Sony Deletes 551 Movies PlayStation Owners Paid For

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bbilsbie about 3 hours ago 113 commentsRead Article on reclaimthenet.org

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Discussion (113 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

nullsmack•about 2 hours ago

We need some kind of modern equivalent to the old proposed Digital Media Consumer's Rights Act but which protects people's rights to digital media they buy. These should never be sold and then taken away with no compensation like this. We need a law that forces companies to treat digital files the same as a physical purchase. They can't take it away and have to allow people to resell and loan out as well. And in cases of online games where you can buy something, and then later they can ban you which deprives you of being able to use what you bought, that should come with requirements that the company must provide full compensation of the purchase price. It should also ban EULA's and TOS from defining these things as only licenses even though they are structured as a purchase in a store.

I know it'll never happen with the people we have in government these days, and the anti-consumer organizations, like the ESA, that are out there now claiming things like running private servers for Minecraft is illegal and piracy. (Yes, they really said that. Despite the fact that Minecraft has always provided the server and allowed this for 15+ years)

hodgehog11•37 minutes ago

Not sure if you know this, but this is literally the Stop Killing Games movement. Despite the recent apparent setback as reported in the news, the organisers are in talks with EU MPs that are writing sweeping legislation to address this sort of thing across all digital mediums.

You only need legislation like this to hold in one major market to make a big difference.

EA-3167•about 1 hour ago

They’ll be begging for it when they recreate the very piracy problem they were fleeing, but far worse.

dopidopHN2•about 1 hour ago

Yeah. This time I'm not living the high seas.

We seen what licensing ala Netflix and Spotify means artists.

wongarsu•14 minutes ago

*leaving

RajT88•3 minutes ago

I am find with "renting" a streaming movie, as an analogue to analog - going to Blockbuster and renting a movie.

But I not for a single second trusted "buying" digital goods, and I was quickly proved right. The first digital purchases getting yanked story must have been close to 20 years ago at this point.

I still buy CD's and books and game discs when the digital DRM-free equivalent cannot be had.

eska•about 3 hours ago

It should be illegal to have others purchase what you as a company only licensed and therefore aren’t legally allowed to sell.

mmh0000•about 2 hours ago

What's funny is that Sony has done this before![0] I've had a personal boycott against Sony products due to this.

  "The feature was controversially removed by Sony since system firmware update 3.21, released on April 1, 2010.[2] A class action lawsuit was filed against Sony on behalf of users, but was dismissed with prejudice in 2011 by a federal judge. The judge stated: "As a legal matter, ... plaintiffs have failed to allege facts or articulate a theory on which Sony may be held liable."[3] However, this decision was overturned in a 2014 appellate court decision[4] finding that plaintiffs had indeed made clear and sufficiently substantial claims. Ultimately, in 2016, Sony settled with users who had installed Linux or had purchased a PlayStation 3 based upon the availability of OtherOS."

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OtherOS

garciansmith•about 2 hours ago

Yep. I had tons of Sony games across the first three Playstation consoles. I was a grad student with a PS3 at the time and I actually used Yellow Dog Linux on it as a computer to write papers when my laptop broke. Then the update came and I chose to ignore it, but that meant I couldn't play online games. Soon new games required a firmware update (still remember putting in the Dark Souls disc and being stunned I wasn't allowed to play it!).

And with games it's just getting worse (Sony announced they won't make discs starting 2028; the Switch 2 takes carts but very, very few games release on a cart). If you care about control over the games you purchased, if you care about going back and playing older games, then the only choice is to use platforms that are DRM free. (Or, well, non-legal means.)

Fire-Dragon-DoL•about 2 hours ago

Kinda. On Steam I can still play games I bought 18 years ago.

Still walled garden, but they act way better.

gbraad•about 2 hours ago

I boycot Sony since they blocked my PSN account, which got hacked due to them! Purchases I made are not available, ... I really took a disliking before when they refused to fix my Vaio laptop, ... this was the last drop!

