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74% Positive

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#linux#french#europe#https#more#government#source#don#microsoft#open

Discussion (294 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

idoubtit2 days ago
The chain of facts makes me sad:

1. The French government announces its digital agency is to write a plan, by the end of the year, so that France could reduce its extra-European dependencies. The communiqué is wrapped up with minor facts (e.g. the digital agency is to switch to Linux on dozens of computers) and big promises from Ministers.

2. Various news sites state that "France is ditching Windows", at least in their titles.

3. On new aggregators, most people react to the titles. Some do read the articles. Very few realize it's about promises to act toward a vague goal, with an unknown calendar, and many political uncertainties.

I would have hoped for more cautious reactions. It's not a leading act, not a reason to be proud, not a example to follow. It's just words.

The French government already made similar promises in the past. Sometimes, it did happen, like the Gendarmerie (rural police) switching to a Linux distribution. Sometimes, it didn't, like the pact signed by the Army Ministry with Microsoft in 2022: many clauses are still secret, even the prices.

raincole2 days ago
This is EU, what else do you expect? European officials saying they're ditching Windows has become a ritual:

https://www.linuxjournal.com/content/german-open-source-expe...:

> The German Foreign Office first moved over to Linux as a server platform in 2001... the Foreign Office of Germany made the announcement (translated news report) that it is migrating away from Linux back to Windows as its desktop solution.

https://interoperable-europe.ec.europa.eu/collection/open-so...:

> By December 2013, the city concluded the migration, with over 14,800 desktops running on LiMux... In November 2017, nearly four years after the conclusion of the migration, the Munich city council adopted a decision overhauling the move. All equipment was to be refitted with Windows 10 counterparts by 2020

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wienux:

> WIENUX[2] is a Debian-based Linux distribution developed by the City of Vienna in Austria... until 2008 when the download page was taken offline.

https://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/POST...:

> Birmingham City Council piloted OSS on hundreds of desktops in its public libraries in 2005-6. It originally planned to install Linux ... but this was over-ambitious for the time frame of the project and compatibility problems meant that the open source OpenOffice (office suite) and Firefox (web browser) were eventually run on Windows XP

AlotOfReading2 days ago
The LiMux/Munich saga was actually successful to a large degree. What happened is that Microsoft put enormous efforts into killing it. High level people like Steve ballmer and Bill Gates made personal visits to Munich officials to win them back, Microsoft put a headquarters in Bavaria, and there were huge concessions. It's about as far as you can get from the image of empty promises and no action.
oaiey1 day ago
And the Microsoft headquarter of Germany is in Munich. Tha means also potential tax losses if Microsoft moves away.
bigfudge1 day ago
Those attempts happened before the US really made such a concrete demonstration it was a security and strategic risk though. That was back in the good old days where they at least pretended to be strategic partners.

It's good to be sceptical, but the US really does present a clear danger to the EU and UK now (and the rest of the world). I'm hopeful that this will actually materialise this time, and that Munich and Birmingham and the others will have paved the way and built some expertise.

oaiey1 day ago
Yes. Back then it was anti-mega-cooperations/financial/pro-privacy stance, but now it is a sovereignity thing.
gunsleabout 22 hours ago
The Reddit tier anti America FUD on this site never fails to get a chuckle out of me. Every single day the discussion here gets lower and lower quality.
wolvoleoabout 21 hours ago
They are already part of the way. They use "la suite" pretty extensively, it's an office suite based on open source components.

Migrating from windows as an OS is a logical next step.

Also the gendarmerie has their own dedicated Linux distribution for all their workstations as you mentioned. The French certainly have put in the work. It's not just talk.

Departed74051 day ago
France'a Gendarmerie (one of two branch of law-enforcement) has switched to linux for more than a decade. There is little reason to think they are bluffing. Furthermore, the groundwork has been laid for months, with forks being worked on.

I understand your take generally, but here I don't understand the skepticism.

oaiey1 day ago
Not only that, they already built up Matrix for messaging which is already adopted elsewhere. They are doing the steps
icar2 days ago
dopidopHN21 day ago
You could be more pointed than that. French secret service "leveraging" Palantir is a disgrace , we all know who is leveraging who and its a plain shame.
jrm41 day ago
It shouldn't make you sad, it should make you curious.

Broadly, I've observed that there's way way way too little discussion of the extent to which money and power, somewhat behind the scenes, can be thrown at what feels like "tech decisions."

A while back, here in Florida, a state representative had a relative who was kind of into open source and had it explained to him. Representative was like "oh interesting idea, Florida should look into doing more of this"

And the suits from Microsoft came down swiftly to "correct" matters.

slibhb2 days ago
Performative anti-Americanism has become one of the major features of European culture (and especially French culture).
x3ro2 days ago
What's performative about not wanting to go down with a sinking ship? Or are you under the illusion that the U.S. is doing particularly well right now? It appears that the "we have the bigger stick" strategy is finally meeting some resistance, and I am happy to see it.
stephen_g1 day ago
I mean it’s not just that, the current administration have destroyed a bunch of the US’s oldest and most important alliances…

I’m not in Europe but in another allied country, the feeling amongst people here is that the US is not able to be trusted as a partner anymore.

