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49% Positive

Analyzed from 2281 words in the discussion.

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#claude#cache#model#code#read#effort#context#same#something#why

Discussion (58 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

rhakswabout 2 hours ago
> @-mention files instead of naming them

Love Claude, but the @ mention is broken in the desktop app. For the same project if I type the same query "@ephem" I get:

CLI: https://imgur.com/a/VZMUCOa (good, relevant results)

Desktop: https://imgur.com/a/QLSo4Ms (bad, irrelevant)

Opened issue for this and it was automatically closed:

https://github.com/anthropics/claude-code/issues/71421

I could have written the issue better (using CLI as comparison instead of VS Code). But, no doubt in my mind Claude could fix this itself in a minute.

guessmynameabout 1 hour ago
> Opened issue for this and it was automatically closed: […]

It was not “automatically” closed.

It was closed roughly 17 days after opening due to low activity.

You could have posted a comment or something to reset the timer.

DangitBobby44 minutes ago
By what definition of automatically does a bot closing an issue with low activity not count as "automatically closed"?
Banditozabout 1 hour ago
Just because a Github issue doesn't have activity doesn't mean it's not an issue anymore.
kristjanssonabout 1 hour ago
the norms of issue trackers are strongly opposed to “bump”. these autoclose bots may yet change that
hackernudes23 minutes ago
In this case there is a two phase staleness check. The bot marks it as stale and it is correct to "bump" it if you think it is still important. The nixpkgs repo works the same way. I think it backs off from adding stale again as it gets bumped.

I'm not saying it's a perfect solution but for projects that deal with large amounts of issues it's workable.

jnwatsonabout 2 hours ago
Can anyone explain why the prefix cache is tied to effort?

I frequently run Fable at xhigh effort to run statistical modeling way above my undergraduate understanding. Claude Fable produces Masters-degree level output, and then I spend lots of round trips asking it to explain different parts to me.

The first part absolutely uses the extra effort, but the interrogation exercise is something a much simpler model, or the same model with much less effort, could answer.

hellohello2about 2 hours ago
One trick is to simply as for a fast answer when talking to a high effort model, when working interactively. Sounds stupid but I do this all the time and it works. Just tell it you are working interactively now and need ultrafast answers with no thinking.

I would be really curious to know as well, why effort is linked to cache as its quite inconveniant. Is it possible the token used to indicate effort is only passed once at the start, not per thinking trace, or quite simply that different efforts have different model weights?

janalsncmabout 2 hours ago
I’m guessing that there’s a system prompt at the top telling the model about its reasoning budget. So when you switch reasoning effort it busts the cache.
BeetleBabout 1 hour ago
> @-mention files instead of naming them. The file gets attached to your message directly, which saves a Read call, or a search if Claude has to go find it.

I've heard it argued that this is an antipattern. If the file is large, it will read the whole file. With Read or something similar, it can do a targeted search and read only the relevant portion.

Is this still not the case?

Also, since they mention /context: Can anyone explain why /context takes so long to run? It usually takes several seconds, and I've had cases of it taking over a minute.

And why don't they just show the basics in a status line somewhere? Just a plain: "120K/200K tokens" I hate having to type /context just to get this. And I shouldn't need to install an extension.

sadfgknerknksdfabout 1 hour ago
You can make your own status line with something like "120K/200K Fable 5", it's nice.
9devabout 1 hour ago
You can do tons more, really. There’s even a built-in /statusline command to modify it; mine shows both context window usage alongside session and weekly limit, all of them as progress bars. Just ask Claude to do it.
rhakswabout 1 hour ago
> I've heard it argued that this is an antipattern. If the file is large, it will read the whole file. With Read or something similar, it can do a targeted search and read only the relevant portion.

I suspect you're right and that's why they haven't fixed @-search in the desktop app.

I actually don't find myself using it anymore since moving to the desktop app. I went from using various AI extensions in the IDE to Claude Code desktop.