Frieren•about 2 hours ago

Good, but only laws will keep them on check. If I boycotted all companies that have done something wrong, I would boycott all of them. I keep that option for the worst offenders. Laws and regulations is what keeps companies in check.

piltdownman•about 3 hours ago

They make it up as they go along. Their 2005 Audio-CD EULA includes provisions purporting to require the immediate deletion of all copies if a user files for personal bankruptcy

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2005/12/summary-claims-against...

xtracto•about 1 hour ago

If buying is not owning, piracy is not theft.

nekusar•about 1 hour ago

Piracy was never theft.

It was a copyright violation. Which, I don't give one fuck about.

matheusmoreira•about 1 hour ago

Yeah. Copyright monopolists equate copyright infringement to literal high seas piracy because it's the only way they can make any impact. Nobody would give a fuck otherwise.

dylan604•about 1 hour ago

I like how succinct this is.

noahbp•about 3 hours ago

Plenty of people purchase digital movie rentals from Apple, Youtube, etcetera because they know they will watch it once, and the lower price in exchange for a temporary license is acceptable to them. I don't think banning this is pro-consumer.

It should, however, be illegal to tell your customers that they are purchasing/buying media without explicit "Rent" language (which implies a non-expiring license) when you do not yourself have the right to grant non-expiring licenses.

etempleton•about 2 hours ago

They often have two tiers, a rental tier and a purchase tier. If you purchase the assumption is it will be available forever.

dylan604•about 1 hour ago

Seems like a bad assumption at this point even if it goes against expectations. We've seen on multiple occasions now from different companies where a digital purchase wasn't forever. This is no way an endorsement of the behavior, but if that's your assumption then the quip "you know what happens when you assume" wins again.

babypuncher•about 1 hour ago

> Plenty of people purchase digital movie rentals from Apple, Youtube, etcetera because they know they will watch it once, and the lower price in exchange for a temporary license is acceptable to them. I don't think banning this is pro-consumer.

Many of these services offer cheaper rental options. When you go for the more expensive "buy" option, the assumption that you are actually buying it to keep should hold true.

404mm•about 3 hours ago

I bet there’s a class action coming.

And Sony made it easy for them too by using this verbiage: “previously purchased content”

bilekas•about 2 hours ago

Because they were purchases, not rentals. Under no circumstances would a customer reasonably assume that their purchase would be revoked for reasons completely outside of their control.

cryptonym•about 3 hours ago

Agree... if they want to sell it, parent company must agree on forever licenses for each user. Regardless of reselling license getting cancelled.

throwaway87543•about 1 hour ago

Studio Canal directly got paid for each individual purchase. It isn't all on Sony, Studio Canal sold a product then took it away.

babypuncher•about 1 hour ago

They're both to blame. Studio Canal insisted on a licensing agreement that works this way, and Sony agreed to it to sell their content.

For Sony, the correct move here would have been to not list Studio Canal titles in the first place, and put out a very public statement saying that they aren't being listed until Studio Canal agrees to make purchased licenses perpetual as they should be.

Terr_•15 minutes ago

> Both to blame

IANAL but I think the US law approach is to rely on chaining, so the #1 blame is on Sony until Sony proves it isn't.

1. Consumers who were damaged sue Sony for damages.

2. If Sony loses, Sony sues Studio Canal for damages.

3. If Studio Canal loses... ?

glimshe•about 2 hours ago

I've heard there's a service called PirateBay that offers movies free of DRM. Maybe people considering being Sony customers in the future should give it a try.

someonebaggy•about 1 hour ago

The Pirate Bay is considered one of the worst pirate sites now. Of course, if you can find what you want, then you can, but any piracy community will recommend against it due to nonexistent moderation (eg. against viruses), poor navigation, and lack of uploads due to them not issuing new uploader accounts for several years now.

not_a_bot_4sho•about 1 hour ago

> The Pirate Bay is considered one of the worst pirate sites now

I'm curious. What are the best sites nowadays? Still torrents, right?

I used to be in the know but switched to legit things a while back so I wouldn't have to explain how dad is getting Bluey episodes.

dimitri-vs•21 minutes ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1337x

charcircuit•about 2 hours ago

That's copyright infringement. They do not have the rights to distribute the movies.