And with ways the Government can apply pressure to US companies (CLOUD Act etc.) that extends to IS companies too.

slibhb1 day ago
France deciding, in principle, to come up with a plan for not using Microsoft is performative. It stops being performative when they actually do it. At any rate, is there a good reason for France to stop using Microsoft? I'm doubtful. It's a bit like the DoD declaring Anthropic a "supply chain risk"; basically performative.

To respond to the rest of your post: while the Trump administration's behavior has diminished US standing in the world, the US is doing well compared to Europe in many important dimensions (e.g. economic growth). Also, far-right parties in Europe seem much more dangerous than the right in the US.

But all of that is a side show. European skepticism of the US has its roots in the postwar era. It's fundamentally about resentment. Europe is geopolitically weak and depends on the US for defense which is galling, especially for France with its history as a global power.

will4274about 19 hours ago
In 2025, USA GDP grew by 2.0%. In 2025, EU GDP grew by 1.5%. Government spending (a proxy for government power) is a fraction of GDP, usually between 10% of GDP and 30% of GDP.

So, while the US may not be doing particularly well right now, it's still doing better than Europe.

YZF1 day ago
Well said on the site of Y-Combinator. A US company ran by Americans that mostly funds startups in the US. Clearly the US, the home of Apple, nVidia, Anthropic, Open AI, SpaceX, Google, Meta, Amazon, Tesla etc. is sinking while the EU the home of (? ... well, there is ASML) is going to be running the world.

Linus works on Linux from ... Portland, Oregon. And oh, look at where Linux contributions are coming from:

https://insights.linuxfoundation.org/project/korg/contributo...

EU's GDP is so catching up with the US:

https://econofact.org/factbrief/fact-check-has-the-economic-...

NOT

vrganj1 day ago
As a European, the Anti-Americanism is not performative.

It's a deep disconnect in values, brought to the forefront by the current administration and the oligarchs running wild.

America used to be seen as an example, the big brother watching out for us.

Now it's a cautionary tale of greed, hubris and societal decay, as well as an increasingly antagonistic actor of global instability.

Y'all ruined your reputation and the fact you're trying to pin that on us is just another example of said hubris. Until you at least own up to it, there's no viable path to recovery.

gunsleabout 22 hours ago
There’s nothing more hilarious to me than neck beard euros waxing poetic about America doing them dirty while simultaneously using “ya’ll” in the very same post. I’ve never once heard a European say ya’ll and I’ve met a lot of them.
slibhb1 day ago
It's mostly performative, and posts like this prove the point.
will4274about 19 hours ago
You're right about the values disconnect. In America, we believe in democracy and individual rights. In Europe, y'all still have kings and queens and authoritarian governments.
drnick11 day ago
> It's a deep disconnect in values

So, it's performative. While they complain about American hegemony, Europeans buy iPhones (or Android), drink Coke, scroll Instagram, and listen to Taylor Swift. And while they might object to NATO spending, decades of inadequate military spending have left Europe with no real alternative to buying protection from America.

dopidopHN21 day ago
Its moving the needle. There is a lot to be done but its moving
bigfudge1 day ago
The French are just (wonderfully) arrogant enough to say what everyone else is thinking. The UK will likely be too spineless to actually follow through, but the Germans and Eastern Europeans are not going to tolerate the level of exposure we all have to US craziness any longer.
8noteabout 11 hours ago
to be fair, its canada thats knly part french thats saying what everyone is thinking nowadays
will4274about 19 hours ago
The French are just arrogant enough to believe themselves major players on the world stage.
bertil1 day ago
Some big moneyed interests are trying to split Europe and the US.

The current US administration is definitely not helping, but every ad I see on the Reddit main feed is a blatant attack on the relation, from brand new subreddits, pointing at magazines I’ve never heard about before. I’ve been reporting them, but it keeps coming, from constantly different sources, different names, subreddits, but always the same vague but incredible incredibly provocative titles

I suspect that some social-media-addled senior US officials are being fed the same crap because their reactions to non-existent European reaction are not grounded in reality.

overfeed1 day ago
> Some big moneyed interests are trying to split Europe and the US. The current US administration is definitely not helping

Did you listen/read Vance's recent speeches in Hungary? Or read the US policy document put out months back? It goes way beyond merely "not helping" - the US administration is in turns provoking, alienating and separating itself from center/center-left European governments in pursuit of exporting extremist partisan politics in the hopes of getting far-right governments elected across Europe.

European citizens and politicians everywhere can see the actions for what they are. What was that about Greenland and annexing Canada? There's no big-money conspiracy, just a bully administration with no sense of second-and third-order effects.

sveme1 day ago
Trump is all that‘s needed for that. The Greenland saga alone was sufficient. And then he attacked Iran.
mytailorisrich1 day ago
It is always easy to make big announcements but harder to follow through.

They'd need a strong software and tech industry and ecosystem but in general business and economic policy, especially in France, is as hostile as possible and harder to change politically.

selfsigned2 days ago
Really proud as a French, I think the government has had some success with moving to something matrix based for the public sector too. https://tchap.numerique.gouv.fr

I just hope we end up having more wins at the EU-level, instead of massive fails like GAIA-X...

dbdr2 days ago
Also GendBuntu, a custom version of Ubuntu used by 100 000 stations (almost all) of the national gendarmerie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu

Toine2 days ago
"As a French" ne veut rien dire en anglais. Il faut rajouter man, person ou quelquechose. Frenchman, French person, French citizen.
Mindless21122 days ago
The demonym for France is "French," so it's not wrong (even if it doesn't sound right.)
troadabout 3 hours ago
It is wrong, in the sense that native speakers do not say that, and it triggers what linguists call a "grammaticality judgment" in a native speaker. Same as "He eat apple" or "I am go to school". These may be comprehensible utterances, but they do not fit into a native speaker's internal grammar of valid English sentence structures.

