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56% Positive

Analyzed from 4404 words in the discussion.

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#fentanyl#mafia#drug#drugs#more#customers#https#less#market#different

Discussion (173 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

gumby•about 3 hours ago
It’s CLV (customer lifetime value): the integral of the MRR. Something most companies mentioned on HN should understand though it feels like Apple is the only one that takes it seriously

(And with Apple’s new CEO, the early signs are that commitment is headed for the ash heap as well, but it seems the Mafia may have a longer horizon)

Smalltalker-80•about 2 hours ago
The Mafia may also have shorter horizon: - Fantanyl 'customers' have munch higher risk of sudden-death and then stop being customers. - Fentanyl is a much more debilitating drug than heroin and much cheaper. So Fentanyl customers are less able to gather the money for the next fix, and don't need as much (less revenue).
moralestapia•12 minutes ago
That's what CLV means, dude ... come on.
sandworm101•about 1 hour ago
More than simply being alive, they want customers who can stay employed and so continue to pay higher prices over a greater number of years. Cocaine and pot are horrible but their users can maintain a working life for years or decades, making them more profitable drugs in the long term.
sitkack•23 minutes ago
> Cocaine and pot are horrible

citation needed

shevy-java•about 2 hours ago
> Fantanyl 'customers' have munch higher risk of sudden-death and then stop being customers

The Mafia kills people directly. That's a sudden-death right there.

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c39mr81j2j1o

alienbaby•about 2 hours ago
though this is controlled and planned, I assume. As opposed to random numbers of customers dropping dead whenever they feel like it.
camdenreslink•about 1 hour ago
At much much lower rates than accidental overdose rates assuredly.
eightnoneone•about 2 hours ago
What do you see as signs? I was hopeful that Ternus’s hardware background was a positive.
Xenoamorphous•about 2 hours ago
gumby•about 2 hours ago
Yes, this is the problem I was referring to. There is internal opposition but the exec team will clearly turn over in the next few years (due to retirement) which will inherently bring in a team more aligned with the CEO’s objectives.
satvikpendem•about 1 hour ago
People will complain but ultimately won't actually move away from the Apple ecosystem for it to matter to Apple.
boringg•about 2 hours ago
Wait what are the signs that the new Apple CEO commitment is headed for the heap? Seriously asking
gumby•29 minutes ago
Ternus and Cue are full bore on increasing the number of ads shown in apps and otherwise scattered through their devices. This is explicitly the opposite of Apple’s philosophy until recently and Schiller is stepping back reputedly due to his opposition to this approach.

The idea appears to be to sell the devices as a vehicle for showing ads (incremental ARR) over selling them for their intrinsic customer value. You expect this kind of thing from shitty industries like cars or Google or Facebook. But this used to be an explicit “no go” for Apple.

boringg•12 minutes ago
That is too bad - how do you get the reins of a company that size with something antithesis to their product and identity? I hope he doesn't start trying to monetize privacy.
setopt•about 1 hour ago
To be a bit critical, haven’t Apple software and hardware quality been getting worse for years even before the new CEO?

Apple Silicon was the exception, that was truly transformative. But other things, like how polished and snappy the OS feels, seems to have been getting steadily worse.

gumby•28 minutes ago
I think the hardware has improved a lot over the past decade, not always in visible ways. I think this is true even if you disregard the replacement of the butterfly keyboard.
boxed•32 minutes ago
Hardware has been improving a lot since the low point of butterfly keyboards and no ports. Jony Ive went out the door and things improved. Then on the software side they course corrected recently after Alan Dye left. I have hope the software improvements will start to accellerate.
bilekas•about 3 hours ago
I'm no expert, but I've always thought that adding much more risk to the lives of your customers unnecessarily is not good for business.
Someone•about 3 hours ago
In this market, a better high for less money will attract lots of customers, even if it is less healthy than the alternative.

So, if you’re in the business of selling the somewhat healthier product, and one supplier starts to supply the otherwise superior product, that’s not good for business, either. You will lose customers.