AndroTux•about 1 hour ago

Neither does Sony (anymore), apparently. They still sold them.

Natfan•about 1 hour ago

and redefined the terms of "sold" in their contract to mean "rent, with a one-time fee"

it is more immoral to sell something you can't legally "sell" (permanently and irrevocably transfer ownership of a product), than to pirate that content (which has no level of expected payment)

charcircuit•about 1 hour ago

Sony sold them while they still had the license with a clause that they could remove them at any time.

haakon•about 1 hour ago

You're right, we should strive for compliance with copyrights and distribution licenses in our personal lives.

infinite_spin•about 1 hour ago

they don't host or distribute movies, they distribute torrents/magnets.. the speakeasy might be illegal, but telling people where to find one is not.

skeptic_ai•about 1 hour ago

But you can actually purchase them at 100% discount. And you can own as long as you want. Seems a much better deal.

NoSalt•about 2 hours ago

Ever since Apple, Microsoft, Google, etc. started offering "free" online storage for photos, ever since streaming started to be popular, I have ALWAYS extolled the virtues of µSD card slots in phones and owning your own media (i.e., purchasing CDs and DVDs). Many people would give me a hard time about this, calling me a Luddite, but I will never lose access to my photos, music, or movies ... unless it is the end of the world as we know it, which I happily have on R.E.M.'s Eponymous album.

mort96•about 1 hour ago

I just wish it was possible to buy decent ųSD cards. Even really expensive ones sold in reputable stores die all the time. Sure they work just fine if your goal is to write photos into it, never delete anything and get a new one once it fills up, but anything more write heavy typically kills my SD cards within months. SSDs last decades.

sand500•40 minutes ago

I wish library of things had tape writers and readers. Magnetic tape storage is quite cost effective for data backups and archiving.

NoSalt•38 minutes ago

I have been using the same µSD card since 2016 with no issues.

Watch ... it'll fail on me later today. :-D

tartoran•about 2 hours ago

Why would anyone call you a luddite for advocating for MicroSDs? Of course the reason SD were pushed away (at least for Apple) was to offer cloud backup as the only option with no alternatives.

mikestew•about 1 hour ago

Of course the reason SD were pushed away (at least for Apple) was to offer cloud backup as the only option with no alternatives.

Except that no part of what you claim is true:

https://support.apple.com/guide/iphone/back-up-iphone-iph3ec...

sandcat_•3 minutes ago

Does anyone actually do this? I’m looking to reduce my reliance on iCloud but I’ve kept my backups there so far as it always seemed onerous to have to plug in manually. And easy to forget, too.

felooboolooomba•11 minutes ago

This might have repercussions in the UK. There are supreme court where T&C have been invalidated due to not being advertised well enough. The more onerous the clause is, the more burden is laid on the seller to make sure the customer understands that.

I doubt most of the people who "bought" the film understood that they weren't buying it and it could be taken away from theme at any time.

pgwalsh•about 2 hours ago

Not the first time and not going to be the last. Unless you can download it to hardware you completely own and can make a backup, it's not really yours. Online purchases I can get on with, like Bandcamp are pretty good. I bought the new Globular album on CD and it took 10 days to get to me from the UK. I also had access to high quality downloads. That works, these other models do not.

satellites•about 1 hour ago

Bandcamp rules. I do still subscribe to Apple Music for cheap streaming, but for albums I really like, I'll spend the $8 on bandcamp for the high quality album download. Better support for the artist, and protection against license-pulling BS like this.

dylan604•about 1 hour ago

Even if you have a back up copy of a DRM file and they have turned off the authenticating services, that digital file is of now use to you until someone comes up with a way of decrypting it. This is what Microsoft did with their music service.

mikestew•about 1 hour ago

When MS ended Plays fer Sure sales two years after they started, and no DRM-free alternative (well, MS said you could burn to CD at a crap bitrate), that's when I learned to operate sails and a rudder. I tried to play nice, but I could see where this was going.

