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Has the hallucination problem in AI been solved?

sspl757 about 6 hours ago 34 comments

HI version is available. Content is displayed in original English for accuracy.

My understanding that all AI can, and will hallucinate. I get downvoted for saying this, but no one ever says I'm wrong or cites any source. Perhaps it's more nuanced than that? Please, enlighten me.
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Discussion (34 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

abalashovabout 2 hours ago
The problem hasn't been solved, and, by the very nature of what LLMs are, can't be. However, it has gotten a lot better, as models have got much larger and pretraining more sophisticated.

Part of the difficulty--not in solving, but in discussing--is in defining what a hallucination is. On the face of it, it seems straightforward: an obviously counterfactual claim or manifest error of reasoning. However, it's not always that simple. A lot of what people consider to be hallucinations are misattributions, specious diagnoses, strangely lopsided preoccupations, eccentric design choices, needlessly verbose or circuitous output or explanations, a kind of metaphysical conflation of the trivial with the significant, etc.

Terr_12 minutes ago
I prefer to say that it's all hallucinations, we just happen to like some of them.

_______

> In fact [The Bursar] was incurably insane and hallucinated more or less continuously, but by a remarkable stroke of lateral thinking his fellow wizards had reasoned that, in that case, the whole business could be sorted out if only they could find a formula that caused him to hallucinate that he was completely sane.

> This had worked well. There had been a few false starts. For several hours, at one point, he had hallucinated that he was a bookcase. But now he was permanently hallucinating that he was a bursar, and that almost made up for the small side-effect that also led him to hallucinate that he could fly.

The Truth (2000) by Terry Pratchett

kevin061about 1 hour ago
It hasn't and likely never will because it is a structural part of how AI works.

You can see proof of this if you ask it obscure enough questions. That doesn't mean obscure scientific questions, I asked it questions regarding ship fits and modules in EVE Online, which is an extremely well-documented videogame. There are hundreds of online tools to help you for different things, mining yield calculators and more.

Well, ChatGPT just made up almost everything. Very confidently. It couldn't even get the damage types right, I was quite shocked.

Hallucination has only be solved for extremely narrow sets of problems, and only partially. Coding is one of those problems.

dwd40 minutes ago
I don't have a problem with hallucinations, rather the confabulations.

We want AI to make predictions under uncertainty that could be wrong. What we don't need is getting know facts wrong.

One of the best responses I got from ChatGPT was when it said "I don't know", and on questioning it - it responded that it was an unsolved problem and it couldn't objectively take a side iun the argument.

bad_usernameabout 1 hour ago
There has been quite significant progress.

From my experience it has been largely solved for one significant use case which is chatting to frontier models about the reality as described by public knowledge. 2 years ago models would rely on their training data, today they go out of their way trying to look it up on the Internet and verify thoroughly. I have not had a problem for a very long time.

When working off of limited, private/unverifiable context, LLMs still hallucinate, but again, much less than 2 years ago, and more within a "getting confused where a human would easily get confused" range, rather than "outrageously making things up" range.

aezartabout 2 hours ago
We're being forced to use some AI features in our IDE at work these days, and we see it make stuff up all the time. Very unpleasant to work with. It will tell us implementing something a certain way is impossible, when I've implemented it myself that way in the past. It will fabricate reasons why builds are failing. It will make assumptions about database schemas from thin air.

It's like a science fiction writer or an improv actor doing technobabble. If by chance it knows the actual answer it might use it, but even if not it still has to say _something_ that sounds plausible to a layperson. It'll never say it doesn't actually know, because their character it's acting as _should_ know.

bruce511about 3 hours ago
There are two common ways to spot hallucinations. Talk to it about a topic you know well, or implement what it suggests and get an error or failure.

For the first, we're mostly past the point of just "testing". So I don't see that too much anymore. Mostly I still see that though in bug reports generated by AI by someone else. There is usually some underlying bug being reported, but the AI explanation and "helpful suggestion" is typically inaccurate. Generally, suggested fixes are terrible. (They likely work, but fix a symptom not the cause.)

The second still happens, but with much less regularity for me though. It does make mistakes though.

In areas where I'm not as skilled it's very hard to spot errors. When researching general information I'm mostly accepting it on face value.

I find the bug-report thing really interesting. For lots of simple bugs it's great. For more complex things it seems to be very superficial- if a 0 causes an issue here, add a simple guard for 0. There's no depth of understanding why the value is 0 in the first place, when it should be set. If it can (incorrectly) be 0 here, where else might 0 be impacting the code?

This informs my opinion of vibe coded stuff - where there is no skilled human inspection. I expect that code to be of a poor underlying quality. Especially if it's AI changes to an existing human-coded app.

spl757about 3 hours ago
AI drones are being used to autonomously target and kill targets by the Ukraine using technology they have been given. That's real. Right now. That that is happening anywhere on the planet scares me. That's why I keep asking about AI hallucinating, and it's implications when the stakes are life and death.
avadodinabout 2 hours ago
The "AIs" being used by these drones have little to do with ChatGPT at the moment. And you should be more worried about "AIs" that do aim at the intended target, anyways.
emjabout 2 hours ago
You have to be specific. You only have vague comments about your own thoughts. We had this discussion with Tomahawks in the ninetees, it is not an easy one. This is like answering how long is a string.

IMHO This feels like a troll, OP have several comments about evil Ukrainian AI drones. I feel it is hard to have a naunced discussion if you only diss one part.