Yes, languages can change, but there is no evidence that native speakers have started saying "a French". The only context I've ever seen that in is "As a French...", which strongly implies a non-native speaker of English. The evidence suggests that it's a common language interference error from French, not some future development of English.

japanoise2 days ago
It's not completely wrong, it will be understood, but it is ungrammatical and a clear marker that the speaker is not native, similar to getting adjectives in the 'wrong' order ('a big tasty sandwich' sounds more natural to a native speaker than 'a tasty big sandwich', even though the latter makes sense and will be understood).

Demonyms for historical neighbours of England have irregular forms when speaking of a particular person from there. Scotland has 'Scot' and 'Scotsman'; Wales has 'Welshman'; Spain has 'Spaniard'. Other countries indeed need a second word, such as 'person' or 'citizen' ('a Chinese' sounds offensive to me; I would say 'a Chinese person' in all cases). The only country I can think of where using a bare demonym is grammatical when speaking of a single person from there is Germany with 'a German' - probably because it has the suffix -man.

Edit: A sibling comment pointed out that 'an American' is grammatical, and thinking about it, I think the suffix -an is what makes bare demonyms grammatical - you can say 'an Angolan', 'a Laotian', 'a Peruvian', 'a Moroccan', etc, but wouldn't say 'a Thai', 'a Swedish', 'a Sudanese', etc.

traceroute662 days ago
No.

"French" is adjective or a collective noun, but don't use it as a countable noun.

Trying to say "as a French" makes about as much sense as thinking "as a American" is correct.

As has already been said ... "a French (wo)man","a French person","a French citizen" is the correct way to go.

The reason you can say "an American" is because America starts with a vowel.

Same reason why you would not say "a British" but you could say "a Brit".

estimator72922 days ago
Technically yes the demonym is "French", but "I'm a French" just doesn't work in English. The word 'French' is almost exclusively used in English as an adjective or the name of the language. It is never used as a noun for anything else. So in context, it reads as an adjective without a paired noun.

In English, you have to disambiguate be adding a noun: French person, French citizen, or Frenchman if you're old and inconsiderate.

Similarly, we don't call people "a Chinese". That construction is considered derogatory, if not outright racist. Demonyms typically cannot be used as nouns alone without a suffix. "A Brazilian" or "a Spaniard" are acceptable.

As usual for English, the rules are vague and inconsistent.

Mainan_Tagonist2 days ago
Pedantry attracts dislike. One may be right to state something, yet wrong to call it out in public.
traceroute662 days ago
> Pedantry attracts dislike. One may be right to state something, yet wrong to call it out in public.

Ironically most French people I know would be perfectly receptive and happy to receive corrections in grammar, English or otherwise.

The French tend to be particularly pedantic about the teaching of their own grammar. Most native French speakers are quite used to being swiftly and firmly corrected on grammar from an early age.

gib4442 days ago
Nor "Frenchie" while we're on the topic. It sounds really weird. It's also commonly used to refer to a french bulldog !
japanoise2 days ago
I would think of using 'Frenchie' to refer to a person as being affectionate banter. Like 'Yank' for Americans or 'Canuck' for Canadians. It's not incorrect, but would be inappropriate outside of an informal context.

French people have 'rosbif' to refer to the English and Australians have 'pom' or 'pommie'. You wouldn't call the prime minister that at a diplomatic event, but it's not offensive to call your friends that.

pablomalo1 day ago
"Quelquechose" doesn't mean anything in French. It's written "quelque chose".
redoh2 days ago
The difference between this and Munich's attempt is that France has been building up gradually. They already run Tchap (Matrix-based) for government messaging, and the gendarmerie switched to Linux years ago with over 70k desktops. Munich tried a big-bang migration without enough internal expertise and caved under political pressure when MS moved their HQ there. Schleswig-Holstein in Germany is taking the same incremental approach now and seeing better results. The pattern is pretty clear: governments that treat it as a multi-year capability build succeed, those that treat it as a licensing swap don't.
gib4442 days ago
> Munich tried a big-bang migration without enough internal expertise and caved under political pressure

Almost sounds planned to fail...

gyulai2 days ago
If anything, the lesson to learn from the LiMux failure has nothing to do with technology or with project planning + execution, but with politics. If you extort millions from government as a for-profit business, most of which ends up as pure profit, there is an “emperor's new clothes” dynamic. It aligns the interests of government officials with yours in driving a narrative that there was good value generated for the taxpayer from that taxpayer money you got. Also: You now have those millions in a war fund, which you can use as negotiation mass. (In the case of LiMux and Munich, Microsoft relocated their corporate HQ to Munich as a quid pro quo for the City of Munich abandoning the LiMux project, which directly benefitted the City of Munich because it now got to tax Microsoft in a way that it didn't previously get to do). … these kinds of strategies game theoretically dominate any kind of play that's possible through open source.
mavhc1 day ago
Planned to get a discount from MS at least
mancerayder1 day ago
Has anyone noticed an increased of one-liner controversial commentary, usually assertions, with a bunch of replies, sometimes, "No and no" or something like "this is the right answer" or a bunch of greyed comments?