I still make digital purchases, but at the first sign of friction, at the first indication that I'm gonna get screwed somehow, I leave port and off to the open waters. Fuck 'em, I played by the rules until I discovered that I was the only one doing so.

mdavid626•4 minutes ago

I feel zero guilt to pirate movies.

Danii27•about 1 hour ago

The honest product description would be: "You are purchasing a revocable license to stream this content at our discretion, for an unspecified period, subject to change without notice."

Nobody would buy that. So they say "buy" instead, and courts have largely let them get away with it. Until legislation actually forces the word "buy" to mean ownership, this will keep happening.

anigbrowl•26 minutes ago

2 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48718967

4 days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48691346

4 years ago ( so it's not the first time studioCanal has done this): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32010317

Cider9986•13 minutes ago

https://fmhy.net is the most comprehensive piracy guide ever creates with over 30k links.

matheusmoreira•about 1 hour ago

You've already paid for it. Just download it from somewhere else with a clean conscience.

keraf•about 3 hours ago

And with more and more content being distributed digitally, and even Sony announcing that physical disks won't be a thing from 2028 [0], the days of media ownership are gone. The only way to "own" content is it being DRM free (rare) or piracy. And ironically, DRMs justify the existence of piracy.

[0] https://blog.playstation.com/2026/07/01/physical-disc-produc...

ge96•about 2 hours ago

No refund?

I have a similar grief with YouTube movies although in that one, they don't play UHD. Some do like Valerian plays at least in 1080P, most movies are capped to 480P unless you have an "approved device" eg. something probably riddled with ads.

mr_toad•about 2 hours ago

1080p or higher is pretty common on the high seas, even for titles like cartoons, which in my opinion is overkill.

realo•about 1 hour ago

A long time ago I worked in the video codec area and was shown then that the most difficult videos to compress (i.e. with the most compressed bytes resulting in the file) were cartoons, because of the sharp edges, etc.

Not sure if it is still the case today with the latest generations of ultra-advanced codecs.

ge96•about 2 hours ago

They do have Cowboy Bebop in 1080P on YouTube which looks amazing, I bought it

I don't partake in downloading anymore but I do go to streaming sites

firefoxd•about 1 hour ago

It is in times like these that I start getting messages from friend and family that asks:

> What's the name of that website?

I tell them to use yandex, they will find plenty of such websites...

zuzululu•about 1 hour ago

its funny how Russia became the champion for free speech as long as it doesnt impact them

nekusar•about 1 hour ago

gitflic.ru is the Russian Github that permits speech that the DMCA doesn't.

And yes, bypassing DRM is banned speech in the USA, punishable by criminal law. And there's no actual requirement of a company to claim DRM and defeat methods. The law is set up so they can claim basically anything, and its 100% backed by criminal law.

1FA is kinda a joke, cause saying inane shit like "Hitler was a good guy" is perfectly fine, but "09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0" (HD-DVD private key) is criminally banned speech.

c-hendricks•about 2 hours ago

Should mention today Sony also announced the end of physical releases for their consoles, and the closure of the PS3 and PSVita stores.

bilekas•about 2 hours ago

It used to be that streaming services were an excellent option even over torrenting because of the ease of access and use.

Now we're not even getting to retain what we buy, this is not a streaming service, these were sold to users individually.

We've gone full circle where I honestly believe pirating is a far better offering.

The root of the problem is these ridiculous content licensing agreements, it should be very very obvious to the customer when they're buying that "Hey, you will own this until X date when our content licensing agreement is finished"

Not hidden by design in some dense ToS.

maxverse•about 3 hours ago

Related discussions:

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48730904

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48691346

qwerpy•41 minutes ago

There’s still a good amount of outrage to be farmed from this, looks like.

HelloUsername•about 2 hours ago

Also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48718967

jo4329j5•about 2 hours ago

That's why I pirate content and will continue to pirate content. I'm not hurting artists. I go to shows and premiers and book signings. I'm perfectly fine with stealing from publishing cartels.

PUSH_AX•about 2 hours ago

> I'm not hurting artists

I guess residuals are a made up thing.

