MacBook Neo Deep Dive: Benchmarks, Wafer Economics, and the 8GB Gamble

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ttosh about 4 hours ago 82 commentsRead Article on jdhodges.com

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Discussion (82 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

Havoc•3 minutes ago

Recently dived into mac world (air) too after decades of win/linux.

Pleasant experience and very impressed by hardware and polish except wow the keyboard/shortcut situation is absolutely cursed. Not different...actually cursed.

Who decided that sometimes its cmd+Q to close a window while other times its cmd+W and some apps support both but with different behaviours and knowing which of the three it is depends on knowing what's an OS window (but not all OS windows)? Or why is taking a screenshot of an area to clip it a FOUR key combo with one of them being a random number (the key 4). I can definitely memorize it and get used to it, but were the designers high as a kite when it was shortcut design day?

wlesieutre•about 2 hours ago

> The I/O is also a genuine limitation: one USB 2.0 port is functionally useless for data transfer, no Thunderbolt means no fast external storage, and charging occupies your only USB 3 port.

You're supposed to use the USB-2 port for charging and save the USB-3 port for external accessories, not the other way around

It only supports 10Gb/s compared to 40 that USB-4 is theoretically capable of, but that's more than enough for anyone in the $600 laptop market.

zitterbewegung•3 minutes ago

Sometimes on HN while this is technically correct I wonder if Mac users will truly notice. This is probably a limitation of the A19 chip.

washingupliquid•about 1 hour ago

Apple should appoint you as PR chief so you can explain to users that the two visually identical and unlabeled ports next to each other are different, because labeling is ugly and only for PCs, and they're stupid for not realizing it.

coder543•44 minutes ago

The computer pops up a warning if you plug a fast device into the slow port, which is a lot more informative for the average user than a tiny label that most users wouldn’t even read.

Labels would be nice, I guess, but their absence is hardly a dealbreaker.

retired•43 minutes ago

You get a message on screen that you should be using the other port.

But yes, labeling should have been better. One of the USPs of MacBooks is that all USB ports are the same. Unlike other computers where you have to look where you are plugging it in. The Neo breaks that tradition.

wlesieutre•34 minutes ago

Apple should show users an alert when they plug a USB-3 device into the USB-2 port because they are visually identical

Oh wait https://i.imgur.com/7HWgxZ1.png

I don't know the details of Apple's silicon designs, but I assume the USB port bandwidth is because this is using the chip from iPhone 16 Pro, a phone which of course had a single USB-3 port. They've done what they can with it to hit the price point.

The alternative was to not include a second USB port for charging, in which case people would be bitching about it not being able to use peripherals while charging like the last time they made a single port laptop.

_aavaa_•about 1 hour ago

Do you think those same users know the difference between usb3, usb4, and thunderbolt (or even that all three exist)? More over, do you think they know how to tell cables apart for the three?

washingupliquid•42 minutes ago

$150 netbooks solved this by labeling the ports "SS" or using blue USB-A inserts, but those are matters inferior PC users have to deal with.

storus•14 minutes ago

Both 10Gb/s and 8GB RAM limit come from iPhone 16 Pro chip limitations used in Neo. Next year's should have 12GB of RAM.

chocochunks•23 minutes ago

Yeah, but that USB 3 port has to do a lot of heavy lifting. It 's also the only video out port making decent dongles a necessity. On a $600 PC it's not uncommon to have USB A (at 3.0 speeds), HDMI in addition to USB C and maybe even Ethernet.

stirlo•about 1 hour ago

It’s a bizarre take.

It’s not functionally useless, it supports a mouse, keyboard, printer or even an iPhone (non pro) perfectly fine at full speed. It also probably has enough speed for the average cheap terrible quality USB drive that the buyer of a $600 PC might have.