Now, do you accept that, saying “I won’t sell that”, do you fight to outlaw the product (will be hard given at you’re not selling healthy products, either), do you fight the suppliers of the new product (a gang war) or do you add the product to your inventory?

There often isn’t a clear choice; each option has its pros and cons.

compass_copium•about 2 hours ago
Fentanyl is not a better high. It's decidedly less euphoric than traditional opioids. It's just dirt cheap, ridiculously potent so it's easier to traffic, and doesn't have any agricultural footprint. The market pressure for fent is completely on the supply side.
bigfishrunning•about 2 hours ago
"less healthy" is a bit of an understatement; they're not selling cigarettes that will kill you in the long term (or even the medium or short term). Fentanyl will kill you the first time you're exposed to it.

Increasing the potency of some drug with fentanyl is an interesting choice, because by the time the user *knows* how strong it is, there's some likelihood they're already dead.

Someone•about 2 hours ago
> Fentanyl will kill you the first time you're exposed to it.

Its lethal dose is a lot smaller than that of heroin, but it isn’t guaranteed to kill. If it were, why is it used so much in medicine?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fentanyl: “Fentanyl is a highly potent synthetic opioid of the piperidine family, used primarily as pain medication

[…]

In 2015, 1,600 kilograms (3,500 pounds) were used in healthcare globally.

It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines.”

throwaway63467•about 2 hours ago
I guess if you’re the mafia you just murder the competitors. Can’t have stronger regulation than that!
mdp2021•about 3 hours ago
And: shaking the scene in a way that will attract too much attention, including crackdowns, is very bad for business.
scyzoryk_xyz•about 3 hours ago
Almost like it's not really about "business" at all and something more is going on for all the parties involved
joinHNtheysaid•about 3 hours ago
Yes, internal destabilizing of the oppossition is a tried and well working oractice of inter empire warfare..
mdp2021•about 3 hours ago
Soon after John Stewart Mill we assessed that markets are not perfect.

Accelerations in the different directions of bounded incentives create as-if Brownian motions, - not the stability towards optimality of a perfect organic model.

Or: what you write is rational, but people are easily not... The supply side should disappear from the market when irrational, but changes are slow..

UpsideDownRide•about 3 hours ago
Did we? Because while seemingly obvious nowadays it is not a settled matter in orthodox econ academia.
mdp2021•about 2 hours ago
Yes. Everybody here should be or get acquainted with Herbert Simon - he is both "Logic Theory Machine" and "General Problem Solver" and "linked lists", and "bounded rationality" and "satisficing".

Herbert Simon - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herbert_A._Simon

arealaccount•about 3 hours ago
If its cheap enough to be worth letting a few customers churn, then profits will be positive
philipallstar•about 3 hours ago
When there are enough customers, individual customers do not matter.
whycome•about 3 hours ago
Making it up with volume
Mistletoe•about 2 hours ago
Maybe the mafia saw the population curves and realized how precious each customer is now and will be in the future. Something tech companies would be wise to think about...

https://www.macrotrends.net/global-metrics/countries/ita/ita...

And the curve is the same across almost all the world. Italy is 1.3, you need 2.1 to even tread water and keep the population you have. Who buys the stocks and fentanyl when each year you have less and less buyers?

markus_zhang•about 2 hours ago
Now we have the unions, we have the gambling - and they're the best things to have - but narcotics is the thing of the future. Now if we don't get a piece of that action, we risk everything we have. I mean, not now, but ten years from now.
dgellow•about 3 hours ago
Might want to look at the cigarette industry
mdp2021•about 3 hours ago
Kills you very late, gives all the time to reap.

Curiously, this is still relevant to my comment nearby about "slow effect models" ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49842956 ).

justonceokay•about 3 hours ago
When the risk is the benefit things get weird
retired•about 3 hours ago
You just need to keep your customers alive long enough.

70% of food in the supermarket is ultra processed. But as long as people make it to 65 years old they are still good customers. That is still 50 years of sales.

