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Discussion (28 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

NelsonMinar5 minutes ago
If you like the idea of smart corvids, Adrian Tchaikovsky's scifi novel "The Children of Memory" is a fun read.

https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/60850767-children-of-...

JohnMakinabout 3 hours ago
One of the craziest behaviors I have seen was from a murder of American crows in a big city area sidewalk I walk down frequently - occasionally, I have observed homeless and vagrants throwing stuff at them, because sometimes they sleep under the powerlines where the crows like to perch and I think the crows defecate on them or something.

It's well known they can carry grudges, but one day, as I was walking down the sidewalk, a pretty sizable rock smacked the pavement next to me, seemingly out of nowhere. If it had hit my head I would have been hurt. I finally look up and see a big crow staring directly down at me - it had dropped it from the power lines, it had seemingly been intentional, maybe as a warning, I don't know. I attributed it to malice towards the vagrants that harass them.

I was amazed at how much intelligence it would take to 1) form a grudge 2) form intent to threaten/harm, 3) formulate a plan using a weapon with cause -> effect to execute intent, 4) wait for opportunity.

I have observed a lot of very intelligent behaviors from these birds but that was the wildest one. I have seen it happen once since, so I'm convinced it isn't an accident.

helterskelterabout 1 hour ago
Crows in country will wait for a newborn deer to be left alone in a field by their mothers shortly after birth to peck the baby's eyes out so it dies and the crow can eat it later. My neighbor had told me about this happening, and maybe a month later I saw a fawn with its eyes pecked out shortly after it had died. The doe just sat at the edge of the field by it all night. So sad, but really smart of the crows.

Crows have also been known to alert predators like wolves to easy prey so they can pick the remains.

ifwinterco21 minutes ago
They also do this to lambs, they're smart but evil
prerokabout 2 hours ago
I remember reading an article in National Geographic of how crow's brains are much more interconnected than is the norm in mammals, i.e. IIRC they have a higher density of synapses between neurons. From that article, it seems that the usual brain weight vs. body weight to determine intelligence, which seems can be used to approximate intelligence in different species of mammals, cannot be used for birds (or at least crows, which the article was focusing on).

In other words, they seem to achieve better results with smaller brains than we thought. And yes, crows (in EU) do exhibit some pretty intelligent behavior.

CSMastermindabout 1 hour ago
I'm not an expert in the area but have read a bunch on this topic to try and understand it better. Bird brains and human brains are structured very differently. Birds are much more like GPUs with independent distributed processing happening in parallel. Mammals have these big bidirectional layers where signals are constantly propagating up and down in a big connected computation.
bruckieabout 1 hour ago
I wonder what the energy/evolutionary cost of densely-connected brains is. If it's advantageous, why are crows exceptional?
xeonmcabout 1 hour ago
Maybe they require the equivalent of advanced EUV machines to make?
IAmBroomabout 1 hour ago
It could simply be an evolutionary "discovery", with no particular advantage over our "brain model". Evolution doesn't seek out optima; it simply encourages genetic structures that improve odds of reproductive success.

Or, to put it another way: if corvid genetics happened upon a brain type that promoted their survival, it doesn't matter if it was "better" or "worse" than the path the monkey/hominid brains took. Genetics took the first bus going in that direction.

UncleOxidantabout 2 hours ago
They're even apparently able to pass their grudges along to other crows who did not have first-hand experience with the subject of the grudge.
consumer451about 1 hour ago
phendrenad212 minutes ago
Oh, crows are WAY smarter than that. If one tried to drop a stone on you, it was because it didn't like your online comments.
fritzoabout 3 hours ago
By "sizable rock" do you mean large pebble or small boulder?
JohnMakinabout 3 hours ago
A little larger than a golf ball.
IAmBroomabout 1 hour ago
Something that produces a loud exclamation in a movie character, but possible permanent brain damage IRL.
cortesoftabout 2 hours ago
My understanding is crows can recognize individuals, so I would think back to what you did to piss off that crow, or that crow's friends.
bitwizeabout 2 hours ago
As demonstrated in humans, the ability to recognize individuals is little impediment to resentment based on group membership.
JohnMakinabout 2 hours ago
I was guessing just a general preference towards anyone in their area. I have certainly never done anything harmful towards them.
shimmanabout 1 hour ago
Crows have been known to harass distinct individuals over others, even going as far as to teach other crows about this person.

I wonder if this was an elder crow whose eyesight has decreased with age and gave out the wrong descriptions to their friends. :D

Aboutplantsabout 1 hour ago
Wonderful timing. Me and my daughter just started to feed and befriend a crow in our backyard. We started by putting out a few pieces of cat foot, shaking the plastic container and tapping on the table we put it on to signal to the crow we had put out food. Within only 2 days the crow has learned to come and swoop down for his meal within just a minute or two after he does his normal fly-by passes. Now only about 5 days in, and we have the crow coming right down to eat as we put out the food, not much of a care that we are there. My daughter wants to start training it to bring trinkets or coins so that is probably next on the agenda.

One thing I didn’t not really account for is that now in the morning when I step outside our new friend really lays on the noises of excitement as he knows a meal is about to be served.

IAmBroomabout 1 hour ago
I'm hoping that is a typo for cat food, instead of training your cattle on horrifically scavenged body parts.
noelwelshabout 2 hours ago
Equipping cats and dogs with talking buttons (see, for example, https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLBh-BXgsO9IjhN-thTLvm... or https://www.youtube.com/@floundercat) has shown me there is a lot more going in their little heads than I suspected. There are examples of cats describing their dreams, or worrying about what will happen in the future, or theorizing about the nature of the world (in a very naive way).

Birds have higher neural density than mammals (https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1517131113) so can pack a lot into their tiny heads. I do wonder what they'd have to say, if given the chance.

tejohnsoabout 2 hours ago
Chasing a bird of lesser intelligence so that it slams into an office building window seems especially cruel.
fortran77about 2 hours ago
Birds chase coyotes so they slam into the sides of cliff walls, sometimes even painting a fake tunnel to fool the coyote.
drcongo4 minutes ago
Thanks to Merlin Bird ID, I've got rather into birds in the past few years. We have a robin and blackbird that hang out in the garden with us, seemingly unafraid. A couple of months back I bought a camera feeder [0] but we've still only had three bird types that visit - a coal tit who comes fairly infrequently but moves so fast the camera could easily be missing him, some amazing jackdaws who seem to take turns on the feeder, and some Eurasian magpies who are absolute fucking arseholes. I made the mistake of putting a mealworm / seed mix in the feeder once, and the mealworms were so prized by the magpies that they worked out how to empty it completely within minutes of me filling it, throwing all the seed that they weren't interested in on the floor. I've stopped putting mealworms in it now, but now they empty it just to make sure there's none in there. I'm going to have to take it down and try to fashion some kind of grate to make it much harder to get the seeds out.

[0] https://naturespy.org - not the best resolution, but plenty good enough for up close video of the birds. I did a fair bit of research and loved the fact that these guys are a social enterprise who put their profits back into conservation projects. Highly recommended.

cubefoxabout 1 hour ago
ball_of_lintabout 3 hours ago
Probably Grip?
jujube333 minutes ago
Corvid-19 ?