This is a Silicon Valley tech geek take not a real world one.

retired•41 minutes ago

The assortment of cheap USB sticks I have do not surpass 400mbit/sec. Not even the ones labeled USB3.0 or High Speed.

darkteflon•about 2 hours ago

I bought an 8gb M1 Air in 2020 (for what now feels like an absurdly small sum of money) as an experiment in how-cheap-is-too-cheap / chuckable travel laptop. I ended up using it as my main laptop for 2 years without regret, then handed it to my son for school.

It remains in perfect condition and as delightful to use as the day I bought it (Apple software snafus notwithstanding). I fully expect to get at least 10 years use out of it. Honestly, I feel like it could probably carry him all the way through school - but I’d be embarrassed to say that out loud since that’s another 9 years.

s0rce•6 minutes ago

I had an M1 pro with the touchbar thing that I bought used for <$1000 after I had to give my work one back when I changed jobs. It was the best upgrade I ever made. I cracked the screen and bought a M4 air on black friday for $750 or something which I'm using now.

epistasis•about 1 hour ago

I've been on my M1 Air, 16GB, since a few weeks after launch, more than six years now. I still use it daily with lots of Docker containers, VS Code, tons of Electron apps, a small macOS arm VM, and lots of browser tabs simultaneously. Recently, Claude's VM environment is getting exercised simultaneously. Usually the memory pressure is into yellow, but responsiveness is still far higher than any Mac from the Intel days, and far more usable than any Windows laptop that I have the misfortune to experience when borrowing somebody else's computer. And despite all that memory pressure, my SSD isn't getting worn out by swapping, I'm at only "3%" of SSD wear, if those stats on the CLI are to be trusted.

I'm not sure I'll need another computer anytime soon. Even though the kids jumped on it once when I left it on the couch for a few minutes, bending the case on one side of the keyboard. It bent back mostly flat. Gives it a bit of personality.

Never before has $1099 (or whatever) of hardware gone so far for me.

wiseowise•13 minutes ago

And you forgot the best part: it is completely silent.

davnicwil•23 minutes ago

a bit of an aside but what's amazing is that Docker's recent beta VM for Mac (I think released a couple of months ago now) has dramatically improved the performance you get out of your CPU.

Using a macbook air, even a recent one, before this Docker was definitely usable but noticably slower. Probably still worth it but a noticable tradeoff using it as a dev machine Vs a pro. Now that tradeoff has basically gone away.

tracker1•about 1 hour ago

I bumped up to 16gb ram and more storage... it's still running great for when I use it, which is not much tbf... I mostly use my desktop because my vision has gotten exceedingly bad the past few years and my 45" desktop displays are significantly easier for me to read and use... I can kind of manage with the M1 display set to max size/scale... but many apps and sites are problematic.

steve_adams_86•42 minutes ago

I have a 2017 MacBook Air that's still going strong and will certainly hit 10 years. It definitely won't hit another 9 years after that, though... The keyboard doesn't have that much life left in it, and I won't be repairing it.

havaloc•about 3 hours ago

I bought a Neo as an out of the house computer and it really is a triumph. If the Air is good enough for 99% of the population, the Neo as is approaches good enough for 90% of the population at half the cost.

headcanon•about 3 hours ago

My wife bought a Neo and has been very happy with it. I was wary of the 8gb memory limit but she is running claude code doing web development with a reasonable number of tabs open and no noticeable lag, so I'd say its definitely getting a lot of mileage out of it.

It honestly seems good enough that it might cannibalize Macbook Air sales.

crazygringo•about 2 hours ago

It might be more likely that it cannibalizes used Macbook Air sales.

GeekyBear•about 1 hour ago

After years of incremental upgrades to the Airs, a new entry level M5 Air gives you double the RAM, double the storage, and double the CPU and GPU performance of an M1 Air.

Hopefully used Airs will come up for sale more frequently, as they remain a step up from the Neo.

adastra22•about 1 hour ago

At double the price.