TeMPOraL•about 1 hour ago
> 70% of food in the supermarket is ultra processed.

Yes. And 70% of Earth atmosphere is nitrogen.

The two figures have about the same relevance to health.

nemo44x•about 2 hours ago
I think it’s what customers want though as it gets you higher and closer to that high they’re always chasing. That it can kill you is a marketing feature if anything.
petesergeant•about 3 hours ago
The rest of the economics behind fentanyl are great for drug producers vs heroin though, so it probably doesn't matter?
dfxm12•about 3 hours ago
Tell this to junk food manufacturers...
SXX•about 3 hours ago
Junk food dont have a chance to kill a person on first try or high chances to kill them withih a year or so.
Lio•about 2 hours ago
I was going to make a joke about how it depends on how fast you eat it but you're absolutely right.

Tobacco is incredibly damaging but because it doesn't kill you right away we tolerate it.

There's probably a rather grim metric that defines time to death ratio for addictive substances somewhere in a government report.

master-lincoln•about 2 hours ago
I think you are right, but doesn't that mean the consequences of fentanyl do not weigh in on society as badly as junk food? Dead people do not cause extra costs for the rest of society
thefz•about 3 hours ago
They still traffic heroin though, which is not stellar for customer's life expectancy.
be8e9dmrro•about 3 hours ago
For big pharma it is great business! Life long debiliating condition, that requires medication to manage... acceptable risk to customers is around 5% yearly mortality rate!

Helthy people do not contribute to big pharma!

oefrha•about 2 hours ago
Oxycontin was built on the idea of turning a drug (MS Contin) for the terminally ill (too small a market) to a lifelong dependency for as many people as possible, and each taking as many milligrams as possible.
bluGill•about 2 hours ago
I know several doctors who mourn the addiction issues with Oxycontin because it was so useful for a lot of cases. Give someone some Oxycontin, then you can address the root problems, and then get them off - works very well... Now they won't give it to anybody - those addicted know exactly what to say to sound like the people who really need it.
qoez•about 3 hours ago
I always assumed this was an america-only drug that no one actually does or at least not to the excess that it's claimed by the publications using it for the normal fear journalism purposes.
ozlikethewizard•about 3 hours ago
Its gaining popularity in the UK and is starting to show up sporadically, but the opiod epidemic provided pretty extreme fuel to start the fire in America. No idea if itll ever take off here to the extent heroin did, depends on the economy I guess.
gwbas1c•40 minutes ago
It's very appealing to smugglers because its ultra-high potency means that a massive amount of doses is very, very tiny.

Thus, no surprise that it shows up elsewhere.

karolist•about 1 hour ago
based on documentary style interviews I've seen of drug addicts in Lithuania, there's supposedly no more old school heroin left on the streets, it's been pushed out by fent.
0xbadcafebee•about 3 hours ago
2/3 of all ODs in US. More deaths per year than gun violence and car collisions combined, which are both quite high in US. Seventh most common cause of death overall. Over a quarter million people dead since 2018.
catchnear4321•about 2 hours ago
it’s an issue in that not everyone using it even knows they are using it. maybe you think your plug is a great hookup for grey market pharmaceuticals. or are they?

selling “oxycodone”? maybe don’t bother acquiring oxycodone at all—press fentanyl into a convincing little blue pill and sell that instead.

selling “adderall”? methamphetamine is cheaper. counterfeit xanax? who knows what benzo is actually in it.

customer might not find out. customer might not even live.

mafia seems delightfully old school about this. they know business. this is bad business.

criley2•about 3 hours ago
No one "does" fentanyl, it's a highly addictive additive that is secretly added to other things. Even so, 50,000 - 70,000 Americans per year die to it (more than suicide and gun violence many other things).

This is an "American" thing because fent primarily comes from Mexican cartels (Sinaloa and Jalisco New Generation).

They buy precursors from China, they produce it in labs in Mexico, and then smuggle it into America where they kill 50,000 to 70,000 Americans per year.