Waterluvian•about 1 hour ago

The communication on this could be better. I feel like I’ve heard that artists often get pretty much nothing.

At some point, being more honest about what artists get paid will probably help the middlemen more than harm them.

bloomingeek•about 2 hours ago

Wait, people trusted a corporation and got screwed?!? Why, that's...unheard of!(My wife, bless her, has "purchased" dozens of movies on amazon. I warned her that when the amazon wind changes, she may regret those purchases. I got the look.)

devn0ll•about 2 hours ago

I understand where you are going with this, but it also feels incorrect to me to blame people innocently "buying" media from a $corporation.

What are people to do if they want to stay on the non-pirate/legal side of this but also prevent being royally F-ed?

someonebaggy•about 1 hour ago

There's no overlap. Just pirate.

nkrisc•about 1 hour ago

You can just not watch a movie. No one needs movies.

Capricorn2481•about 1 hour ago

Nobody said otherwise.

stronglikedan•about 2 hours ago

I really hope this leads to a class action that sets precedence, but I won't hold my breath or even consider whether that's even possible.

someonebaggy•about 1 hour ago

Class actions are usually not very effective. Each affected individual will receive $0.03 and the company will pay 0.5% of the money it made from this maneuver. What actually works is the opposite, mass small claims lawsuits for refunds, because that way the cost of handling those cases is much higher for the company than for the individual.

giancarlostoro•about 3 hours ago

They should at least make an effort to let you sync them into MoviesAnywhere which is supposed to solve the "I have this on iTunes, but not Android TV" problem by unlocking it across platforms if you sync your accounts. They should really let you permanently keep movies on defunct platforms as part of your standard MoviesAnywhere movie collection.

zamadatix•about 3 hours ago

Movies Anywhere works by aggregating the active digital access licenses you have participating partner services. The problem here is Sony won't be able to give any active digital access licenses for these movies to users after September 1st, let alone one which allows them to transfer that through Movies Anywhere.

It's typical "you own nothing" logic to the point the companies selling you that also don't even own it.

giancarlostoro•about 2 hours ago

Sure, but its also run and operated by the rights holders, which they never even needed to do.

zamadatix•about 2 hours ago

It's more "streaming/delivery operators which also have some of their own licensed content":

- Disney -> Disney+/Hulu

- Universal/NBC -> Peacock

- Warner Bros. -> Max

- Lionsgate -> Lionsgate+

- Sony Pictures -> The Sony services relevant to the article (note: the Sony services sell more than just Sony Pictures content)

They never needed to, but it actually makes them more money because a revenue share model through Movies Anywhere makes sense. StudioCanal does not sell streaming/delivery services directly to consumers, a revenue share model between streaming providers would not make them more money, and Sony would have no influence on StudioCanal doing so anyways.

Mindwipe•about 2 hours ago

The announcement only seems to have been sent to users in the UK and MoviesAnywhere is a US only service. Also StudioCanal are ultimately the rightsholder who would need to join MoviesAnywhere, and they are not members.

(I am a bit surprised they didn't bung Google and StudioCanal a bit of money to move them to Google Play to avoid the bad publicity though.)

piltdownman•about 3 hours ago

Sony literally distributed a rootkit in the guise of DRM for Audio CDs back when piracy meant CD-R distribution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootk...

Anyone remotely surprised at their history of utter contempt for the end-user need only remind themselves of SVP Steve Heckler's remarks to conference attendee's in 2000

"The industry will take whatever steps it needs to protect itself and protect its revenue streams ... It will not lose that revenue stream, no matter what ... Sony is going to take aggressive steps to stop this. We will develop technology that transcends the individual user."

https://web.archive.org/web/20090318115847/http://www.nyfair...

The remarks of Stewart Baker of the DHS admonishing Sony are as relevant today as they were then; namely that "it's your intellectual property - it's not your computer."

https://web.archive.org/web/20051229031842/http://www.mp3new...

azalemeth•about 2 hours ago

I haven't bought a single Sony product since then. I used to have a Sony walkman, clock radio, buy classical Sony CDs (or their sub brands), etc, nearly got an original PlayStation.