Your question is asking for easy technical opinions about a subject where you seem to have no technical knowledge.

mukundzzhaabout 1 hour ago
We can check it by asking it about the topics we knew. If it says correct many times , then it has less chance of assuming that this model hallucinates. If it gives wrong answer many times we can take it as frequently hallucinating model.
add-sub-mul-divabout 4 hours ago
AI will never be fully reliable, and people never will be. But AI is wrong in much less predictable and stable ways, and with much less accountability.
spl757about 5 hours ago
I'm hoping for more than anecdotes. I believe AI is not ready for what it's being used for, but all I get are downvotes and no citations. Maybe all of you are just scared to say it out loud?
FromTheFirstInabout 3 hours ago
No one is scared of saying something anonymously online, and wondering if that’s what’s going on is immature and silly. People earnestly disagree with you, but they don’t owe you an argument
spl757about 3 hours ago
I'm asking a legitimate question, and only two people have actually tried to make an argument.

Most, like you, have nothing useful to contribute.

spl757about 3 hours ago
please explain how you have discerned that people earnestly disagree with me?
buffer_overlordabout 6 hours ago
I have t see t hat I a few years
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AIOSAIabout 5 hours ago
I think its solved, with the right setup and model. I couldn't tell u the last time my agent hallucinated. For me I consider it solved. However some dude feeding massive docs into gpt chat and long conversations, It is not solved in this context.
FromTheFirstInabout 3 hours ago
Man there really isn’t a criticism that won’t lead to a booster saying you’re holding it wrong
jimmaswellabout 1 hour ago
It matches the reality of my experience using a good frontier like Sol on high to ultra thinking. If it has any way to verify its work whatsoever, it eventually gets to a working and sanely-engineered solution. Blatant hallucinations making it to the final stages have become extremely rare in my use cases, nonexistent if the model has a valid feedback loop. So yes, I will insist someone is likely "holding it wrong" if they still think SOTA AI is spewing out garbage at this stage when I can have it do something like write entire working kernel module fixes for old MacBooks on a whim with no crashes or flaws observed after months of use.
sjbzbeiks43 minutes ago
I think this is the issue others are having, when you say:

> when I can have it do something like write entire working kernel module fixes for old MacBooks on a whim

They’re not saying it can’t do that, and that’s not proof it doesn’t hallucinate. In fact, having used 6-8 agents at a time for a year plus while writing AI tooling for an AI startup, I can definitely surely tell you that they’re almost inversely correlated as in models that hallucinate a lot sometimes also put out the best most impressive solutions.

I’m definitely not anti AI and I definitely have found a way to make it work very well and I’m content with the work I get out of it (again maxing out several max 20x subs), but I have had sol definitely hallucinate this week and I’m a bit shocked you’re trying to say otherwise.

Listen I know it’s going to be I’m holding it wrong too, but I’ve been reading white papers and research on LLMs for a long time and was definitely at the cutting edge of context engineering, implementing features in our tooling harness a year before they were in codex or Claude.

maybe I am holding it wrong still but but like at some point if I’m holding it wrong who else will be holding it right? Dozens of people? At some point, the technology has to be approachable enough for everyone to have your point of view automatically.

spl757about 5 hours ago
Would you trust it to make life and death decisions? Because it is being used in that context. Drones with AI, armed, and with discretion to choose a target and kill it.
spl757about 3 hours ago
I'm not talking about a hypothetical. I'm talking about Ukraine assymetrically fucking up the Russians with AI drones.
salawatabout 3 hours ago
The types of people using it that way are not concerned with the best interests of anyone but themselves, and arguably not even that except within a very immediate time horizon.
spl757about 3 hours ago
Perhaps you should be concerned about it. I certainly am. This is deployed on the battlefield and has been for months.
ebcodeabout 4 hours ago
My personal opinion: all output from LLMs is hallucinations. The idea that it’s “right” or “wrong”, when stating factual information is really in the eye of the beholder/user. What year did astronauts land on the moon? — is a question that may or may not have a factual answer depending on your own beliefs. Philosophically, you would need to also define what a fact is, or what “not hallucinating” is, to define what a hallucination is. My understanding is that this property of the LLM architecture is innate, and until we have “world model” LLMs, or some other model that reasons from first principles, instead of the current “guess the next word” model, this isn’t going away. Just don’t rely on the for facts.
spl757about 3 hours ago
I'm talking about software being allowed to make the decision to put bullets through a human being without any human in the chain except the dead guy.
defrostabout 3 hours ago
Is this distinct from the hardware in a land mine making the decision to explode shrapnel through a human being without any human in the chain except the dead guy.

Worth noting that both cases indirectly involve the humans that designed devices and the humans that made the placement and trigger condition decisions.

Further:

> AI drones are being used to autonomously target and kill targets by the Ukraine using technology they have been given.

Ukrainian Combat Robot Holds Frontline Position for Six Weeks in Sign of Growing UGV Maturity - https://defenceleaders.com/news/ukrainian-combat-robot-holds...

are remote operated, they allow defenders cover while themselves being out and exposed.

However were they altered to autonomously fire, that would be on the basis of pattern matching in the visible and infra red spectrum - shoot at all hot blobs.

That's more of a trigger threshold setting issue than an LLM hallucination issue, and the danger is on par with any weapon system on auto fire, you really shouldn't approach such things until they are put in a safe off state or have exhausted ammunition.

spl757about 3 hours ago
I guess what I'm really asking is whether or not it's moral and ethical to use AI that targets autonomously? My understanding is that it's being used that way, but I can't back that up and I'll take your word for it if that's not the case. But it is certainly a plausible scenario. Everyone invested in AI seems determined to put it in everything because they need consumers to want to pay for it, and right now they haven't figured out a way to earn back from consumers the over a trillion dollars that has been put into the AI bubble. I don't have much faith that the people with billions invested don't want return on their investment, and I don't think they care about the consequences necessary to get it back.

edit for clarity

spl757about 3 hours ago
yes, yes it absfuckinglutely is. IMHO