Not getting political here -- but what would you think if organized crime in a neighboring country was murdering 50,000 to 70,000 of your countrymen per year?

Eyas•about 2 hours ago
Some things to correct here:

- While drugs laced with fentanyl are also a problem, lots of people _do_ knowingly consume fentanyl. In fact, it has replaced Heroin in the US 'market', for example. It is also a contaminant in other drugs (cocaine, meth), due to how easy it is for fentanyl to stay in crevices, etc. It is also 'snuck in' to counterfeit pills, which is the only aspect you mention.

- The traffickers physically moving fentanyl into the country are overwhelmingly Americans. Pre 2019 traffickers used to get this straight from China, but stricter controls in China have shifted things to be staged in Mexico instead.

- The demand and traffickers are still largely American, and it is a "symbiotic" problem. US drug demand is empowering Mexican cartels and making everyday Mexicans less safe (the cartels also get most of their guns from the US). At the same time, powerful Mexican cartels mean it is much easier to "stage" fentanyl in Mexico then import it into the US than the older model of importing it directly from China.

master-lincoln•about 3 hours ago
It's not murder. People are not forced to take fentanyl... Wouldn't these people get into a different drug if it wasn't fentanyl?
geoduck14•about 2 hours ago
While I agree that "murder" is the wrong word, there is an angle that you are missing.

Drug dealers will lace "normal" drugs with fentanyl. It gives a "different buzz". The customer knows they are buying "normal" drugs, and there is no quality control, so lacing happens. If the dealer messes up how much they lace, it is easy to add too much (because a small amount t of fentanyl goes a long way), and your customer ODs.

javier123454321•about 2 hours ago
A lot of times people think they're getting a different drug that happens to be laced
foobarian•about 2 hours ago
As Arturo Salazar said, "Addicts? They treat themselves... they overdose, and there is one less to worry about." Dark movie
criley2•about 2 hours ago
So if you bought a bottle of water, and inside of that water was a poison that kills you, intentionally added by a criminal because it makes them more profit, that's not murder?

Those people were doing a line of coke, they had no idea they were about to overdose on an opioid.

mapkkk•about 2 hours ago
I would argue that fent became an issue only after the oxycontin et al. peddling was slowly curtailed; together with fent precursors becoming absurdly cheap to procure and process, compared to other opiates. Users originally hooked on the pills needed a replacement, and as suddenly the chemistry got much cheaper, everyone switched to fent. The physical volume of illicit substance you need to smuggle is also lower with fentanyl, so I'm sure that would have played into this trend as well.

If you want to find where to point the finger to, the systems that let prescription opiates be prescribed with such reckless abandon is a good superficial target. Getting political here - if you want to find the very root cause of all this, I would present the institutions that prevent the implementation or otherwise erode preexisting social safety-nets as the culpable party.

mexicocitinluez•about 1 hour ago
> would argue that fent became an issue only after the oxycontin et al.

No, the pain pill debacle of the early aughts actually led to heroin usage.

What caused the rise of fentanyl was the US getting out of Iraq and Afghanistan and the Taliban (or whoever took over) burning the poppy fields.

ulimn•about 3 hours ago
But who buys these drugs with fentanyl and why? There might a link I'm missing, sorry! :)
mbil•about 2 hours ago
Here’s reporting on the fentanyl crisis, covering who buys the drugs and why

https://youtu.be/925wmb-4Yr4

geoduck14•about 2 hours ago
It is typically laced into other drugs. A small amount of fentanyl is highly powerful, so if you mix it into heroine, you get a different buzz. But if you (a drug dealer, not a chemist) mess up and drop too much, then your customer will accidentally OD.
bulletsvshumans•about 2 hours ago
It's incorporated into pills that appear to be equivalent to prescribed opioids like Oxycodone. From buyer perspective it's just a cheap opioid pill.
criley2•about 2 hours ago
Tiny bits of fentanyl are added to a variety of recreational drugs used extensively by all kinds of people, rich and poor. They add it to cocaine, heroin, meth and even marijuana. They imitate oxy, percocet, vicodin, xanax and adderal using fent laced pills as well.