Octoth0rpe•about 2 hours ago

which seem to be out of stock in any case, so probably not a loss for apple.

https://www.apple.com/shop/refurbished/mac

bjelkeman-again•about 2 hours ago

I am running Claude Code, Claude Desktop, Codex and Docker Desktop on a last generation Intel Air, that admittedly has 12 GB RAM. One has to be a bit careful with more apps. But I look forward to an upgrade. Maybe a Neo, but more likely a second hand M.

nicoburns•about 3 hours ago

The Neo is pretty great, and the compromises are totally reasonable at the price point. But if they do a second generation with A19 Pro (and thus 12GB RAM) and a slightly better cooling system then it would really be fantastic.

tracker1•about 1 hour ago

You can use a small thermal pad on the current Neo to bridge to the case, which helps with temps quite a bit.

steve_adams_86•35 minutes ago

I do this with my old 2017 MacBook Air and while the case gets pretty hot, it reduces throttling on the old Intel processor a lot. It felt like a new computer after replacing the thermal paste and adding that pad.

tracker1•22 minutes ago

Apparently the neo doesn't really get hot enough to really notice to the touch with the pad to the case.

baal80spam•about 3 hours ago

> if they do a second generation with A19 Pro

I'm pretty sure it's a "when", not "if".

adastra22•about 1 hour ago

Idk, I think they are regretting the unit economics of the Neo, and it is likely cannibalizing the Air sales.

tracker1•44 minutes ago

Maybe some... but they're likely picking up a lot of people that would have gone with a $500-700 windows laptop instead.. and the margins are similar, so they're probably well ahead.

QuadmasterXLII•about 1 hour ago

intentionally cannibalizing their own sales is iirc the official apple policy: iphone destroyed ipod and was one of the best business mives of all time

nicoburns•about 1 hour ago

Probably true. I hope they do it next year, but I suspect it might the following one.

karmakaze•36 minutes ago

> Apple has to keep macOS running well within 8GB, which is actually a nice forcing function against bloat and inefficiency. We could all use a little more of that.

Hmm, I have a very different understanding of how Apple uses forcing functions. Prematurely slowing iPhones with older batteries regardless of charge level as a forcing function to upgrade is what I take away. When the 12GB Neo's are out, I expect another bit of bloat in Liquid Glass or other to motivate the upgrade.

avidruntime•28 minutes ago

Apple's throttling was an undisclosed optimization that was controversial because it was not disclosed. The optimization itself was not controversial. It was not premature either. If the battery's measurable levels (impedance, current, voltage, etc.) fell out of nominal range, then throttling occurred. FWIW I somewhat resent having to 'defend' Apple here, but your narrative frame here has too much speculation for a situation finalized in fact in 2017, almost 10 years ago.

briandw•about 3 hours ago

We just bought the Neo for our daughter to use at school. My biggest concern was the trackpad. This is the first MacBook to not use a force touch trackpad since they were introduced. I must say that the new trackpad is really good. It's not quite as good as the force touch one in my MacBook Pro, but it's close. We will see how well the Neo holds up over time, but it's off to a good start.

auguzanellato•5 minutes ago

It’s certainly better than most trackpads on non Macs, especially because it “clicks” ok even on the top part.

codazoda•about 2 hours ago

I never use the physical touch on the MacBook Pro or MacBook Air. It’s one of the first things I configure so that a light tap is a click. It somehow feels “faster” to me.

nicoburns•about 1 hour ago

The trackpads on the old (pre-force-touch MacBooks) were really good. The force-touch is (IMO) slightly better, but it's a slight difference.

sgt•about 2 hours ago

I've had many MacBook Pros but never thought about that. I guess mine has too. How do I use it? I just tap lightly to click.

dylan604•about 2 hours ago

pretty much the only time I use it is to lookup the definition of a word by highlighting it and force clicking. Can't do that with the magic mouse.

caycep•about 2 hours ago

it also looks really nice. at the Apple Store, the chassis seems well machined. the "cheaper" apple logo insert also clearly also incurred some expense as it fit into the lid perfectly. Hinge, keyboard and trackpad felt good. Design team clearly took time to telegraph craft and quality in their product.