I wrote a letter to them after the rootkit fiasco saying they've lost a consumer for life. Didn't get a real response. Wrote to them last anti DRM day. Didn't get a response.

Really, this is the only power one has in capitalism -- don't buy their products.

jobs_throwaway•about 2 hours ago

This is one reason why piracy is legitimate and important

tartoran•about 2 hours ago

People will soon enough realize the only alternative to actually own a copy is by going back to torrenting.

RIMR•about 1 hour ago

If buying isn't owning, then pirating isn't stealing.

raluk•about 2 hours ago

In similar fashon in year 2009 Amazon deleted books from Kindle. One of them was 1984 from George Orwell.

stonecharioteer•40 minutes ago

Yohohoho.

Going to bring Binks' Brew.

steveBK123•about 2 hours ago

Incredible timing with the news they are discontinuing disks in 2028.

You will own nothing.

iceyest•about 1 hour ago

I keep seeing people whinge about disks, but I dont see the benefit. Most people dont even have the hardware to read a disk...

How is this any different from downloading a file off the internet? Maybe its fun to juggle a bunch of disks?

Right I should also add I'm mostly talking about PC here.

steveBK123•5 minutes ago

Rights management in a physical media world = I have the media in my hand (caveats for some DRM systems)

Rights management for digital media = companies remotely deleting paid content from my account & keeping my money / songs disappearing out of my streaming playlist / etc

matheusmoreira•about 1 hour ago

And you'll be happy. It will be mandatory and enforced.

jimt1234•about 1 hour ago

Reminds me of 1984, not the book itself, but the time when Amazon deleted it from everyone's Kindle because of some sort of copyright issue. I think that's when most of us first realized that the digital media being purchased doesn't really belong to you.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2009/jul/17/amazon-ki...

webdoodle•about 2 hours ago

A friend of mine owned the first Ipod, and diligently ripped all his cd's and cut and pasted them too his device. I asked if he had backups, and he said he had the cd's. I told him too make a copy, just in case the Apple mafia came too delete his stuff. He didn't, and then after a move he lost or scratched many of his CD's. His only backup WAS the ripped MP3's. A few years later Apple deleted all of his music claiming he hadn't purchased them. He didn't even know how to download music. Every single MP3 he had he ripped himself...

reactordev•about 1 hour ago

You will own nothing and be happy. Buying anything digitally now-a-days is the same as renting as far as they are concerned.

steele•about 2 hours ago

Ending the production of physical discs too. Ripe for disruption.

someonebaggy•about 1 hour ago

No legal disruption is possible - these are the terms content holders insist on. Illegal disruption already happened and you already have access to it, but you're not using it because you don't want to break the law.

montroser•about 2 hours ago

That "thank you" at the end is particularly classy. Thank you for getting fucked and giving us your money.

rvz•about 2 hours ago

Your purchase has been literally deleted.

basisword•about 3 hours ago

I'm surprised movies haven't yet moved to DRM free on purchases the way music did on iTunes back in 2009. With movie files being so large and people having streaming services integrated in their TV's I can't imagine there is all that much incentive for people to share them anyway. The only thing it does is help prevent situations like this.

shadowtree•about 3 hours ago

It is legitimately impossible to purchase certain movies, especially classic, in any format due to regional blocks.

Simple example: "The Things of Life", a classic French movie from 1970. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Things_of_Life

No way to get it in the US. No physical media, no streaming. It is on Apple TV ... in France.

You can torrent it.

Utterly brokem model.

Music is the same btw, Apple Music and Spotify geoblock music. Workaround is to add to your library when traveling in EU. Insane.

leafmeal•about 2 hours ago

If you're open to physical media you can probably request it through your library, or similarly buy the dvd from ebay or something.

juliend2•about 2 hours ago

And for some non-geoblocked music, if you want to actually purchase the song as MP3, there's no way unless you have a Mac or Windows PC to install iTunes (too bad for Linux users).

https://uk.7digital.com/ has a lot of songs available in MP3 format, but not as many as on iTunes.