As much as 20% of Americans use these recreational drugs. Europeans on average use recreational drugs like half as much as Americans, maybe 10% use them.

nkrisc•about 2 hours ago
They’re not coming here and forcibly injecting people. Maybe we should be asking ourselves why so many are choosing the oblivion offered by drugs similar to and including fentanyl.

The only reason they’re selling it is because people are buying it.

It’s an American problem.

skeptic_ai•about 1 hour ago
What about the American McDonald’s that kills much more in Europe?
xienze•about 2 hours ago
> but what would you think if organized crime in a neighboring country was murdering 50,000 to 70,000 of your countrymen per year?

Well obviously I would think it's highly racist to take any action against them or try to secure the border in any way.

mdp2021•about 1 hour ago
Is this the phenomenon you try to refer to?

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2026/sep/01/milo-yiannop...

> take any action

Action must be surgical. Even with mosquitoes - with humans, you figure.

I am shocked at how you can suppose you can propose zero quality like that here.

achenet•about 1 hour ago
> Not getting political here -- but what would you think if organized crime in a neighboring country was murdering 50,000 to 70,000 of your countrymen per year?

I'd blame myself for giving them that market, and then I'd start pushing hard for a drug policy that actually makes sense, as opposed trying to continue a policy of drug prohibition which has spent the last 100+ years [0] completely failing to do anything but give money to criminals whilst having almost no effect on actual drug consumption.

The government's job is to protect its taxpayers. If the taxpayers have a demand for drugs, which is clearly the case with the US, then the government should stop cosplaying a pearl-clutching 19th-century Victorian housewife and start regulating the drug trade properly, the way it does with alcohol and cigarettes.

Will this solve all problems? No. So long there is misery in the world, there will be people trying to escape that misery.

But at least American opiate addicts will have fewer overdoses, and therefore hopefully contribute more to tax revenue.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prohibition_in_the_United_Stat...

pluc•about 3 hours ago
This was the way it worked up here (in QC) with the 81s. If you sold shit that could draw attention to you, your organization or suppliers, you were swiftly taught not to. They had decent quality control, but as their grip slipped so did quality. Now we get fentanyl overdoses weekly.
skrebbel•about 3 hours ago
I googled so y'all don't have to: "QC" means Quebec. 81 means Hell's Angels as per sister comment.
nsavage•about 3 hours ago
I'll be honest, this was helpful for me even as someone who lives about 2km from the Quebec border. I was uncertain as you don't often see it in the Hacker News context.
pluc•about 3 hours ago
We gotta take back the letter Q man, it's either us or Qatar and I don't see them campaigning. There's dozens of us!
skrebbel•about 2 hours ago
Plus it’s a weird abbreviation! Like Ontario isn’t “OO”. Or does the C in Quebec stand for Canada? That’s kinda weird too tbh.
newsclues•about 3 hours ago
81 = Hells Angels

Who these days are more a front org for the CCP/triads who seem to be running much of the criminal underworld in Canada with their network of smuggling and money laundering.

My theory is that the CCP/triads leveraged drug addiction within the HA and killed anyone that objected, and everyone else got rich...

pluc•about 3 hours ago
There's been a criminal civil war raging between HAs and every other smaller org that wants to expand (look at Blood Family Mafia specifically, Arab Power as well). HAs have lost some feathers in pretty gruesome ways. They're all older and neglected to replenish the ranks in order to preserve prestige. Street gangs didn't. If I'm competing in that world, I'm funding the underdogs until leadership trembles, then we make a deal. I believe we're at that point now. All those groups - including the Sicilians - have all been slowly invalidated and Angels are appearing more stable/powerful these days (even though we just outlawed their colours - but even that gives them prestige).
newsclues•about 3 hours ago
Montreal and Quebec is only one part of the criminal world in Canada.