But if that's accurate, why mention it in this post? Maybe because that's the first thing developers will try when moving away from a code editor?

nathanyzabout 2 hours ago
This feels like the Anthropic version of "You're holding it wrong" (1)

1) https://www.wired.com/2010/06/iphone-4-holding-it-wrong/

onlyrealcuzzo10 minutes ago
Step 1: use a different LLM that isn't 10x slower and 2-5x cheaper for the same level of quality.
agumonkeyabout 2 hours ago
It feels worse. It's all noob level suggestions that any decent system would have optimized away already.
Glyptodonabout 2 hours ago
What I see is that I have to read a bunch of stuff and go through a bunch of hassle to save money when the root of it is that if I tell an AI to do work on a task while I'm busy with something else and come back later I've doubled my cost because the cache expires too quickly?
chamsomabout 1 hour ago
As a driver I want to spend the majority of the day optimizing my truck's gasoline usage so that I can focus on optimizing my productivity for an outcome I am too far disconnected from to care about anymore.
apt-apt-apt-aptabout 3 hours ago
I'm finding that unexpected cache rewrites cost me huge.

I have 1h cache TTL set, and do nothing to cause rewrite (response in time, no model/effort/tool changes).

At 400K tokens in, I'll write a message, and /usage shows only a small increase in cache write. On the next message, cache writes shows 800K, and by the end, I often hit 2M cache writes with no explanation.

This seems to happen when: using /btw, asking it to review code, other random times. Anyone know what's going on?

radlad38 minutes ago
I have long suspected but not confirmed that /btw uses a lower tier model like Haiku.

Depending on how you're triggering reviews, you may be using a sub-agent?

AlexErrantabout 1 hour ago
To not answer your question, I have a claude stop hook that my status line uses to tell me how close my cache is to expiring https://pastebin.com/JLXUG16Q

_entirely_ vibecoded don't @ me.

pzo30 minutes ago
> Set your model and effort level before you start. Changing either one mid-conversation can bust your prompt cache, which can increase token cost.

I know we supposed to do this but is there any particular reason why such things cannot be supported? I thought its running on same model just different settings like reasoning. This would be super useful.

NoDodgeQuestionabout 2 hours ago
Bro: superintelligent machine line go up AI AGI software solved automate everything

Also bro: Run /clearbetween tasks. This prevents prior irrelevant context from being sent back to the model, which can reduce token usage. Set your model and effort level before you start. Changing either one mid-conversation can bust your prompt cache, which can increase token cost. @-mention files instead of naming them. The file gets attached to your message directly, which saves a Read call, or a search if Claude has to go find it. Add quiet flags to noisy commands, or run them in a subagent. Command output is added to the conversation just like a file, and stays there for the rest of the session. Run /context once in a fresh session. It shows what's loaded (CLAUDE.md, MCP tool definitions), so you can cut out anything unnecessary. /compact before you take a break from your keyboard. The prompt cache expires after an hour, and summarizing a conversation is much cheaper while it's still cached.

DangitBobby36 minutes ago
What do you want? Lacking omniscience, even the smartest superintelligence imaginable has to do more thinking to deal with worse inputs.
NoDodgeQuestionabout 2 hours ago
Author not bro, sorry misgender
pdpiabout 2 hours ago
I'd argue that women can be bros too, especially when using the word in this sense.
mccoybabout 3 hours ago
I mean, it feels hard not to laugh at this type of blog post. My cynical interpretation is that this is a type of passing the buck to engineers in enterprise settings ("Stop spending tokens. Did you read the value maximization blog post? It is your fault.")

Oh yes, Claude will do all sorts of different things -- it depends on how you use it! You should totally learn all of these little finicky things ... because now completing your tasks cost money. It's not "free" anymore haha like when you used your old text editor, what are you a grandpa?

Oh, and those things will definitely change, as we (the priests of Claude) are vibe coding the system you use to do your little "tasks" ... right, you can't see how it works ... the code is not available. It's all good, just trust us -- we're totally looking out for you.