RubberShoes•about 3 hours ago

I still have AnandTech in a prime spot on my bookmarks toolbar. I miss the site so much and welcome any reviews like this that attempt to capture their level of detail when reviewing a product.

sysworld•about 2 hours ago

You tried arstechnica? they do pretty good reviews.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2026/03/apple-macbook-neo-re...

sbinnee•25 minutes ago

12gb bump soon? I don’t see that happening. It’s Apple.

trollied•about 3 hours ago

The “8gb gamble” could be seen as a misleading headline.

The review is very fair - it’s an amazing bit of kit for the money.

armanj•about 3 hours ago

for vibe coding stuff, especially when you're outside touching grass, I believe MacBook Neo is perfect. it fills the gap between the phone remote control (which is too painful for chatting with ai cli) and, well, not having any dev device.

weezing•about 2 hours ago

Do people really do that when out in the wild?

jlokier•about 2 hours ago

It's one of the nicest things to do if you love computers, and great for your health compared with staying indoors.

> Could one actually work like this, typing and everything? After my “heart-rate discovery” I decided I had to try it. I thought I’d have to build something myself, but actually one can just buy “walking desks”, and so I did. And after minor modifications, I discovered that I could walk and type perfectly well with it, even for a couple of hours. I was embarrassed I hadn’t figured out such a simple solution 20 years ago. But starting last fall—whenever the weather’s been good—I’ve tried to spend a couple of hours of each day walking outside like this

https://writings.stephenwolfram.com/2019/02/seeking-the-prod...

https://quantifiedself.com/blog/stephen-wolfram-finds-workin...

phainopepla2•about 2 hours ago

How do you deal with screen glare?

wiseowise•10 minutes ago

LLM addicts do. The AI overlord said to touch grass, because it is beneficial, but they've glanced over the main part of "disconnect from everything".

timpera•about 2 hours ago

I'm pretty disappointed in the Neo's battery life though, it limits a lot how much you can do on the go.

conception•about 1 hour ago

I think the only gap I’ve come across is that trying to drive two monitors through a display link dock it doesn’t really have the GPU to not have that be laggy.

khernandezrt•about 2 hours ago

Id pay an extra $150 for the haptic trackpad tbh

orliesaurus•about 2 hours ago

What if you cool the chassis really really well??? Does throttling go away?

timpera•about 2 hours ago

https://youtu.be/lswbpVtAhrc?si=N_z_g0aZmoOUz_Cs

> tl;dw Copper shim mod (using laptop bottom as heatsink) leads to 2x performance over stock.

system7rocks•16 minutes ago

I may buy a Neo just to do this. Intrigued.

guideamigo•about 2 hours ago

This might win big in emerging markets where there is a desire for a high-quality laptop for non-programmers.

notfried•about 2 hours ago

Why is the author considering Claude Code a "real developer workflow"? Unless you're doing complex tool calling, is CC really resource-heavy?

xnx•about 2 hours ago

Why does a "real developer workflow" need to be resource-heavy?

sannysanoff•about 1 hour ago

IDE written in Java indexing 10K files, compiling + running spring boot apps that take 30 seconds to start on the M4, or C++ compilation, or rust compilation.. Or maybe you were sarcastic?

fastball•about 2 hours ago

Yes, Claude Code can use a lot of RAM.

lifestyleguru•about 2 hours ago

I already have half dozen over decade old laptops with 4-8GB of RAM in the drawer, don't need any more.

fragmede•about 3 hours ago

The question thus, is how does the Neo perform if I put it on top of an ice pack?

orliesaurus•about 2 hours ago

Yup, was wondering the same, that would be a great follow up article by author

Applejinx•about 2 hours ago

Or mod it so it burns your junk but makes you the heatsink :D

tracker1•40 minutes ago

A lot of people have used a thermal pad to bridge the CPU to the case.. it doesn't really get that hot, and you get a >5% performance bump.

justin66•about 2 hours ago

> Yes, 8GB of RAM is a real limitation. But give it a year and the next version will almost certainly ship with 12GB and a modest CPU bump.

We'll be able to have six browser tabs open instead of four?