HN is not Reddit, and that's a Reddit pattern. It's an anti-intellectual pattern because it's a popularity/anger contest and there's nothing of substance.

I'd love to hear the pros and cons and even likelihood of Linux in government, but I'm having trouble finding the smart commentary from the grey noise.

Help!

ddtaylor1 day ago
The amount of money and time wasted because people want to run Windows is staggering. There are organizations and governments running tens of thousands of machines, having highly sensitive data stolen, and much worse and paying for that "privilege."

That's bad enough, but then you get to play the "tick tock" release game of a normal quality release, followed by whatever bizarre experiment comes after. Vista, Metro, and now 11. Features come and go, layers of complexity are added, abandoned, etc. You and your organization are a helpless passenger in a drunk drivers car.

But hey, they'll throw you a few credits sometimes or introduce you to a new predatory side hustle of theirs with a rebranded flavor of vendor lock-in. Maybe they'll help you take something you own and lease it back to you via a subscription.

Yes, I'm the Linux person. Yes, I've been saying these same things for decades. Yes, our system has flaws and could be better. But, what I have been learning that is new over the last few years is that when centralized and crappy systems are a combination of cheap and simple, people don't care about alternatives. Then once people are dug into a hole that only gets deeper it begins to be a much easier sell to just be at ground level looking down asking "You okay there buddy?"

Virtually every problem I read about or hear people complaining about has a direct and simple solution that we in the FOSS community are already doing. Use free and open source software from the repository. Use sandboxing techniques like Flatpak. If you have the need, use something like Qubes. For most cases qemu is so good you can run a separate VM per task! KVM is very good. There are so many solutions and the landscape is wide open.

e-dant2 days ago
Microsoft is a strategic risk for the US, too
trinsic22 days ago
Exactly. I have been thinking about using this migration articles as a way to convince my customers to switch.
Leomuck2 days ago
Microsoft is a strategic risk for everybody, looking at their track records the last few years.. I don't love Linux, but I like it. It's no-bullshit. It doesn't always do everything perfectly, but it has the right mindset. It doesn't want to screw me over.
_ink_2 days ago
Glad that France takes the lead, that Germany fumbled. Allez Les Blues!
mrits2 days ago
France hasn't taken the lead. They haven't done anything. This will be abandoned by this time next year.
jurschreuder1 day ago
We also migrated from Windows to Linux and Mac.

We also migrated from AWS and Azure to European cloud.

But as you can see Mac is still from the USA so although the making things European sounds nice, it's only part of the reason.

Mac has greatly improved with the M chip line. Windows has greatly degraded over time.

AWS and Azure are by now something like 10x the price per year of just buying the hardware yourselves. They always compare the price to the salary of a senior engineer in San Francisco if you include vested stocks.

However installing a database with the correct security settings has also become a lot easier since AWS started.

ddtaylor1 day ago
The negative view of this and framing that it will be abandoned is interesting. France has already transitioned over 100,000 of their machines from Windows to Linux for their police force. They run a modified version of Ubuntu. Yes, it took them near a decade to do it.

There are roughly 80,000 more systems currently in transition at varying levels of complete.

Yes, this new directive is to move towards a goal of 2.5M systems. Yes, that's a lot more than their current number. They are making progress and now have a clear directive that guides them.

tjarjoura2 days ago
This sounds interesting on paper but I wonder how likely it is they actually pull it off. Even putting aside the logistics of installing new oses across a bunch of workstations, migrating from legacy Active Directory domains is something even small enterprises struggle with.
bigfatkitten1 day ago
Even if you don’t view the US as a strategic risk, it is wise to have a plan to not be in Microsoft’s ecosystem.

Microsoft has all but abandoned their self hosted products in favour of cloud, and their cloud services are a security dumpster fire.

Microsoft’s cloud was described as a “pile of shit” but it achieved FedRAMP ATO only because so many agencies were already using their services.

https://www.propublica.org/article/microsoft-cloud-fedramp-c...

Entra ID is full of disastrous design-level bugs like this one.

https://www.theregister.com/2025/09/19/microsoft_entra_id_bu...

Microsoft has deep rooted cultural problems that make the company structurally incapable of fixing their platform.

https://isolveproblems.substack.com/p/how-microsoft-vaporize...

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flossly1 day ago
I prefer this reason, "risk", from the "cost savings" reasons we've seen in Germany, Russia, Germany (Munich at first) and Spain (Extremadura at first)
gsky2 days ago
Finally Europe grew a spine
bpavuk2 days ago
still growing, you mean. France is, however significant, just one country. and then there is broader push to FOSS inside Europe, as well as Europe's own sovereign solutions. some attempts were failed, some were successful, but everything is still in progress

EDIT: on a second read, this sounded too diminishing of this achievement than I intended. the point is that it's not fully done yet, although it is remarkable that there is, finally, a political will for such actions

sdoering2 days ago
Sadly back in the day the city of Munich caved in (hosting Germany's MS headquarter). They had a good good run with their Linux. But the state of Schleswig-Holstein is pushing for more open source and switching to Libre Office (80% or so done). They talk about that on their Open Source Initiative page [1].

