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#tax#state#data#breaks#taxes#states#don#centers#should#https

Discussion (123 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

bnycum2 minutes ago
After Meta in Louisiana, Amazon is currently building 3 separate data centers across Shreveport-Bossier. Have to imagine they are receiving the same treatment. I’ve driven by the Bossier Parish grounds and the cleared land alone is massive. Each are expected to be 2-3 million sqft.
adamredwoodsabout 2 hours ago
From https://sherwood.news/tech/hyperion/

>> Per the report, the package of tax breaks and incentives was achieved through local officials bound by nondisclosure agreements, quietly struck legislative deals, and parliamentary sleight of hand to avoid public scrutiny of the deal.

>> So the residents of Richland Parish did not have much of a heads-up on what was coming.

No voting, no public interests, only closed-door politics.

heylookabout 1 hour ago
Yet another moment where Strangers in Their Own Land[0] is prescient.

From an interview[1] given by the author: "I think the next most important reason they distrusted the federal government is their experience with protective agencies in the state of Louisiana, and they thought, “Gosh, these are a lot of people we pay taxes to but they don't really protect us.” And they’re right, because Louisiana is an oil state - that was a big discovery for me - and it outsources, in a way, the moral dirty work to the state. So, the state actually pretends to protect the citizenry from hazardous waste and pollution of air and water and ground, but it doesn't actually protect it very much. It gives out permits, as one Tea Party person said "like candy." And so, they felt the federal government is just a bigger, badder version of a state government which isn't protecting us. So, they'd had bad experience. They’d been burned, and I think that's the second kind of source of resistance to the government. But the third is that they saw the government as an instrument of what I'll call “the line cutters.”"

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strangers_in_Their_Own_Land [1] https://www.loe.org/shows/segments.html?programID=18-P13-000...

cucumber373284230 minutes ago
Man, "instrument of the 'line cutters'" describes my government to a tee and I live in one of the wealthiest states.
JuniperMesosabout 1 hour ago
> >> So the residents of Richland Parish did not have much of a heads-up on what was coming.

> No voting, no public interests, only closed-door politics.

This is exactly what NIMBYs say about attempts to build housing; and resisting efforts on the part of local people to exercise political pressure against proposed housing development projects is a core component of YIMBYist activism. If it's possible for local activists to be short-sighted, self-interested, or straightforwardly wrong when they exert political pressure against housing developments, then it's also possible for them to be similarly wrong about data centers, or any other built structure that someone, somewhere has a problem with.

amlutoabout 1 hour ago
This is a strange comparison.

If a real estate developer already owns land and wants to build at their expense on their own land, quite a few people think that, in general, they should be permitted to do so as long as they comply with applicable laws.

But this set of tax breaks is modifying the effect of the applicable laws (namely sales and use tax, according to the article) for the benefit of a landowner. That seems rather different.

drtzabout 1 hour ago
There's a lot of ground between gifting $3.3 billion in tax incentives to a megacorp for a short-term increase in construction employment and allowing a homeowner build a second dwelling on their lot.

Incidentally, that same $3.3 billion could build around 10,000 accessory dwellings in Baton Rouge.

bombcar28 minutes ago
What are the details of the tax incentives? Some are "real loss" (e.g., the area produced $10k a year in property tax before, and now produces $0) and others are "lost future taxes" where it produces nothing now, and now will produce nothing for 10/20 years (this is the type often used to convince Walmart to build here rather than there).
lesuoracabout 1 hour ago
What back-deals are yimbys doing?

There's a huge difference between extremely publically pushing for laws that allow buildings to be built vs private negotiating tax breaks that only affect a singular building.

Tostinoabout 1 hour ago
So, the massive tax breaks that were given at the expense of the residents...how do you explain that away?
selimthegrim36 minutes ago
There was a public hearing of the state public service commission I attended which essentially boiled down to well all these big Wall Street banks are guaranteeing payment so it should be fine and plus we need jobs up there.
malsheabout 1 hour ago
I'm not at all surprised to learn that Republican politicians royally screwed their constituents. I was going to say maybe these people will vote better next time just to read that Colorado governor is commuting the sentence of Tina Peters. Democratic leadership is so freaking weak it's unbelievable. With one party full of grifters and the other with full of weaklings, we need to abolish this two-party system.
ChadNauseam22 minutes ago
Does the commutation of Tina Peters' sentence have anything at all to do with this situation?
gizajob23 minutes ago
Don’t worry, if you take a step back it’s been a one party system for decades already.
selimthegrim33 minutes ago
Louisiana had a Democratic governor from 2016-2024.
LogicFailsMeabout 1 hour ago
Which is what we keep electing so boohoo. I'd like to be less pessimistic but people are irredeemably irredeemable. I am hugely pro-AI, but the tech bros need to channel more Ronald Reagan* and less f**ing Homelander or this ends very badly for everyone.

*And I hated Ronald Reagan at the time

Now bring me some downvotes to show me the error of my ways... Thank you for restoring my lack of faith in humanity...

