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#don#trump#mythos#government#congress#access#party#free#republican#power

Discussion (119 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

kristopolousabout 1 hour ago
Next time someone tells you this is the party of free market and small government, I guess you just laugh now?
GolfPopperabout 1 hour ago
I've been laughing when people tell me that for my entire adult life. It remains a pretty funny bit of dark humor, though.
seemaze6 minutes ago
Having an a collective economy governed by the “free market” is like having a pile of stones governed by gravity. There exists a primary directive force, but if you want to construct a cathedral or a bomb shelter, you need to impose some constraints, lest you revert to the angle of repose.
Gagarin191726 minutes ago
Now?
az22638 minutes ago
Not just that, Biden administration started with some AI regulation that the Trump administration nixed, and then outright banning models. Lunacy.
paulddraper18 minutes ago
Then cry as you look for the free market/small government leaders.
nutjob235 minutes ago
Also free speech/the first amendment and various other rights people are supposed to have but don't in practice.
DANmode9 minutes ago
Fourth Amendment, through corporate data purchase or exfiltration.
bilsbie16 minutes ago
Which party is?
iAMkenough9 minutes ago
The one currently running the show.
paytonjjones32 minutes ago
That's always been a relative, rather than absolute statement.

Genuine question: if Democrats take power, do you expect them to be more interventionist or less interventionist with respect to AI? Bernie's jockeying leads me to suspect "more", but I could very well be wrong.

(FWIW I personally think modern AI falls in the small realm of potentially dangerous technologies that merit careful, ideally bipartisan, government oversight)

brokencode24 minutes ago
I think they’d try to get something through Congress to regulate the industry in a rules-based way.

The current admin flies by the seat of their pants and at least creates the perception of political decision making.

FireBeyond15 minutes ago
> the perception of political decision making

The what? More like "the whims of an eighty year old in cognitive decline and those wishing to curry or keep his favor" - quite an expansive definition of "political decision making".

4lx8722 minutes ago
We don’t have to guess. Democrats had a pragmatic policy under Biden — which was rescinded by Trump when he took office.

https://bidenwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefing-room/statement...

andsoitis1 minute ago
How well does it stand up to Mythos?
jknoepfler27 minutes ago
Ever since I've been conscious (the 80s), it's been the party of fear, violence and greed. They've consistently nominated actual clowns for positions of power. B-movie actor Ronald Reagan... Dan Quayle... Sarah Palin... the current, truly stunning iteration of absolute moral and intellectual bankruptcy TWICE after he killed hundreds of thousands of people due to COVID/vaccine skepticism and staged a violent attack on the capitol after losing a democratic election.

Free market? Small government? Big police state, trillions in defense contractor grift, unsustainable tax breaks to the wealthiest leading to massive spending deficits... all while doing everything to erode access to education, healthcare and basic services.

It is just utterly baffling to me. I'm... well along the spectrum... so people not responding correctly to obvious information is just something I've gotten used to but just... wow.

edit: typo

danans4 minutes ago
> It is just utterly baffling to me. I'm... well along the spectrum... so people not responding correctly to obvious information is just something I've gotten used to but just... wow.

People get quite a kick out of seeing people they don't like get hurt. They can stay entertained by that for a long time until it bites them.

Only now is it finally biting with the collapse of the rural medical clinics, the war induced spike in the price of gasoline, etc.

That's probably playing a big part in the seeming shift in the electorate in every election.

ryanarabout 1 hour ago
its all trump, he is a megalomaniac, not affiliated with any party but his own
afavour38 minutes ago
They have affiliated themselves to him. Watch, within a month of Democrats being back in power they’ll be harping small government, denigrating the national debt they ballooned themselves. There’s no reason to help them attempt to disavow it.
gkoberger34 minutes ago
Trump has an 87% approval rating amongst Republicans as of the last poll I can find.

While Trump is a megalomanic and does whatever he wants, he has the mandate of the Republican party, whose elected officials could choose at any moment to end this by withdrawing support.