[1]: https://www.schleswig-holstein.de/DE/landesregierung/themen/... (German only)

anon2912 days ago
They have a committee to decide whether to plan to grow one. Maybe once they're done funding the war in Ukraine, they'll make a decision.
breppp2 days ago
Less so against China or Iran, presumably Europe will find itself on the "right side of history" yet again soon enough
embedding-shape2 days ago
At least so against Israel and other countries actively engaging in open warfare against sovereign nations, as a European I'm very happy we're not getting pulled into those senseless conflicts.
watwut2 days ago
Europe does not need to join war of the Trumps whim just because king demands it.
breppp1 day ago
I am talking about actively hindering the war effort while getting closer to Iran, a country that repeatedly kidnapped europeans, or caving in for China again and again.

Europe has always managed to make the wrong choice historically, and that's how it still continues

Leomuck2 days ago
Europe as a whole doesn't have or not have a spine.. it'a a huge, complicated accumulation of interests with an insane bureaucratic apparatus behind it.
bigfudge1 day ago
The bureaucratic apparatus in the EU has a reputation for being complex, but a lot of that seems to be bullshit stories written by people like Johnson in the 20 years leading up to Brexit. I've yet to see much evidence it's more complex or corrupt than Federal government in the US, for example.
cmiles82 days ago
They’re still going the almost certainly end up running this on US designed chips, with US designed networking equipment and a bunch of other assets tied back to US companies. They should do what they want, but it’s “sovereignty theater” at best.
omgwtfbyobbq2 days ago
I wouldn't say that. I think it's a proportional response to US tarriffs/changes in foreign policy under the current administration, just like the cancellation of defence contracts/orders.

It's unrealistic for any nation to do everything themselves, but they can make some changes in response to the US starting trade wars, ditching foreign policy/climate objectives, etc...

ghighi78782 days ago
You always have to start somewhere. Whether this will succeed or not is not known, but you do have to start somewhere.
pessimizer1 day ago
Start with not antagonizing China, and you'll have other vendors to chose from.
znnajdla2 days ago
The US or Trump can’t switch off your chips or your networking equipment on a whim - and if they ever designed hardware that could do that, no one would buy such hardware as soon as that capability became known. Using cloud software is a much bigger risk - your access can be turned off anytime and data access is part of the deal.

Sovereignty is not about building everything yourself. Division of labor advances civilization, but it doesn’t have to come at the cost of sovereignty. Sovereignty is about designing the work contract such that you don’t become entirely beholden to another party. You build hardware for me, but after that it’s mine, not yours. I trust you to build the hardware to fulfill that contract, and if you ever break that trust I’ll find someone else to build that hardware. That’s sovereignty. I don’t have to build everything myself.

MaxPock1 day ago
Trump just needs to ask them to jump and they will ask how high.
pvaldes1 day ago
What you are missing is that, unlike US citizens, Europeans don't hesitate to fire their political parties. New parties will appear and take the power. The republicans from Sarkozy were swiftly replaced by Rennaisance by Macron, a party with just ten years of life.

Even more, Sarcozy was jailed later by corruption, a symptom of a healthy democracy that US should try sometime (It would fix a lot of the current and future US problems).

Jumping in the Trump circus in Europe one year ago, maybe could work; now it equals to political suicide after Greenland, the Middle East mess and the more and more obvious symptoms of Trump's dementia and disgusting behaviour. Definitely didn't worked for Elon in the past Germany elections. European politicians are very aware of this, currently.

The elections in Hungary are probably ultra-rigged at this point, but we will see if Vance performing as guest comedian for the pro-Russian party Fidesz will help Orban (or Vance) in the long term.

anigbrowl1 day ago
Rome wasn't built in a day, and its computing and networking technology wasn't replaced in a day either.
Leomuck2 days ago
Maybe, but chips cannot hold you hostage during work. I don't care where things are built (except when they are built somewhere where human rights are being treated like shit), software is what locks you into whatever bullshit the company decides on, not chips. So it is a good step I think. We don't have to be all "we don't use anything from outside the EU" - why? Some countries are better than others at stuff. Fair enough. The movement is about moving away from software monopolies that decide on what you can and can't do, not about having everything inside a certain geographical location.
jhawk282 days ago
AI finding vulnerabilities in open source software is going to make it super unpleasant for a time. I expect there to be a shift back to closed source until we get through that period.
swiftcoder2 days ago
Is there any evidence that GenAI is incapable of redteam'ing proprietary software? This seems like the sort of thing an agent with suitable tooling would be quite good at - I see someone already made an MCP for ghidra...
omgwtfbyobbq2 days ago
That's also a benefit to some degree. Closed source likely has as many vulnerabilities and bugs, but if AI can't find them it'll progressively become less secure.
Rustwerks1 day ago
I suspect that the same AI trick works with binaries if you run them through a decompiler first. It would be interesting to try if I had time.
Leomuck2 days ago
Fair. But also I look at it as a chance. We get to fix lots of bugs. Bugs that bad actors can't use anymore.
pessimizer1 day ago
A million eyes makes no difference when it comes to AI, they're all going to find the same vulnerabilities. Which means that one guy running AI against your closed source software is just about the same as 1000 guys running AI against your FOSS, but most of the people running against your FOSS are going to be doing it to help you, and the people who ran against your closed codebase are never going to tell you about it.

