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Bernstein is a co-author on NIST PQC competition submissions that didn't win (Classic McEliece, which just had a huge new research result, and Streamlined NTRU Prime, a lattice cousin to MLKEM).
When CRYSTALS/Kyber was selected in the NIST competition instead of SNTRUP, Bernstein didn't take it well. He claimed malfeasance by NIST and sued them for allegedly hiding documents.
Meanwhile, over the subsequent years, the world has continued turning on its axes. CRYSTALS/Kyber is now ML-KEM. Because many cryptography engineers and other security people think there's a lot of urgency to getting PQC deployed (because of harvest-now decrypt-later [HNDL] attacks), the IETF got a move on standardizing hybrid ECDH/MLKEM TLS 1.3, which is what everyone uses.
Nobody at IETF has ever to my knowledge even hinted that anyone should avoid hybrids. There is a standards-track RFC defining ECDH/ML-KEM hybrids.
There are environments where hybrids are problematic. You won't likely use any of them ever. Some of them occur within the US Government, and some of them are on highly constrained platforms (people seem to disbelieve this is ever really a thing but I once gameovered a smart meter because its RF protocol only had like 16 bits of counter space for CTR).
Because of this, there is also a proposed informational RFC --- not a standards track document --- that documents what pure MLKEM looks like in a TLS 1.3 setting. Bernstein's entire argument is that this is an NSA plot.
Maybe we should treat standards like we do a free market - let anyone implement what they choose then let people chose which to adopt, but the main thing is get government out of the entire process.
If the government wants to standardise, that’s fine… just don’t make it an industry standard adopted by civilians. Let them have their weakened protocols will the market moves on
Obviously, Bernstein is counting on you not following that level of nuance; he'd much rather you believe he's arguing for hybrids against people who are trying to exterminate hybrids.
For clarity: I am not a cryptographer; I'm a vulnerability researcher who does some cryptography work and for several reasons I talk to a lot of academic cryptographers and cryptography engineers. You could not pay me to design a PQC transport protocol for you.
I am. I literally hold six patents around secure key generation and management. I stand by DJB's points.
Can you explain a bit more regarding your statement that DJB's POV on the matter has no broad support amongst his peers? I'm not in the field but Bernstein seemed like a highly respected member with a long track record in the crypto community, at least from the outside. Do you think the community is wrong or is it DJB who's wrong and why? There's also a good chance that I totally missed the argument being made.
Downthread we develop more clarity about what it is Bernstein is actually in an argument about. It isn't hybrids vs. pure!
tptacek wants to be seen as a good feminist ally because his feminist wife would castrate him otherwise. So, he #BelievedWomen, and part of that is making sure you shun the unbelievers. Thus, djb is to be criticized by tptacek at every opportunity.
I'm sure there's a game-theoretic optimum choice when it comes to accepting proposals from the NSA vs rejecting them out of hand, but I'm not sure what that optimal choice is.
https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013...
How many of them spoke before on this mailing list, in any capacity what so ever? I suspect this is 99% people who showed up because you organized a brigadging, because you incited people and told them to show up and be completely outraged.
There's a >0% chance that DJB could be correct that there is some risk to this spec (which notably is not seeking recommendation status! So WTF?) The people approving and wanting this aren't fools, aren't lackies, aren't some great foe. There's little real opposition? Making up ghosts and enemies lurking in every corner, brigading people to show up in IETF meetings, who have never participated before, just to spread heat and anger you've programmed them for, is ignoble & indecent.
All too recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48760490 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48811887
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but some extremely important RFCs are only on the “informational” track. RFCs 1945 (HTTP 1.0), 4627 (JSON), 2818 (HTTPS), etc.
/s
The government has intentionally acted to weaken DES, standardized Dual_EC_DRBG, performed subtle subterfuge through interfering how NIST operates to inject weaknesses and vulnerabilities, trying to weaken SSL and IPSec, 4G smartphone encryption.
These are all documented examples of the NSA engaging in bad faith. So whether or not it is happening in this particular case, there’s now just zero trust in the institutions acting in good faith. And given it took decades for the actions to come out after they were taken, how do you expect someone to answer your request to present evidence there’s anything nefarious happening now?
Anyway, that’s what I think a fleshed out argument would look like
“The road to developing this standard was smooth once the journey began... However, beginning the journey was a challenge in finesse ... After some behind-the-scenes finessing with the head of the Canadian national delegation and with C.S.E., the stage was set for N.S.A. to submit a rewrite of the draft ... Eventually, N.S.A. became the sole editor.”
https://macleans.ca/society/technology/nsa-says-it-finessed-...