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Discussion (17 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

zebproj18 minutes ago
The article makes it sound like this is a very a new idea, but physical models of music instruments, including violin, has been around for over 40 years. Daisy Bell, the first piece of computer music and performed by their model, utilized a physical model of the human singing voice based on measurements of human vocal tract, and that was done in 1962.

Julius Smith wrote pretty comprehensive textbook on the subject of building physical models of musical instruments, available online. Here, for example, is a chapter on modeling bowed string sounds: https://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/pasp/Bowed_Strings.html

HelloUsername7 minutes ago
> Daisy Bell, the first piece of computer music and performed by their model, utilized a physical model of the human singing voice based on measurements of human vocal tract, and that was done in 1962

From the article:

> As a demonstration, the researchers applied the computational violin to play two short excerpts: one from “Bach’s Fugue in G Minor,” and another from “Daisy Bell” — a nod to the first song that was ever produced by a computer-synthesized voice.

florilegiumson10 minutes ago
“As it is, the new computational model is the first to generate realistic sound based on the laws of physics and acoustics.”

Ouch: this is completely inaccurate. Physical modeling has its roots in the 80s and Stefan Bilbao has been doing FDM based methods for over 20 years. I think he discusses fem in numerical sound sysnthesis

yummybrainz5 minutes ago
I'm assuming the intended meaning is that this was the first time the approach led to "realistic" sound?
HelloUsername14 minutes ago
Semi-related?

"Show HN: Anyma V, a hybrid physical modelling virtual instrument" 01-aug-2024 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41132104 29 comments

"Show HN: I built a synthesizer based on 3D physics" 02-may-2025 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43873074 123 comments

zokier29 minutes ago
Reminds me of this last years siggraph paper about cello playing animation

https://youtu.be/ODR6eQOjm9w

https://github.com/Qzping/ELGAR

It's just fun to see solutions to problems you didn't even know to exist.

orthoxeroxabout 1 hour ago
Someone made a virtual car engine that was able to generate realistic sounds a few years ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKT-sKtR970

superpope9932 minutes ago
The coolest thing about this to me is that he managed to plug a trumpet into the same engine and it sort of... Just worked
arstep26 minutes ago
it doesn't sound as a real violin at all. A professional violinist would immediately tell that something is wrong.
ioseph17 minutes ago
As an amateur violinist and synth enthusiast it sounds tinny and dry
mchinenabout 1 hour ago
Bowed instruments are very cool to model because of the nonlinear slip of the bow against the string. A bit curious why bowing was not discussed or used in the example of a violin, just plucking. Do luthiers test violins more by plucking than bowing?
tkocmathla9 minutes ago
They briefly address this in the article:

> Violin bowing, the researchers say, is a much more complicated interaction to model.

nwatsonabout 1 hour ago
It's probably harder to model and the results "aren't quite there yet".
shoolyabout 1 hour ago
Not sure if that's news, Audio Modeling[1] has been doing that for quite a long time now. The big plus of physical modeling instead of sampling is disk size - instead of tens of GB of samples, you get a 15MB plugin.

It's much more difficult to use, though - you have to control lots of aspects of the simulation (using automation in DAW or MIDI controllers) to make it sound actually realistic.

OK I guess it seems like this is more of a tool for luthiers than for composers or music producers.

[1] https://audiomodeling.com/

vintermann42 minutes ago
The first version of Pianoteq came back in 2006. There are apparently some exotic mid-90s synths with claims of being physically modeled too, don't know how accurate that is.

I currently use a raspberry pi with Pianoteq as sound output for my digital piano. It got a reluctant stamp of approval from my pianist son, although of course he prefers the physical response of even a poor acoustic piano.

TheOtherHobbes4 minutes ago
Pianoteq is more like spectral modelling. The sound lacks some of the movement and bloom of a real piano.

90s physical modelling was a very simplified modular kind of modelling. Instead of analogue oscillators and filters you had "string" models, "pipe" models, various resonators, and so on.

The models were interesting, but still quite crude and basic.

This project is the most physical kind of physical modelling. It's an unsimplified brute-force model of the entire instrument body and string system, in full.

It doesn't try to "model a resonator", it models blocks of wood with various holes, and calculates how they distort and radiate as sound passes through them.

It's ridiculously expensive computationally, but it's also the only way to get all of the nuances of the sound.

I expect they're already working on a stick-slip model for bowing.

Theoretically you could use the same technique to model a piano or guitar, and you would get something indistinguishable from a real instrument.

You'd likely need a supercomputer to run the model in anything approaching real time.

But the advantage is that once you've got it you can do insane things like replace the strings with wood instead of metal, or use different metals, or "build" nonphysical pianos that are fifty feet long and have linear overtones all the way down to the bass.

cwillu11 minutes ago
Do you have an analog sustain pedal? The fine control with partial pedaling made some difference for me re: pianoteq's feel.