Don't let them off the hook.

ryanmcbride32 minutes ago
it's actually the entire party that's propping him up. If it was just trump he would be living on the street.
servercobraabout 1 hour ago
And yet the rest of the party falls in behind him.
keyle41 minutes ago
It seems people can flip that coin whenever it suits them.
malcolmgreaves40 minutes ago
The entire Republican party in all branches of government is supporting Trump. His politics and the Republican party politics are one and the same. The last election the party did not have a platform because, quite literally, they said that whatever Trump says _is_ their platform.
jknoepfler17 minutes ago
He's a Republican backed by the Republican establishment funded by Republican donors and massively influential in Republican primaries. Republicans voted him into power twice. Republicans pushed his voter fraud narrative. Republicans embraced his vaccine skepticism and killed countless Americans. Republicans voted for his ICE policies that murdered two citizens of my home state.

Republicans caused this disaster and are all, each and every, individually morally responsible for putting Trump in power.

Republican voters, Republican politicians, Republican donors and the Republican political machine.

They picked the losing side of history and they can sink with it.

Klathmonabout 1 hour ago
But it's not just him, it's the entire party aggressively supporting him and everything he does.
atlgator39 minutes ago
They passed one major piece of legislation since he took office and it was loaded with pork to get everyone onboard. I wouldn't call that aggressive. The Right is very fractured right now.
jmyeet19 minutes ago
Considering there's no such thing as a "free market" I've been laughing for a real long time. Markets require regulation and enforcement to function.

The US government was created to protect the interests of rich, white, male slave owners. And if you look at Louisiana State Penintentiary (often called "Angola"), which is essentialy a Southern plantation with forced labor, you realize not as much has changed as you might otherwise think.

paulddraper15 minutes ago
The it did a pretty shit job of it. Within 100 years it was killing hundreds of thousands to fight against that purpose.
mullingitover3 minutes ago
The point of slavery was money, and the point of money was power. By the time of the civil war the real power for the ruling class was coming from industrialization.
tracerbulletxabout 2 hours ago
Imposing a licensing system on models for limiting domestic use should require an act of congress but I mean obviously we're well past that red line.
coffeemugabout 2 hours ago
Regulatory agencies limit uses of other products without acts of congress-- cigarettes, vapes, drugs, pesticides, chemicals, explosives. Even firearms, despite a constitutional amendment! Why not models? (Note I am not arguing it's a good idea; I'm making a narrow argument that there is precedent.)

EDIT: I agree that it should require an act of Congress to explicitly delegate this power.

tzsabout 2 hours ago
> Regulatory agencies limit uses of other products without acts of congress-- cigarettes, vapes, drugs, pesticides, chemicals, explosives.

Every one of those is by a regulatory agency that was explicitly empowered by Congress to do such regulation.

to11mtmabout 1 hour ago
until it isn't, i.e. certain rulings over the last couple years...
sigmarabout 2 hours ago
The ATF was created by an act of congress. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_Control_Act_of_1968
standardUserabout 2 hours ago
All of the agencies responsible for those regulations were created by and get their funding from Congress. Currently, they're asleep at the wheel. Or a better idiom might be "cowering in the corner".
GolfPopperabout 1 hour ago
I would say, "sitting smugly astride the monster's back, confident that they will never be fed to it".
UncleEntityabout 2 hours ago
Fairly certain all those have "acts of congress" attached to them. I mean, it used to take a constitutional amendment to make something illegal but now we have tons of agencies responsible for regulating all the things.