AI finding vulnerabilities and cleaning them up is going to be a budget problem for closed-source software, who have gotten used to ignoring vulnerabilities until somebody screams at them.

Closed source software isn't kept in a magical safe in a cavern deep beneath the earth, guarded by dragons. Half the people in your company touch it every day, and probably plenty of contractors.

jlnthws2 days ago
Nice! Now moving from Windows to Linux is the "easy", visible part. Replacing US cloud + US AI dependence end to end is much harder, and that’s the real deal today.
Leomuck2 days ago
I think you're right. Even though France might not have done much yet, it's a sign many people will read about and maybe think Linux is a good alternative. That's a win in my book.

AI and cloud are another thing altogether. Mistral is alright, open-source AI models are alright, but overall I think they can't compete yet. And I don't think there are fully capable cloud alternatives to AWS, Azure and Google Cloud yet. EU pushing Nextcloud-based alternatives really doesn't fuel confidence honestly. I mean Nextcloud is fine, but that's not the big alternative push we need here.

bigfudge1 day ago
Really though, how many companies actually need Azure, AWS? In my experience in SME's there is _so_ much overcomplication, over-provisioning and overspending going on because there has been a default assumption that US cloud==lower risk.

Governments properly mandating that data be held in the EU, or even in orgs with proper EU entities and checks and balances against US interference in time of conflict would change the game. This is what the EU should be working on... a data residency regime that allows us to use AWS but creates a firewall that allows us to take operational control of the servers if the US continues on it's current path.

jim334421 day ago
I don't see how this strategy can work without the EU basically having a counterpart to Microsoft. You can't beat Windows just uniting around the Linux kernel, it needs to be a whole OS plus an entire ecosystem including cloud.
peter-m802 days ago
should be done at EU level and make it mandatory for all members
harvey92 days ago
France has been doing this in parts of its government functions for years, building expertise and learning what works. What do you imagine the EU institutions would bring to the table?
dbdr2 days ago
Good on France for doing that work.

More countries and/or EU involvement could bring economies of scale: apart from translation, a lot of work on fixing bugs and adding features to the relevant open source projects can be done once and benefit all. So either get the same results faster, more cheaply per country, or both. Sure, that adds some bureaucracy and coordination cost too, but should be worth it overall.

harvey9about 24 hours ago
The EU could perhaps fund some of the work but it is the Cathedral to Linux's Bazaar.
pixel_popping2 days ago
It sounds actually nutts that governments are allowed to run unknown and uncheckable binaries as their(our?) infrastructure.
roysting2 days ago
[flagged]
dang1 day ago
Could you please stop posting personal attacks and flamebait? You've unfortunately been doing it repeatedly. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

Comments like these, and you've unfortunately posted many others like them, are not ok here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47612036

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47580543

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47561644

We ban accounts that keep doing this, so if you'd please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and stick to the rules when posting here, we'd appreciate it.

roystingabout 2 hours ago
What exactly is a flamebait and what was a personal attack?

It seems more like you are rationalizing your personal dislike into justification to use control over others speech in this forum for which you are clearly not qualified. And that is true regardless of what you do or I say.

You were given the power to abuse, I merely have the ability to speak and I will not refrain from speaking, even in jocular and challenging ways, regardless of what you are wont to do.

Do you know what “patronizing” means? You should look it up. It’s really a rather pathetic and vile quality no one should have. Yet here we are.

EinigeKreise2 days ago
You forgot the part where the countries voluntarily join the organisation. By the way, the commission is subject to a vote of confidence by the parliament, which is directly elected. I'm pretty sure you don't get to directly vote for your cabinet members either, wherever you are.
hn_throw20252 days ago
> You forgot the part where the countries voluntarily join the organisation.

It might be worth examining the word “countries” there.

Both France and the Netherlands rejected the proposed EU Constitution by referendum in 2005. It was then regurgitated as the Lisbon Treaty (with only superficial changes) in 2007, which was ratified with no public vote.

The Irish people initially rejected both the EU-empowering treaties of Nice and Lisbon, and a followup vote was considered necessary. You get two bites of the democratic cherry if you have enough power.

A majority of the British people voted to leave in 2016, and in the three years that followed everything possible was done to reverse the decision.

You might be spotting here a difference in desires and power between the governors and the governed.

bhayanisumit061 day ago
I totally agree, this was long time coming.
ChrisArchitect1 day ago
Again? what was wrong with the previous two discussions about this OP? with 1400+ upvotes

[dupe]

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47719486

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47716043

M95D2 days ago
I fear this might be just license costs cutting and not something that Linux and FOSS will benefit from.
samrus2 days ago
Why wouldnt linux and FOSS benefit from usage? At the least it result in social validation, if not bug reports
M95D2 days ago
Social validation brings incompetent users expecting something like Windows that "just works".

Even if they could bring some bug reports... We have lots of those already! We have decades of ignored bug reports.

fphabout 23 hours ago
Why would only incompetent users expect something that "just works"?
Leomuck2 days ago
Wait, do we not want incompetent users on Linux? That's a weird take. Linux is not for elite technologically profound users, it's for everybody. If things don't work for non-technical users, we should strive to make it better?
ur-whale2 days ago
> I fear this might be just license costs cutting and not something that Linux and FOSS will benefit from.

yup, at this point, nothing but cobwebs and IOU's left in the coffers over there and every little bit of saving helps.