Ontario is different, East Coast is different, prairies are different and the West Coast is it's own beast.

HA uses puppet gangs, so while their power may be diminished, they are still lurking in the background, as key nodes for drugs, money and guns.

The power lost by the HA and traditional mafia has largely been taken over by CCP/triads groups. The Indian and Iranian OC are under the Chinese, who have deep into the government and economy as major developers. Read Sam Cooper.

hnrprtlpdb•about 4 hours ago
Did wastewater drug monitoring for a while, and the annoying bit was fentanyl metabolites sitting near the detection limit, so absence isn't proof.
vintermann•about 3 hours ago
From what I understand this uses overdose numbers. They should also not be assumed to be comparable across countries (recording practices vary widely), but if they tell the same story as wastewater monitoring there may be something to it.
tantalor•about 2 hours ago
If it's below the noise floor, then you didn't really detect it, did you.
bluGill•about 2 hours ago
Statistics can detect a lot of things below the noise floor given enough samples. However there are a lot of questions when it attempts this.
dmos62•about 3 hours ago
Was that because there wasn't much fentanyl use or because fentanyl metabolites are somehow harder to detect?
vintermann•about 3 hours ago
I assume drugs that are potent in tiny quantities leave less metabolites.
artisinal•about 3 hours ago
Does wastewater drug monitoring account / offset for constipation caused by drug use?

There isn't anything to measure if the poop is unable to leave the end-user.

rithdmc•about 2 hours ago
I believe it's urine based.

Either way, the constipation would affect different users at different times, so I don't think it would matter to the data. In other words, your idea stinks ;)

artisinal•about 2 hours ago
Well if the user dies of constipation the poop never enters the sewer :)
astura•about 2 hours ago
Drugs are detected in urine, not feces.
jmpman•about 1 hour ago
I've had a friend pass from an OD, when consuming what he thought was cocaine, which was actually laced with fentanyl. I wonder if the Italian mafia has a more profitable cocaine market, and don't want it contaminated, as is likely to happen with fentanyl, as the cocaine market, which I assume is recreational, would contract.
m101•about 1 hour ago
There is not that much difference between the state and a mafia. The fact that the mafia has successfully managed to keep out fentanyl shows just how much democratically elected states are failing their citizens. This outcome is not surprising.
pas•8 minutes ago
Lot of democratically elected states are also good at "keeping fentanly out".
spacephysics•4 minutes ago
This is a bit of a straw man “do the ends justify the means” statement, with hints of anarchism read between the lines.

Western democracies haven’t really prioritized “war on drugs” (for lack of a better term) over the last probably 10ish years. Yeah there’s still funding and initiatives and some lip service.

Instead the focus has been largely infighting and major political factions fighting for political power in the next generation (“tech bros” political class for one)

So it’s no surprise state-sponsored (and just demand driven) drug trafficking into the US hasn’t received much action.

There is some hope though. With rare earth mineral access being a major national security priority, and many cartels controlling those areas in SA, the converging interests may produce some net positive. Background: https://youtu.be/q_n-74ifBZs?is=nw5g-mmPmKphGH2W

mr_00ff00•43 minutes ago
It’s way easier to keep fentanyl out of drugs when you are distributing the drugs.

The government can’t regulate a black market.

TremendousJudge•7 minutes ago
The government can’t regulate a black market, but they could stop the charade of illegal drugs, convert the black market into a regular market, and regulate that. Suddenly you get less fentanyl overdoses, better outcomes for addicts (they're not criminals anymore), AND you remove the power of drug cartels (they'll still exist, but will compete with each other through less murder-y means, like any other capitalist company). Plus, stabilize a lot of third world countries where illegal drug production and export is a big part of the economy, which is what allows the cartels to fight and corrupt the state.

Or, just keep doing what they're doing. It's bound to work eventually, right? Drug cartels are definitely growing less powerful every year, the war of drugs is being won, rate of addiction is going down.

mktemp-d•36 minutes ago
This is a false equivalence, which means equating two things based on surface similarities while ignoring key differences.