Plus, they're relying on the "math is a weapon" law to ban "export" of the models.

delichonabout 2 hours ago
I don't like it one bit, but Congress passed the Arms Export Control Act (22 USC 2778) in the Ford administration and it has been applied to software since at least the Clinton administration.
skywhopperabout 1 hour ago
It has never taken a constitutional amendment to make something illegal.
jiggawattsabout 2 hours ago
"Malboro cigarettes may once again be sold, but Newport remains banned for everyone except large purchasers that have paid the appropriate bri... fees."
vereloabout 2 hours ago
None of those things are knowledge. I think theres something specific around limiting access to knowledge and capabilities that makes this feel insidious.
Jblx2about 1 hour ago
Information is covered by ITAR, so that's not new. You can illegally export information about an ITAR covered item by just allowing a foreign national the potential to see an item. They don't even have to prove the foreign national actually did see it.

https://www.ecfr.gov/current/title-22/chapter-I/subchapter-M...

az22637 minutes ago
And even if a court places an injunction on the ban, it's possible Anthropic will still choose to keep it unavailable.
motbus3about 1 hour ago
I wonder what kind of emergency will happen when real elections get around
actionfromafarabout 1 hour ago
Overturning the Chevron doctrine is good because it stops lawful people from doing things we don't like. We aren't bound by laws, so we can do whatever we want.

-- GOP probably

tiahuraabout 1 hour ago
They did. Defense Production Act (50 U.S.C. § 4511 );Export Control Reform Act, 50 U.S.C. § 4812 are just two of them.
naturalmovement31 minutes ago
Sad but not surprising the one comment providing real substantive facts is being downvoted into the grey and buried under mountains of sperging TDS.

To wit:

> The Export Control Reform Act of 2018 (ECRA) is a U.S. federal law that authorizes the President to control exports for national security and foreign policy purposes, replacing the previous Export Administration Act of 1979.

Passed with nearly unanimous support of both houses of Congress and signed into law.

tchallaabout 1 hour ago
Do you remember the export controls on Covid vaccine material during the height of coronavirus? I do
andrewchambersabout 1 hour ago
This seems like it will have pretty huge negative affects on startups needing to compete with 'trusted partners'
A_D_E_P_Tabout 1 hour ago
Startups don't have as much money to spend on lobbying and gifts, though.
slashdaveabout 1 hour ago
Well... there are crypto startups, and perhaps a generous definition of "money"
ares623about 1 hour ago
Will startups be even a thing now that the VCs obviously just need to funnel all their money to 2 or so companies ad-infinitum for guaranteed returns.
airstrikeabout 1 hour ago
The single most important question to be discussed on this website right now.
andy99about 1 hour ago
Other than maybe some in-the-moment cybersec wrappers, is this really true? Does anyone think a startup with a good product is going to be materially disadvantaged by not having access to an incrementally better security focused LLM release? It’s lots of fun to pretend it’s some step-change that’s too dangerous for general release, but in real life it’s not conferring some massive advantage that any real startup would need to compete. Almost everyone would be best just to ignore it and keep building.

(Just to be clear, I think the gatekeeping is ridiculous, especially given the above)

afavour36 minutes ago
That kind of gets to the absurdity of it. Either it’s a wildly powerful next generation model with incredible capabilities and thus needs to be limited… or it’s another progressive enhancement like we’ve seen already and limiting access to it makes no sense.
paytonjjones17 minutes ago
I don't think that follows.

Say you had a perfectly smooth progressive chain from rocks to spears to guns to nuclear weapons. When it comes to government restrictions, you still have to choose to draw lines somewhere, right?

ares62321 minutes ago
The enemy is both all-powerful and pathetic, at the same time, all the time.
mlinseyabout 1 hour ago
I understand why Anthropic might not want to fight this particular one in court, because they're trying to convince the administration to let them move forward.

But would another company who is not on the trusted partner list and has less to lose taking on the admin have standing to sue here? On the basis of the export control being illegal and this putting their business at a disadvantage vs. competitors with access

intrasight27 minutes ago
They could just ignore Trump as he has no authority to so limit a private company.
mlinsey9 minutes ago
The labs will not just ignore the order, there are too many other levers they can try to pull to mess with those companies. Just for some examples, think about the number of employees reliant on visas that could be revoked, the government contracts that the hyperscalers hosting them that could be canceled, the certifications that all the data centers need to be hooked up to the grid, the tariffs that could be put on critical components, the IPOs that need to be approved by regulators, the bill introduced in Congress to seize 50% of their equity...