I mean it is utterly ridiculous to talk around this model of development. There are so many walls between you and doing the thing you want to do.

Agents are great, but the notion of "best tricks" for how to best use an opaque costful tool which will, by all odds, be completely different in a few months time is quite funny.

You know what won't change? A fucking text editor. Or your pi config, or a local model you run and trust.

DangitBobby30 minutes ago
Not sure how this level of cynicism is even remotely warranted. The post helps people who don't understand LLMs very well get the most out of Claude. Your incentives here are actually aligned with Anthropics since both of you want fewer tokens inputted and outputted per task completed.
mccoyb7 minutes ago
Perhaps my enterprise cynicism is not warranted, but my other comments refer to accurate descriptions of reality: Anthropic wants to place their opaque system between you and any computational task that you wish to perform. Do you contest this or think it is not accurate?

Why do you think that Anthropic wants fewer tokens inputted and outputted?

mnahkiesabout 1 hour ago
Through my weekend experiments, I've found I can get way better outcomes, and an order of magnitude less cost with my slapped together sandboxed omp setup plus ZDR openrouter models (DeepSeek, Kimi, etc) than I've ever seen from Claude Code at work.

Everything is version pinned and a deliberate choice to change, and a git revert away from changing back.

TBF the models may change underneath me to some extent still, but the cost benefit of running them myself doesn't pan out yet (for agentic coding at least, don't have enough local vram to get a usable context window and generation speed, self hosting on runpod or similar isn't economically sensible for my current consumption though I have tinkered with it)

csallenabout 2 hours ago
I'm trying to understand your point of view, but it kind of just sounds like you're against learning how to use tools efficiently?

I mean, agentic coding software is hardly the first tool to exist where learning some idiosyncrasies of how to use it well can result in more efficiency and cost savings.

mccoybabout 2 hours ago
It's very easy to understand:

- I'm happy to learn how to use tools efficiently

- I like to be able to inspect my tools

- I'm against tools changing underneath me

Are you against any of these points?

csallenabout 2 hours ago
I think I'm happy about the first two. The third I suppose I care less about, just because I've kind of become used to it from decades working on the internet where many businesses/tools/apps are more like services and less like physical tools that never change.
dist-epochabout 1 hour ago
I'm curious if you also laugh at articles about how to reduce your AWS bill, or how to add indices to Postgres such that you can run it on cheaper hardware.
runeblazeabout 2 hours ago
dude, if you try to do harness development yourself you will realize that most things said in this blogpost is shared with any ${sufficiently_advanced_harness}. this is not really claude-specific, this is just how this class of tools, OSS or not, works
mccoybabout 2 hours ago
That's not my complaint. I know well the concerns of agent harnesses. My complaint is that this is a low-dimensional projection of a system which I have no insight into, and therefore, I cannot evaluate the tips myself against their source.

Am I to believe the creators, knowing full well that the source will, as Boris Cherny put it in a recent interview, be deleted and rewritten from scratch at the release of the next big model?

Further: I'm responding to content in the blog post itself:

> Until pretty recently, the tools you wrote code with were a flat fee (or free). Your editor cost the same whether you fixed one test or fifty that afternoon, so an individual task didn't really have a price of its own.

I find this type of prose ridiculous. It conveys "this is the way things are now, get used to it".

Does that make sense?

runeblaze6 minutes ago
> which I have no insight into

i guess you do? claude code is the commercial closed sourced version provides by ant. reading a mini version of vllm or sglang and then read codex source code or grok build source code will teach you all things taught by this article, fully in the open

it is like saying that you have no insights into some $commercial_db_system which is kinda true but imagine if the article is to teach you indices, query normalization, etc..

bluefirebrandabout 1 hour ago
> I find this type of prose ridiculous. It conveys "this is the way things are now, get used to it".