The Mafia keeping fentanyl out isn't a public service. It's a cartel protecting its own drug market, which says nothing about whether democratic states ( globally ) are failing their citizens.

dotcoma•about 3 hours ago
And who is keeping it out of the other European countries?
criley2•about 3 hours ago
Fentanyl is made by Mexican cartels from Chinese precursors. I suppose there aren't many Mexico's with massive organized crime networks in Europe to pour deadly drugs into their countries.
boelboel•about 2 hours ago
Guinea-bissau is basically a narco state, much more so than Mexico, and has deep ties with latin-american cartels. They transport their drugs in the sahel with the help of jihadists. The same jihadists get funding from moroccans to smuggle their hash. These networks got deep networks within Europe (e.g. in Belgium and Netherlands). It might not be as bad yet but could turn worse quickly.
master-lincoln•about 2 hours ago
what do you think where europe gets their cocaine from...
TFNA•about 2 hours ago
Not Mexico. Cocaine is a South American product and there is a direct route to Europe (or, sometimes, indirect via e.g. Guinea-Bissau).
bigfishrunning•about 2 hours ago
The same place Mexico gets it; Colombia, Bolivia, Nicaragua. Mexico just isn't "on the way" in the same way for Europe.
shell0x•37 minutes ago
The Singapore model is to execute all the dealers.
bell-cot•16 minutes ago
That I've heard, on the street, the Mafia is a credible alternative state power in a fair fraction of Italy. Just one not claiming Democratic ideals, nor much desire to become a nation state or adopt a political agenda.

Wielding power to benefit the ordinary people, long-term, is an age-old sign that those wielding the power have and/or aspire to some level of long-term legitimacy and popular support. Doesn't matter if you're looking at early Chinese dynasties, Old Testament kings, or modern authoritarian states banning non-government organizations.

genericacct•about 3 hours ago
I'm afraid some crime syndicates have found out they can just steal it from hospitals, some 80 vials went missing from the ospedale israelitico in Rome during the summer and there are already reports of an increase of users in the outskirts of the city..
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lawgimenez•about 3 hours ago
From what I’ve read online Ndrangheta are much more powerful than the mafia in Italy.
qubex•31 minutes ago
“Le Mafie” includes Cosa Nostra (Sicilian mafia) ‘Ndrangheta (Calabrian mafia), Camorra (Napolitano mafia), Sacra Corona Unita (Pugliese mafia), Banda della Magliana (Roman mafia), Mala del Brenta (Veneto mafia) and others (but I’m no expert, I’m from Milan).
simonh•about 3 hours ago
That’s arguably true, but nowadays Mafia or the plural “le Mafie” (the Mafias) is often used as a catch all term for such organised crime groups in Italy, with the Sicilians referred to as the Cosa Nostra.
GreenLightGo•about 2 hours ago
Humanity is being poisoned from all sides. The scariest part is that people willingly go along with it.
mexicocitinluez•about 2 hours ago
The Godfather overly romanticized the mafia and made them out to be "violent but in a principled way" people and nothing could be further from the truth.

It's complete fantasy that the mafia didn't deal hard drugs.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/the-pizza-connection-35th-a...

Orson Welles said it best:

"'The Godfather' was the glorification of a bunch of bums who never existed."

TeMPOraL•about 1 hour ago
Well, I don't buy the "principled" part either, not at scale.

But it is organized, and there's not that much fundamental difference between corporations and criminal enterprises, not in the ways they are run. The details boil down to different trade-offs taken wrt. risk vs. reward related to staying on the good side of the law. A lot of the violence (particularly the "principled"-looking one) seems to stem from the fact that a criminal org needs to built its own layer of coordination and enforcement, since by definition it cannot rely on public services of law enforcement and the legal system.

silverFork•about 2 hours ago
Not in their own backyard!
glimshe•about 3 hours ago
"For years I paid my people extra so they wouldn't do that kind of business. Somebody comes to them and says, 'I have powders; if you put up three, four thousand dollar investment, we can make fifty thousand distributing.' So they can't resist. I want to control it as a business, to keep it respectable. I don't want it near schools! I don't want it sold to children! That's an infamia."

