The Defeat of Nuclear Deterrence

thisisnotauser•35 minutes ago

This article is absurd. They make a credible claim that nuclear deterrence through behavioral norms has failed, and then go on to conclude that the best alternative is ... Nuclear deterrence through behavioral norms. Has the author read their own article?

Supermancho•about 1 hour ago

> The Ukrainian operation was a spectacular example of a wider trend: nuclear deterrence is not working

This article reads like clickbait. It ignores the context of the conflict in service of doomerism. It's vapid.

The conflict was about resources. Russia got what it wanted and stopped. People may think the war is about more than that, but it wasn't and isn't from Russia's perspective.

The incident described, was a guerrilla attack. A conventional attack that would provoke a nuclear response, from any nuclear country, would entail taking land from Russia (or a risk of national ground being gained) by a foreign force, capable of colonizing. That's what conventional means, not some checklist like "it must include tanks". Military losses are military losses during a war. Where they occur is incidental.

fractallyte•34 minutes ago

Correction: russia was stopped.

Odesa is still on the cards: one of the most important ports on the Black Sea, and a long-time cultural and historic prize.

And Putin wants control of the entire Black Sea coast, and Moldova. Furthermore there are clear signs of aggression toward the Baltics, which may be interpreted as preparation for a similar invasion.

Supermancho•3 minutes ago

> Correction: russia was stopped.

I don't think that's historically correct. They stopped after taking the natural gas and oil fields they were interested in. The idea that they want Odesa or need more ports on the Black Sea is a narrative or unsupported supposition at best.

Havoc•about 3 hours ago

The deterrence could weaken but I suspect a single use of a nuke could (assuming it doesn't MAD) bring back deterrence by normalising use somewhat.

If you think about post hiroshima...I don't think anyone doubted the US was willing to wipe out cities

So not entirely convinced it's dead

rainworld•29 minutes ago

It’s conceivable that Russia could force the West to back out of the proxy war. But then they’d get proliferation in Europe, Taiwan, South Korea, and other places. And Usrael would very likely use nukes against Iranian missile cities. (Conversely, first use against Iran would give Russia license etc.) Apart from general global instability and uncertainty this might unleash.

So, it’s not hard to see why they haven’t—so far. And why they are pursuing their (slow and costly, sure) conventional military, economical, and demographic long-term neutering of Ukraine. And let’s not forget the enormous economic/budgetary cost to the EU.

Also, Russia retains a number of ways to escalate inside of Ukraine: bridges, dams, depopulation of frontline cities. China could finally abandon their stance of being mostly neutral.

The problem is that Ukraine/West keep escalating and the day when Russia’s calculus changes may yet come.

fractallyte•23 minutes ago

Since when has Ukraine's defense against the russian invasion been a "proxy war"? Your very first sentence destroyed any credibility the rest of your comment had (not that there was much worth reading anyway).

The Defeat of Nuclear Deterrence

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