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#students#home#exam#model#education#piece#paper#don#cheating#more

Discussion (17 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

michaelfm12111 minute ago
The problem isn't AI, it's that you gave a take-home exam expected no one to cheat.
pants213 minutes ago
When you're a student in a competitive program at a top university, graded on a curve, and you know your fellow classmates are cheating with AI, you have little choice but to do the same. Especially when jobs for new grads are harder to come by and there's more pressure to also go above and beyond with internships and side projects during your time in school. There's no way to compete without cheating.
mariusor8 minutes ago
> you have little choice

I personally disagree with that very hard. Deontology begins at home.

danny_codesabout 1 hour ago
Damn that's crazy. Guess the take home test is dead now.

I never understood this behavior from undergrads though, you're paying so much for an education and then you just skip the education part? Why bother?

stackskiptonabout 1 hour ago
>you're paying so much for an education and then you just skip the education part? Why bother?

Because you are viewing the motivation of college wrong for most people. For most people, the purpose of college is to get piece of paper that will open up higher salary opportunities. Ergo, they are just doing whatever required to get said piece of paper with least amount of effort.

Until degrees, in particular, degrees from well-regarded universities stop being that method, this behavior will continue.

onemoresoop12 minutes ago
Sadly this is true. Another take is that if you don’t use AI but everybody outperforms you on exams using AI at some point you’re forced into it as well.
DANmode27 minutes ago
They’ve been taught that not having the piece of paper will keep them from having even a menial job,

so you have a huge population of people bullshitting their way through to the piece of paper.

thereitgoes456about 1 hour ago
Because it's an important aid to getting to a high-paying job in the US, not just a means to learn.

One need only look at the resume filtering process, a once manual bias that has now been codified into algorithmic bias with AI. A degree from a good school boosts your chances immensely, and other facets such as coursework don't matter much.

If you have ever seen someone filter applicant resumes, you will understand instantly. There are too many, you have to filter them somehow and the allure is irresistible.

fhnabout 2 hours ago
the professor has all the power in the classroom. If you don't want cheating, define better conditions for the exam. You allowed a take-home exam which means students are able to use any and all resources.
rsfern30 minutes ago
> You allowed a take-home exam which means students are able to use any and all resources.

It was a closed-book exam. The professor shouldn’t have to hold students’ hands for them to act with integrity, they are all adults.

In this particular class, the professor made the final exam in-person, and didn’t count the take-home midterm because the score distribution wasn’t consistent between the two exams. I think that’s a reasonable approach, but it’s kind of sad that it was necessary

carljungslabtek39 minutes ago
The thought of a closed book take home exam really made me laugh. They also mentioned Princeton hasn’t had professors in the room for exams since the 1890s… They just have a code of honor and rely on other students to report cheaters??

Ivy league is such a scam, in so many different ways.

hackermailmanabout 2 hours ago
They're going to have change everything so use of an AI assistant doesn't matter because once they graduate they're just going to continue using it anyway.

If it's a math for finance course then some kind of model building for the midterm and being marked on the quality of the model or something. If AI becomes so good that it always chooses the best fitting model and requires no numerical optimization then they will have to change the courses to be more like UChicago where it's primarily undergrad directed research but AI assisted.

hgoelabout 2 hours ago
The challenge I think is that students then struggle because they used AI throughout the semester and didn't actually learn. The proper response would be to be strict and fail students that don't perform to a satisfactory level, but this messes with the funding incentives.

You can only lead a horse to water, you can't make it drink. Maybe a student's sincerity should play a larger role in the admission process, maybe with a sharp expense curve such that students judged to be more sincere have to pay less tuition. It is an inherently subjective evaluation though.

Edit: I completely misread your comment. Asking students to build a model is not a finance class anymore.

hackermailmanabout 1 hour ago
It's a welfare economics theory course that requires many frameworks with measures where you are maximizing some graphical representation. It also requires assumptions to work and can be visualized in a model where you can see what happens when one of the assumptions doesn't hold.

For example the old and new Berkeley model to study rent control effect on market prices

hgoel41 minutes ago
I should've been clearer, I meant AI model. If you're referring to financial models, then yeah, that can be a reasonable direction.
danny_codesabout 1 hour ago
Why teach kids how to read, they can just take a picture of whatever text they want and have AI say it aloud.
orlpabout 2 hours ago
This is a dumb take. It's like not teaching kids 1 + 1 because a calculator can do it for them.