When AI can write screenplays like this one, then it's game over.

dmos62•about 3 hours ago
Expand? This is part of plot to The Godfather. Not what you'd call exotic, I'd think?
glimshe•about 3 hours ago
It's just considered one of the best movies and screenplays of all time. My quote is a relevant line in said movie.
nixon_why69•about 2 hours ago
You missed the kicker at the end where he says just sell it to the blacks, they're animals anyways. Leaving that out makes it sound noble.
loopydosuette•about 3 hours ago
the internet is full of let-me-tell-you-a-quick-story like this one. so AI can and nothing is over, ma dude. nothing will ever be over.
pvaldes•about 3 hours ago
Totally different healthcare systems, and no sane doctor will commit the same mistake again.
aswegs8•about 3 hours ago
Feels like they caught up to internet archive being used to circumvent paywalls. Unfortunate.
kilroy123•about 2 hours ago
If you look at the page with Bypass Paywalls Clean, it shows a service blocked error. They seem to be cracking down hard.
Lucasoato•about 3 hours ago
Can anybody share a non-paywalled link?
shevy-java•about 2 hours ago
> IN “The Godfather”, Don Vito Corleone refuses to engage in the heroin trade because he considers it “a dirty business”.

The movie was well-planned by Francis - but the mafia is a mass-murder organisation, without exception. Japan finally got the better of Yakuza for the most part (it is nowhere near as powerful as it was once); Italy still struggles, in particular with regards to Ndrangheta. So any article that attempts to white-wash the mafia in Italy - nope, sorry, not even good movies such as the godfather should disguise the mass-murder organisation. See how they bombed Giovanni Falcone to death, let's not forget that; and more recently how Ndrangheta executed women (2026; see https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c39mr81j2j1o) who stopped being silent about the genocidal activities of Ndrangheta. Let's put it short: the mafia needs to be eliminated completely. It's not easy since they infiltrated so much in Italy and in parts elsewhere (just study how Capone in the USA got big, then you realise that the USA has an even bigger problem here - plus, fentanyl too), but it has to be done. There is no alternative unless you want organisations to undermine the state and continue its genocidal tendencies. You can be sure they are also involved in smuggling weapons, thus contributing to genocide outside of Italy directly as well.

Please no more white-washing articles of the mafia as glorious heroes "because they keep fentanyl out of Italy". (Besides, this is not even correct to begin with; fentanyal at the least right now, plays a very small role in Europe at best; in the USA this is different. See how Trump tries to blame Canadians for Fentanyl, smuggled via eggs, which is another one of his non-stop lies about Canadians.)

epolanski•about 1 hour ago
A better representation of real Italian mafia in movies is offered by the TV show Gomorrah.

It's a strong antidote to those romanticizing crime.

In US it should be available on HBO Max.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gomorrah_(TV_series)

The first two seasons are great, watch it with subtitles (fun fact: in Italy it was also shown in tv with subs because most people cannot understand neapolitan dialect).

TheMayorOfDunce•17 minutes ago
it is absolutely critical to watch Gomorrah in Italian. The English dubs are comically poor quality (think of how MS Word used to emotionlessly read text aloud).
mexicocitinluez•about 1 hour ago
Thank you. I said the same thing in another comment.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/the-pizza-connection-35th-a...

> 'The Godfather' was the glorification of a bunch of bums who never existed.

— Orson Welles

be8e9dmrro•about 3 hours ago
Why not goverment "is keeping fentanyl out of italy"?

If you would sell unaproved medication during covid, you would get several years in prison.

Why someone who sells unapproved medication without prescription, gets released and can keep selling this stuff? Medication thst kills people!!!

pjc50•about 1 hour ago
Of course it's illegal, as always with the drug war the problem is finding people who sell it.