Lots of these moves would and should be struck down in court as an arbitrary and capricious use of administrative power. Some of them might not be, and in the meantime you're signing up for tons of trouble. A trillion-dollar company does not simply go to war with the US government.

A more mid-sized company that's not so intertwined, but not so small that they can't get a good legal team, might be another story.

alanwreath33 minutes ago
I’m not sure what the US government is trying to do. At first it seems like they are just trying to stifle some company that said no. Now they are just doing free publicity. It’s like never before have I wanted to try something out as much as this.

They’re in effect saying “nothing else is as powerful as what Anthropic put out”. Even though that might not really be the case it’s what it sounds like.

bit_economist15 minutes ago
They don't seem to be singling out and targeting Anthropic, but instead playing gatekeeper on AI and R&D that they don't own. Another example from today: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48690101
drcode19 minutes ago
they're flailing is what they're doing
Hawkenfallabout 2 hours ago
This appears to be only for Mythos 5 access, NOT Fable 5.
irthomasthomasabout 1 hour ago
So only 100 companies have exclusive access to frontier AI.
sourthymeabout 2 hours ago
Aren't these the same models?
qsxfthnkp2322about 1 hour ago
Fable was available to me as a normal person using Claude.ai

Mythos never was and I don’t think that’s changing.

ryan_n26 minutes ago
Until the chinese make a comparable open source model at some point
aesthesiaabout 1 hour ago
Under the hood, yes, but Mythos had more relaxed safeguards and was/is only available to a subset of approved customers under Project Glasswing, similar to the situation with GPT-5.6 now.
paxysabout 1 hour ago
Mythos doesn't have the strict safeguards of Fable and is only accessible by a very small number of pre-approved companies.
Alien1Being11 minutes ago
Don't start to rely on it .

The US might remove access next month in a fit of pique.

The Chinese models look increasingly more reliable and safer.

avaer23 minutes ago
I wonder if the Founding Fathers knew about AI, they would include it in the 2nd?

The spirit is to provide effective tools for the people to resist federal military tyranny, and Mythos seems like it would be a good tool to defend against that, for so many reasons.

truthbe20 minutes ago
Open source should create a new license where it specifically doesn't allow release to these "trusted partners".
SwellJoeabout 1 hour ago
"I have determined that appropriate safeguards are in place to permit certain trusted partners to access the Claude Mythos 5 Model"

I assume "trusted partners" means, "companies that have bribed Trump an appropriate amount". A few million for the inauguration, a few million for the ballroom, a few million on a movie about Melania, the don wants a taste.

__natty__about 2 hours ago
And we get the news the same time OpenAI releases 5.6. What a coincidence?
mrandishabout 1 hour ago
I think they kind of had to since they allowed OpenAI to do a 5.6 "preview to trusted parties" today. The other driver is that the DoD/NSA wanted to get access to Mythos again. I figure OAI will now do several weeks of 'preview' like Anthropic did with Mythos. When OAI wants to release 5.6 wider to actually start making money with it, I expect Fable will get approved the same day.

Back when the administration hit Mythos/Fable with the surprise ban, I figured this would be the endgame. They'd keep Anthropic tied up until a competitor had a roughly comparable model ready, then gate them the same.

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olalondeabout 1 hour ago
It feels the U.S. is moving closer to a textbook definition of crony capitalism. Really sad but unsurprising with the current administration.
kdawag30 minutes ago
To the surprise of absolutely nobody following the news
naturalmovement20 minutes ago
80% of the irrationally angry comments here have zero clue how export controls work and is giving me serious Dunning Kruger vibes.