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jrm41 day ago
Linus Torvalds. Richard Stallman. GNU and the GPL.

As a bit of an old-timer, I literally don't know exactly where to start a new conversation on this in a place like this; for me the obviousness of the theoretical and practical superiority of free and open source software principles are just always there for me; and it's quite obvious here that it's different for younger people.

So I'm dropping the names and the concepts. Perhaps someone else knows how to get this going?

etchalon1 day ago
They're not wrong.
linzhangrun1 day ago
The French government's statement seems quite vague to me. Frankly, I think it's just another anti-American posture, particularly aimed at the Trump administration.

Interestingly, when it comes to replacing Windows with Linux — at least on the government side — China is absolutely leading the pack. The "Xinchuang" (信创) initiative, focused on domestic tech self-reliance, has been underway for several years now. The vast majority of new government machines run domestically-branded OSes that are essentially reskinned Linux distros, some even powered by Chinese-made x86 CPUs and GPUs. This has had the indirect effect of substantially improving China's Linux desktop software ecosystem — to maintain compatibility with these "domestic" systems, many mainstream desktop apps have been rewritten on modern cross-platform stacks (read: Electron-style web wrappers).

They don't even use vanilla MySQL/PostgreSQL, and closed-source options like Oracle or SQL Server are a hard no. Instead, they use heavily forked "Xinchuang" variants of PostgreSQL. This entire tech stack is essentially a prerequisite for anyone looking to land government contracts.

spwa41 day ago
Now that on-chip silicon radios have been invented, using anything but home-designed cpus, and in general all chips, is lunacy from a nation-state security standpoint.
anon2912 days ago
Linux is also written by American companies at the end of the day. Most linux devs are supported by American companies and Linux's benevolent dictator for life, Linus Torvalds, lives in Portland, Oregon and is an American citizen.

There's literally no non-American general-purpose operating system.

casey22 days ago
But Linux is US tech? Isn't the main guy American?
jll292 days ago
Linus Torvalds created Linux as a student in Helsinki, Finnland. He later took U.S. citizenship and lives in Portland, Oregon, TTBOMK.

Now on some level, the question makes less sense, because Linux as we know it now is an international proejct that thousands of developers from dozens of countries collaborated on. But perhaps most would agree that Torvalds, who serves as main integrator, has more say than others regarding the directions of Linux, as long as he is alive.

The open source property of Linux is more important to the question which OS a country's government should adopt: corporate systems are hard to scrutinize, whereas open source systems you can inspect and compile yourself, and it is a wise move of the French government to go in that direction. It will also save a lot of money, but that should not be the primary motive.

mirpa2 days ago
It is open source. Many companies which contribute to it are American, but nobody from America can tell you what you can or cannot do with it - unlike Microsoft or Apple with their proprietary OS being forced by US government.
rzerowan2 days ago
Funnily enough there is some level of control that can be exerted by the US gov via the distros (at least the major ones - see legalese restrictions on Redhat/Ubuntu etc when you want to download , stating the various US gov laws/sanctions that they follow) and also via the kernel - i think some time back Russian kernel maintainers were removed.

So Open source it may be , however there are still pressure points that can be used. I believe this is one of the main reasons RISCV foundation moved to Europe.

roblabla2 days ago
Europe has a major distro in the form of SUSE, so that’s not too worrying.

Even if upstream linux banned european contributors, there are enough european contributors that a fork would just emerge. So I’m really not too worried about that happening.

hdgvhicv2 days ago
The “main guy” is Finnish. He also got American citizenship recently, but given the US has increased attacks on naturalised citizens [0] and has a history of this [1] it’s not a solid foundation.

[0] https://www.npr.org/2026/01/16/nx-s1-5677685/as-focus-shifts...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_America...

drstewart2 days ago
If Japanese internment worried you, you should see Europe's treatment of perceived outsiders [0] and get reallyyyy worried about the ongoing attacks [1] and rhetoric [2]. I would urge extreme caution to anyone in Europe that is at risk.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Jews_from_Spain

[1] https://www.ein.org.uk/news/home-office-remove-euss-pre-sett...

[2] https://www.ft.com/content/0e29224f-9d06-4315-a89f-e334ffbc6...

Also, what nationality do you say Elon Musk is, out of curiosity? Let's test your consistency :)

embedding-shape2 days ago
> Expulsion of Jews from Spain [...] On 31 March 1492, the Catholic Monarchs of Spain, King Ferdinand II of Aragon and Queen Isabella I of Castile, issued the Alhambra Decree, ordering all unconverted Jews to leave their kingdoms and territories by the end of July that year, unless they converted to Christianity

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but we (I live in Spain) have come a long way since 1492 (534 years ago) and if that's the most recent example you can find of "Europe's treatment of perceived outsiders" I think you yourself know that stuff like that doesn't happen today, in Europe.

hdgvhicv2 days ago
Musk collects citizenships like they’re going out of fashion. He fled South’s Africa due to not wanting to be drafted.

Lieutenant Torvalds on the other hand fulfilled his service duties.