This is absolutely what AI companies and AI lovers want you to believe

ahurmazdaabout 1 hour ago
What’s the point of running /clear vs starting a brand new session. At least with the latter I have session history, no? Pardon my ignorance since Claude isn’t my primary driver
andai13 minutes ago
Not 100% sure what clear does, but starting a new session invalidates the cache*, whereas I assume clear only removes part of the context, so it should be cheaper and faster.

* In theory the system prompt is always the same and should therefore be cached, but in practice there's some dynamic strings in there so it doesn't work that way. (Unless they changed this recently.)

mikeocoolabout 1 hour ago
As far as I've seen /clear is the same thing as starting a new session.

If you type /resume right after clear, the first thing in the list is the session you just cleared.

olsondvabout 3 hours ago
After having used Codex for a promotional month, and now using Claude, Claude is not as efficient with finding relevant information. I can give it the one file it should be using and then it goes off and greps parent directories for more context. It’s also incredibly slow at producing results because of this side work. In this article, it seems like they are catching up to what GitHub copilot users had already been doing since the cost restructuring in June.
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aleksiy123about 1 hour ago
Is it possible to have some kind of script to keep your cache warm, or auto compact or something.

I sometimes just leave some goals or something running before I go to bed or out and I don’t want to pay the cache text when I come back.

cube006 minutes ago
If everyone does it they lose the memory savings they're getting by expiring the cache.
andai17 minutes ago
Austerity on tap!
bytestrixabout 2 hours ago
do people use the Caveman, RTK plugins
guessmynameabout 1 hour ago
No, because it is useless.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49080605 (JetBrains, Does Speaking to Agents Like Cavemen Save 65% of Tokens? We Test)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48588755 (The Token Compression Illusion: Why I'm Skeptical of RTK )

gavmorabout 2 hours ago
My agent didn't like it. Indirection causing noise and failure outweighed the token savings.

https://regular-reviews.pages.dev/rtk

tolugeniusabout 3 hours ago
Part of the cynic in me just wants to ask "why not make a better harness by default?" The other cynic in me knows I'm about to see a hundred post on 'HOW TO 10X CLAUDE" from the ai bros and I'm already tired.

I guess if I had to ask something (as someone who doesn't use CC as their daily driver), how much control do you have on subagents and roughly how do define or know when a session is getting too long? I know the answer is "when the model is getting worse" but worse is doing a lot of lifting in that sentence.

nathanyzabout 2 hours ago
Yeah, I sort of feel like they could just do this in Claude Code for us in some way. I mean they already run some mini classifier on whether a given prompt is waiting on input, so they could do the same to detect some of these cases, and just handle it.

If you have to explain that someone is "holding it wrong"(1), that is product error, not a user error.

(1) https://www.wired.com/2010/06/iphone-4-holding-it-wrong/

PeterStuerabout 2 hours ago
I do all that, but an 'AS-BUILT' full review of my project still eats 3x my 5 hour budget on max 100€. Meanwhile, my 20€ GPT never hit a limit. Different, but just saying.
apercuabout 1 hour ago
I didn't read the whole thing, but I got my back up at the headline and my first reaction is now even the "AI" companies are telling you that "you're holding it wrong".

I mean, they told us "just talk naturally to the AI because it's so much smarter than all you meatbags" and now it's “for best results, please learn to manage context windows, prompt caching, cache invalidation, model switching, output verbosity and when to manually clear or compact your session.”

I get it, but it seems like the "PRODUCT" should be doing this shit. I.e., the PRODUCT is getting less efficient because I didn't manually manage its context correctly and now it's MY fault.

Edit: i.e., for e.g. Doh. Even the robots get that right. Sigh.

DangitBobby21 minutes ago
There is no shortage of literature on how to communicate effectively with real people.
QuercusMax31 minutes ago
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it." -Upton Sinclair

Anthropic has no incentive to make their products more efficient as long as they're selling them by the token.

DangitBobby21 minutes ago
They are selling to many customers by subscription.