HI version is available. Content is displayed in original English for accuracy.
Advertisement
Advertisement
⚡ Community Insights
Discussion Sentiment
52% Positive
Analyzed from 1813 words in the discussion.
Trending Topics
#capital#more#don#rent#theory#rich#profit#income#usury#living

Discussion (44 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
In fact it rather sounds like an intentionally foolish theory invented by someone practicing usury as the only possible reason anyone could disagree with them, and then incorrectly attributed to any opposition to their practice. You can sort of tell this is the case, because if you reverse the theory you get “usury creates wealth while other activities just shuffle it around”, which is a very flattering thing for an usurer to believe.
Unfortunately today usury is so endemic that people can't see any other way of living, even though debt-free publically issued money is an obvious possible solution to many issues we face today. See social credit (canadian, not chinese)
You're suggesting that capital holders restrict the supply of capital so that they can extract rent on it? And if they didn't do that we'd just have unlimited capital and everybody would get to be arbitrarily rich?
Then what do capital holders get out of restricting the supply? Wouldn't they rather be arbitrarily rich instead?
> Every claim on human effort that exits the productive system as rent is a claim that cannot circulate internally, cannot pay workers fairly, cannot fund the next big idea or reduce the cost of the next product.
What? Why? When you pay rent do you think your landlord isn't going to spend that money?
In neoclassical economics, savings never pay off compared to investment. But in the real world, savings have important advantages:
1. They help you sustain longer in the case of strike (be it labor strike or investment strike).
2. They allow you to react to the market (for example, buying a promising startup winner after a competition consolidation) instead of being a first mover.
3. They allow you to price dump rapidly if a competitor threatens oligopoly pricing (usually the status quo), to drive them out of business.
That's why savings give you an actual power, which increases the richer you are.
Also, in my worldview, savings are liquid/reversible investments, while real capital investments are iliquid/irreversible - if you decide to build a factory you're commiting to an irreversible decision, if you buy an index fund, the decision is reversible, so it's basically savings. Making as few irreversible decisions as you can gives you an edge compared to others.
I recommend Keen/Standish paper on the theory of the firm: https://www.paecon.net/PAEReview/issue53/KeenStandish53.pdf
They show that profit-maximizing agents communicating via price-setting only will happily restrict output in order to reach oligopoly prices.
Generally no, though you won't get this answer directly.
Many people prefer to be rich relative to others than arbitrarily rich. If you ask a bunch of random folks if they'd rather be in the middle class in their current country of residence in 2005, or of noble birth in ~1100 CE, you'll get the latter answer _a lot_ despite that being an objectively worse quality of living.
20 years is not ad infinitum.
And much of the popular critique of capitalism is driven by those who don't distinguish between profit and rent, when in fact the near entirely of the extraction that is causing inequality is from rent extraction and not "profit" as used in this piece. Especially when it comes to real estate, which is most people's largest expense, growing, and one of the biggest political challenges we face today. (Broad homeownership has created a lot of people that benefit from increasing residential housing costs, or at least don't see any problems with them).
Glad to see Schumpeter get mentioned, as Schumpeterian rents are perhaps defensible for a while, I think.
Sure. In aggregate. See also: "Tragedy of the Commons" and "Everyone Will Not Just"<https://emilybook.org/2024/11/03/everyone-will-not-just/>
Without coordinated effort to limit that extraction it will continue until the resource is exhausted.
An obvious conclusion is that one function of Government is to coordinating how much extraction is permissible or enforce fair dealing. Capital has spent a great deal of your collected rent persuading people that this idea is wrong and would lead to terrible harms.
Something that I noticed that might help clarify things: I think the author mixes two phenomena together: (1) Rents and (2) subjective vs objective property rights.
Rents were pervasive in the middle ages. There are lots of black legends about medieval Europe, but we don't have to tell golden legends about it either. The whole economy if medieval Europe relied on people controlling land, then demanding goods and service in exchange for its use. That is Rent! It was often exceedingly exploitative and harsh!
What changed in the modern era was a the decline of objective property rights. The way property was treated in law and fact went from "this is my farm, which is mine for farming, and it comes with these rights and obligations. That's the commons. I have these rights to it and these obligations to my lord and his other subjects in how I use it." This changed to "this is my property with which I can do what I see fit. I have no objective obligations to anyone else." Subjective property rights also existed before capitalism, but they completely eclipsed objective right in the early modern period. This increased economic productivity and growth on a scale that was not thought possible, but also, as the author notes, had serious negative consequences.
The reason that this distinction matters is that you can absolutely abolish subjective property rights and still have rents. You can actually make them worse. If people are being extorted for access to some good, they will not care if it's done by a private company or a public administrator. I don't see how the author's framework of "personal property" overcomes the issue.
Only thing I can think of is moving abroad, but sending lots of young people abroad is not very sustainable from a domestic economy perspective.
Because taking 20% of the former leaves a lot of the population unable to pay for essential living expenses because they effectively have zero of the latter.
What disposable income? When I was younger I had none, I was too busy paying rent and tuition,
I have observed people from the very poor homeless all the way up to multi-millionaires - his observation hold true for the vast majority. Nearly all of them are living paycheck to paycheck despite the massive amount of difference in income.
When you are young investing in education - that is tuition - is the correct call. When you finish school though many people stop investing at all instead of investing in equities.
(Labor theory of value, they got rich by stealing what was rightfully yours, lots of linguistic games, private ownership is the root problem, yada yada...)
They didn't say the words, but they sure painted the picture (plus the usual Marxist game of moving the meaning of words around to keep the grift going).
Modern Capitalism Is Weirder Than You Think: It also no longer works as advertised
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2022/03/how-asset-managers-h...
(https://archive.is/wSmtd)