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Discussion (21 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
But I do know some of the moves are:
"If you don't throw yourself, your wrist/elbow/shoulder/whatever will be dislocated or broken."
And so the student, knowing this, saves themselves. IE the idea of rolling with the punches.
Which is to say, some moves are to be judged on the possible result, not the one you saw.
Whether that applies in this case, I don't know.
Usually that happens during free sparring at exams, where it's more likely that the ukes miss cooperating properly.
Aikido demonstration is cooperative. Uke and nage. Somebody throws and somebody receives the throw. I'm not one of those "Aikido is fake" people, but Aikido has no tournaments and isn't represented in MMA for a reason.
If you're in a real fight and properly distributing your weight, things you see in Aikido just don't happen. That's not shade on Aikido. It's a worthy effort for anyone who wants to devote themselves to it. It's just not a real representation of what happens in combat and this is much more true about Aikido than just about any other martial art you could practice.
The philosophy behind what the submission author wrote is strong. I was pretty moved by it and it effectively communicates what most people call beginner mindset. That mindset has brought me a ton of success in life.
Judo and Jiu Jitsu have Uke and Tori for demonstrations. Same concept. Except when Uke gets thrown, they really get thrown. They will cooperate with the move but they aren’t providing the momentum.
I don’t know if Aikido is “fake”, but I do think it’s more of a performance than a martial art.
Still, the annals of Stand Up, Don't Fall Down comedy eight minutes of Jesse Enkamp entering a Jiu-Jitsu tournament to Prove It Doesn't Work still entertains - the training montage is priceless.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAJ2vt8wUbY
Getting back to Aikido, one master is of the opinion it's not in MMA as its either ineffectual non damaging ritual OR it's high damage, crippling, lethal: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtibobLK56I
If you want to see what competitive throws/takedowns with a kimono/gi look like against live resistance, watch Judo. Example https://youtu.be/fLD87nqwp3Y
For the same but without kimono, watch Greco-Roman. Example https://youtu.be/4Xc-wxNSsTk).
- it's considered very beautiful
- it takes a long time to become fluent in it
- it "expands your mind"
- in theory it can "work on the street" but in practice people reach for other tools
> it's considered very beautiful
Funny, I've heard it described as 'porridge with fingernail clippings', which doesn't seem to me like a description evoking a 'very beautiful' image.
> it takes a long time to become fluent in it
Not more so than many other programming languages. Of course, most people don't start with Lisp, so their frame of reference is off.
> it "expands your mind"
A fairly meaningless statement which is claimed of a great many things. Is Lisp any more or less mind-expanding than, say, marijuana?
> in theory it can "work on the street" but in practice people reach for other tools
What do you mean, 'in theory'? Lisp has been used, in practise, by NASA, for running a robot on Mars: <https://www.corecursive.com/lisp-in-space-with-ron-garret/>. If that isn't 'working on the street', then, by golly, that's a mean street you've got there.
Hopefully not offensive, just my layman observation.
Then Royce Gracie with Brazilian Jujitsu and the very beginnings of UFC came along and completely upended the traditional glamor of movie star Martial Arts for REAL fights against opponents of all sizes (Early UFC didn't have weight classes). Most real fights end up on the ground pretty fast anyway and against larger/stronger opponents you want to be on the ground.
That isn't to say that a black belt in say Karate, or even Aikido wouldn't still be effective in a no-choice self-defense situation, but I'd rather be more proficient in Boxing at that point or one of the many other more modern fighting arts that have grappling as a core.
Shodan black belts in most martial arts mean you can execute 80% of the techniques competently. After shodan you're supposed to perfect them and worry about stuff like when to use one technique and not another...
With age, the emphasis on (2)&(3) diminishes and the focus becomes (1). This is why many martial arts masters toned down their fighting styles over time. With age one needs to focus more on cultivating mind, breathing, balance, awareness, sensitivity, and less on strength and power.
Aikido and Taijiquan/Taichichuan (except the original "hard" Chen style) were uniquely developed for this. So if you think of these as martial arts for self-defence you will be completely disappointed. However training in them allows you to develop certain aspects, specifically sensitivity and awareness, which are vital in real combat.
Aikido does this via defender learning to turn attacker's momentum and Taiji/Taichi does the same via push-hands practice. Depending upon how well you have practiced and internalized this you may/may-not be able to use this in a very limited number of real-world scenarios. Not all conflicts need hard kicking/punching.
All students will do well to study the concepts/theories/ideas behind these arts and interpret/adapt them for use in their own lives.