Should the US and South Africa go to war it seems clear where musks loyalties would lie. Should the US and Finland go to war I suspect that Torvalds wouldn’t be as clear cut.

ajross2 days ago
Didn't have "Europe is antisemitic because of the Spanish Inquisition" on my bingo card today. No one expects it, indeed.
bogeholm2 days ago
Just Wiki Linus Torvalds my friend:

> Torvalds was born in Helsinki, Finland

> In 2004, Torvalds moved with his family from Silicon Valley to Portland, Oregon.

redat002 days ago
?
boomskats2 days ago
No, and no?

...what?

GardenLetter272 days ago
Yeah, he became American, just like Einstein, Fermi, Von Neumann, etc.

There's a big lesson for Europe there, everyone super productive and able to move to the US does so at the first opportunity.

skillina2 days ago
You might want to do a bit more reading on why European intellectuals migrated en masse to the US in the 1930s.
pseudony2 days ago
Definitely. And then one could start wondering if the direction might reverse.
bogeholm2 days ago
Yeah, um…

That might have changed somewhat, recently.

drivingmenuts2 days ago
When the US is being run by relatively sane people, it's great.

That is not the situation at the moment.

drstewart2 days ago
Is this the daily thread on this topic?

Astroturfing around this is getting suspicious.

e2le2 days ago
> Astroturfing around this is getting suspicious.

It's perfectly possible for people to be passionate about the subject.

drstewart2 days ago
I've never met a real human that was passionate about what OS a government worker in some local French commune uses, but it's the hottest topic on HN behind AI
samrus2 days ago
Most of the passion is around being felt exploited my american tech giants and feeling hopeful at seeing large respectable institutions divest from them. Thats legit, not astroturfed
EinigeKreise2 days ago
I do care for them setting an example for my local government.
blitzar1 day ago
Let me introduce you to a meme ... 2026: The Year of the Linux Desktop
embedding-shape2 days ago
Right, what about FOSS developers who care about what guidelines the entire country has regarding OS usage? Maybe I'm living in a bubble, but everyone (mostly Europeans to be fair) seems excited about moving away from US technologies.

This move isn't just "Local French commune thinks about Linux", it's "French government agency that can mandate what others do, set hard guideline for agencies and magistrates to come up with a concrete plan for how to move to Linux", which is worlds beyond what we've seen before.

ndsipa_pomu2 days ago
I don't believe we've met, but I've long been convinced that governments should not be reliant on commercial software and proprietary formats and protocols. It just seems obvious that relying on Microsoft this and that is a blinkered, short-term view.
Mashimo2 days ago
> Astroturfing around this is getting suspicious.

Nah, linux and "$curreant_year is the year of the linux desktop" is just something the hacker / maker / nerd scene is passionate about.

bombcar2 days ago
I remember similar articles being posted 20+ years ago on Slashdot. And as we’ve seen, it’s often less of a “use Linux” and more of a “we have an alternate vendor” and there’s often suspicious lock-in (see the case in the EU or some similar country where the vendor was reading emails).
dbdr2 days ago
At least in some cases, it's actually using Linux and open document format, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GendBuntu
clickety_clack2 days ago
Even the US government should be considering this.
ArtTimeInvestor2 days ago
It is a step into the right direction.

Over time, more and more work is going to be done by AI though. At some point, it will be unthinkably slow and expensive to let humans work on anything.

To do *that* locally, you need GPUs and LLMs.

How will Europe solve these two?

Joeri2 days ago
The EU chips act is subsidizing new fab construction in Europe.

Meanwhile the french Mistral is partnering with Nvidia to build an AI data center near Paris on which their LLMs will run.

But I agree this is not enough to make the EU a contender in the race with the US and China. The EU still has not seriously considered decoupling from American big tech.

tonyedgecombe2 days ago
Do you people have to squeeze a comment about AI into every post?
arter452 days ago
Not all AI uses LLM, and for some common LLM applications like summarization and translation you can already use CPU only models. The government, or even your average employer, is not going to need a lot of AI video generation or other really GPU intensive tasks. Prompt processing is currently more GPU oriented, but I don't see it as an impossible challenge given, say, 10-15 years.

Also, CPU-only doesn't necessarily mean "on your own computer". You can easily have 100 TB RAM in a couple of racks.

m_mueller2 days ago
I think it depends on how strong the compression advancements are going to be, such that much can be done locally in the future. I'd be interested in experiences of others here in using Gemma4, which is at the forefront of "intelligence per gigabyte" atm. (according to benches).
ErroneousBosh2 days ago
No-one needs LLMs.

AI has no value.

corndoge2 days ago
At this point in the broader dialogue your position is roughly as interesting as flat earth. Only bored people are going to bother replying and no one is taking you seriously. Don't do yourself a disservice by clinging to this.
ErroneousBosh2 days ago
Okay, give me one example of what AI might be useful for.
samrus2 days ago
Im skeptical of the AGI claims but this is a bit too far in the toher direction. I use it to turn designs to code all the time
swiftcoder2 days ago
> I use it to turn designs to code all the time

A human can however do the same job. Turning designs into code isn't a fundamentally new capability unlocked by GenAI, it's just a shuffling of costs from employing humans -> renting GPUs

7bit2 days ago
The chariot was superior! Who needs them darn cars
nickserv2 days ago
My grandpa was doing just fine before those newfangled chariots became all the rage. What's wrong with walking?