Please go read US history before sounding off on this topic. These laws have existed for decades.

gensym14 minutes ago
Just because a policy is legal doesn't mean it cannot be disastrous.
outside1234about 1 hour ago
Is there a list of the partners that get access? That should be public, right?
mikestorrent38 minutes ago
Bless your heart
sscaryterryabout 2 hours ago
I thought Fable was a "safer" Mythos?!
dchftcsabout 2 hours ago
I suppose the point is that Mythos was released to a smaller set of partners anyway and Fable is for the masses.
standardUser24 minutes ago
Meanwhile, China is pushing the World Artificial Intelligence Cooperation Organization (WAICO), which, in the face of internal divisions and impotent leadership among Western nations, could prove to be the first global regime that China gets to build and lead.
Havoc23 minutes ago
One more aspect where the US can no longer be counted on.

Let's hope this creates a bit more fire under the asses of other countries

Henchman21about 1 hour ago
This is what “stacking the deck” looks like
nozzlegearabout 2 hours ago
Wowee, just happens to be on the same day of OpenAI's Sol announcement. How convenient for Dario and Anthropic!
__natty__about 1 hour ago
That’s exactly what I was thinking. Feels like someone is playing a high-stakes game, putting on a show involving the US government.
Aeolunabout 1 hour ago
This should perhaps not be surprising considering the president.
jimmydoeabout 1 hour ago
Congrats sama. Such a great sophisticated 5d chess move.
llelouch28 minutes ago
Please explain. Do you think Altman wanted this to catch-up?
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pertymcpertabout 2 hours ago
Why would they allow Mythos but not Fable? Fable is the one with more guardrails.
layer8about 1 hour ago
They only allow it for specific companies and agencies, which are trusted with the less restricted model. The general public is still not trusted to use Fable, apparently.
nozzlegearabout 2 hours ago
To quote famed businessman and philosopher Eugene Krabs: "Money."
aryonocoabout 1 hour ago
Land of the free, land of the brave. Free market. Freedom of speech. Market economy.

These words don’t mean what they use to anymore. Newspeak is in full swing. Words still sound the same and are written in the same way but now mean something completely different. If Mao and Stalin were alive, they would be nodding approvingly.

wasting_timeabout 1 hour ago
Free for me, not for thee!

I hope the Chinese models catch up soon so I can stop contributing to the American economy.

jauntywundrkindabout 2 hours ago
* to some US companies.

Asterisk the size of a Mac truck.

Also this administration having say over who gets access to what AI is just so much more grift corruption and picking your favorites / destroying others, for these incdecent undemocratic in American grifters who've seized our state.

wolvoleoabout 1 hour ago
If this is the way things are now, isn't that going to crash the AI stocks? All those trillions dumped into it probably weren't with the expectation that it could only be sold to a handful of select US agencies and corporations.
thrwaway55about 1 hour ago
They are all private aren't they? There's nothing to crash since the valuations were all made up funny raise numbers anyway. A donation to the right person likely removes the restrictions
bayarearefugeeabout 1 hour ago
> If this is the way things are now, isn't that going to crash the AI stocks?

Maybe, maybe not. Tech stocks are mostly vibes-based now, reality isn't really a concern for them.

zuzululuabout 2 hours ago
should see 5.6 any day now
tristanjabout 2 hours ago
enraged_camelabout 2 hours ago
@dang can you change it?
frogpersonabout 2 hours ago
Who needs freedom of speech anyway? I'm just glad the trump admin is looking out for by best interests. /s
vlian208810 minutes ago
>Who needs freedom of speech anyway?

I vividly recall that freedom of speech is racist now, so good riddance.

truthbeabout 1 hour ago
Sarcasm Detected, -40 Ameripoints have been deducted from your account. Have a nice day!
paxysabout 1 hour ago
TL;DR - OpenAI and Anthropic are both allowed to ship their most powerful models to a small number of companies pre-approved by Trump.
skywhopperabout 2 hours ago
Why post a content free link to Twitter for this?