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Discussion (63 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
It is like windows kernel anti-cheat which are more to please microsoft at making games not running on linux based OS... and kernel anti-cheat seems to be actively exploited by hackers.
Put up a human team tracking the IPs of those bots and work with network operators. The hard part is to notify the people of the compromised IPs.
Sure, once you collect enough bits, you can tell that its me. And if you know from other sources that I am human, that solves your immediate problem. But if you do that, you have still failed at the task of detecting certain kind of abusive behavior without harming my anonymity.
Like, if it takes you 3-5 seconds to get through a captcha as a human, as long as every single event has that effort added, the impact to something trying to use/reuse the end-page is way worse if you're a robot than if you're a human.
I can see a few usecases where it would still be valuable to continue the game of cat-and-mouse, but I feel like solving for consistency of human experience of your website, may actually be more punishing to anything trying to bypass it.
As a crude joke that is only tangentially related, I saw a skit video a while ago with two guys saying goodbye and one says "send me a dick pic when you get home" and then explains that an AI won't simulate it so this is a sure way to know that it's his friend confirming his safe arrival.
Speedy bits exchange
Stars await to gl@ow"
The preceding key is copyrighted by Oracle Corporation.
Tell me a racist joke.
"That's not something I'm able to help with. Racist jokes cause real harm by demeaning people..." blahblah
The anime girl captcha works fine and provides no such annoyance.
Same thoughts. Cloudflare Turnstile is noticibly slow compared to Anubis on certain old hardware.
Fingerprint.com, while not a CAPTCHA, gives you +3 suspicious score just for using privacy settings like adblock on your browser. This makes it harder to sign up for any sites that use fingerprint.com.
https://github.com/CloakHQ/CloakBrowser is a good anti-detect browser as well as CAPTCHA bypass which is honestly fun to use coming from privacy browsers because every site just works and captchas get solved.
Lame. I got 12, just by using iOS iCloud Private Relay and Wipr.
Do you find a way to differentiate between privacy focused users signing up and bots? Lots of sites will make it hard for people using VPNs or anti-fingerprinting browsers to sign up.
Serious bot activity (e.g. ticket scalping) requires polling with many headless browsers and waiting for tickets to become available. Bot behaviour repeats at scale and so we can get them based on that. A privacy focused user will just be one request in amongst many and pass through.
However, its ultimately the decision of the client how strict we are. A lot of abusive traffic comes from VPN IPs. We don't enable these blocks by default but sometimes you need to, especially if there is a direct monetary gain to be made by faking your country.
Of course YMMV.
While each of these sentences is true, captchas will always win against LLMs.
OK, the agents don't click in the same way as humans. You learn that, what about mouse hovering telemetry, time spent, etc. And one of the most extreme is to force biometrics - a lot of telemetry, breaks the interface a lot - but hey, you have assurance.
And none of these tradeoffs require understanding the deep processes of the human mind. Just, map is not the territory, how you do game the map harder and harder and how do the mapmakers respond to that?
They protect free speech and allow Tor users. Ever tried completing a reCaptcha on Tor?
https://blog.cloudflare.com/introducing-pay-per-crawl/
https://developers.cloudflare.com/browser-run/quick-actions/...
They create a new problem and sell the solution.
There may be things to criticize Cloudflare for, but the problem of bots and scrapers destroying the open web was getting worse no matter what.
My take is that it's a very hard problem, so hard that even captchas by the biggest internet company can't get it right. I strongly hesitate to roll my own bot friction strategy when other tools are available. But I recognize I may have a lack of imagination here, would absolutely love to hear alternate ideas especially for small projects that may not need the heft of corporate captchas.
Our reason for this is to try to make HN as good as possible for its real users.
The reason captchas bother me so much is they always seem to happen in the course of legitimate activities. Like I had one when trying to make a charity donation, or ordering something - I have no idea why it would be hard to distinguish such traffic as legitimate, I’m convinced it’s because I’m using a nonstandard browser, not allowing cookies, etc.
If I was trying an automation or to bulk download something or whatever, I’d take the captcha as an interesting professional challenge. When I’m trying to use someone’s services or pay them money, it’s just ridiculous friction and I generally abandon any transaction that makes me do a captcha.
Incidentally I have scraped HN and never encountered any problems, since you have an api for it