laweijfmvoabout 2 hours ago
but there will be voting; all of the elected officials will have to face elections at some point, and voters can put their feet down right now: everyone is voted out.
rjbwork24 minutes ago
And then those companies can give them their due ~~bribes~~ totally free and unrelated gifts out of the goodness of their hearts to such illustrious paragons of American governance, as legalized by the supreme court recently.
nomorewordsabout 2 hours ago
When the damage is already done?
shimmanabout 2 hours ago
It's okay, as the on-going damage continues Americans tend to be well armed enough to go on a few rampages here and there.
philipallstarabout 2 hours ago
That is how everyone decision works, yes. That's why you want limited government. Voting where you can't vote with your money is a very low-quality, delayed signal.
kovekabout 1 hour ago
What negative consequences does being unelected have?
pertymcpertabout 2 hours ago
That's already factored in the cost of doing business for them.
fullsharkabout 1 hour ago
What's are the positives for local communities for data centers? I see only negatives. At least prisons have to hire people.
cdrnsf37 minutes ago
Jobs that exist only during construction, ambient noise, higher electricity and water prices. They also get the privilege of living near technology that represents the future: degraded education, unemployment and spiraling inequality.
ch0wn3 minutes ago
You're forgetting insane levels of air pollution and a measurable increase in ambient temperatures.
selimthegrim33 minutes ago
I believe in Richland Parish people were excited about the opportunity to sell hot plates to the construction workers.
tartoran42 minutes ago
Higher energy prices. Oh, you mean net positives? I can't see any unfortunately..
wnevetsabout 1 hour ago
The local officials get slightly richer.
fullshark33 minutes ago
I'm not that cynical, I think they got stars in their eyes, were charmed at the idea of doing business with big money / tech and didn't do any actual cost/benefit analysis. Maybe they get an opportunity to make a very powerful friend/crony and took it without considering their duty to their constituents.
dmixabout 3 hours ago
> Hyperion will be exempt from state and local sales and use taxes on its data center equipment for the next 20 years, which includes the GPUs that train and develop AI models. Sherwood News estimated that since the state’s combined state and local sales tax stands at 9.56%, spending the roughly $35 billion for the GPUs of the center will hand the firm about $3.3 billion in tax breaks.
dietr1chabout 2 hours ago
If they are willing to spend 35B there's no doubt they could spend 30B without asking the government to reach into the people's wallet.

The US needs to do something about lobbying. It seems too late already, but maybe you can get things to improve a bit.

ChadNauseamabout 2 hours ago
It's tempting to blame any political outcome you don't like on lobbying. It allows you to believe that almost no one supports the outcome that you don't like, because you can blame it on politicians manage to be bought by a small number of lobbyists. But it might not be the case. Several states (I believe Texas, Georgia, and Indiana) don't charge sales tax to data centers. So from Louisiana's perspective, the alternative to the tax break might not be $3B in tax revenue, but $0 (as Meta would simply build elsewhere). I'm sure they still plan to collect income taxes for the temporary jobs created for the construction of the data center, and of the permanent jobs required to maintain it.

If states all worked together, they could plausibly prevent this race to the bottom by agreeing on a universal sales tax minimum, but there are many obstacles to that as well besides some vague sense of "lobbying". You'd want all states to work cooperate on their minimum tax, but every state has a big incentive to break from the cartel and offer lower taxes in exchange for getting all the datacenters built there. There are lobbyists who are working against this, but it's not just meta and google, it's also local utility companies and construction/trade unions (who all want their state to defect and be the one to get all the new money and jobs)

aspenmartinabout 2 hours ago
Well said: why does a tax break bother people so much? That feels pretty populist to me: data centers of this magnitude offer a ton of economic benefits to the area and the state, 3.3B in tax breaks are the price to pay to incentivize them to bring the business to the area, which will then provide a net positive financial benefit. I can see plenty of problems with data center construction that should definitely be addressed, but why do you think states offer such huge incentives?
rdedev20 minutes ago
It wouldn't be a problem if 1) people get a say in the matter and 2) those tax breaks don't require increasing taxes else where. So far with all the data centers built that does not seem to be the case.
belochabout 1 hour ago
"If states all worked together, they could plausibly prevent this race to the bottom by agreeing on a universal sales tax minimum"

The states, under Trump, are all working together to ensure a race to the bottom happens, both in the U.S. and abroad.

One hundred and thirty five nations worked together to create a minimum corporate tax rate called "Pillar Two". It would have factored in tax breaks for projects like this by calculating an effective tax rate for Meta, and mandated higher taxes if the effective rate was too low. Trump withdrew the U.S. from that effort and created a framework to retaliate if other countries upheld Pillar Two to raise taxes on American megacorps[1] in their jurisdictions.

____

[1]https://www.piie.com/blogs/realtime-economics/2025/how-us-mu...

gonzalohmabout 2 hours ago
It's funny that the US still uses the word lobbying. At this point this has been corruption for years now. Corruption in the US is rampant
dietr1ch31 minutes ago
Yup, lobbying is a made-up integrity-washing concept after all
tt24about 2 hours ago
Do you have evidence that lobbying is what produced this outcome?
Forgeties79about 2 hours ago
Please don’t do that.
bombcar26 minutes ago
Does Hyperion have to buy GPUs in the state where they deploy them? How does that stuff even work at those scales?
axpy906about 2 hours ago
Will the earth’s climate get tax breaks too? What about the people living around these and paying for taxes. What about zero sum game we have here.
imzadiabout 2 hours ago
The blinders on people about these things is insane. I'm in Arizona. We are having a water crisis but they are building data centers and oat milk factories. WTF?
jackbrookesabout 1 hour ago
The irony is that beef and cattle feed use vastly more water than oat milk production. Oat milk would help reduce water use if its used as a substitute for dairy.
shimmanabout 1 hour ago
Good, now start to question why such a system should continue to flourish and not be drowned violently in a bathtub.

Neoliberalism is a blight upon the world and it has only been around for 50ish years or so. It doesn't have to be this way.

charcircuitabout 2 hours ago
The climate doesn't pay taxes. Unless the people living around them are investing $200 million into a datacenter they would not fall under the bill.
ceejayozabout 1 hour ago
> The climate doesn't pay taxes.

It's more likely to impose them.

neksn26 minutes ago
What’s interesting to me is that for you to build a $10B datacenter (or any other business) you are shaken down for over $3.3B.
Protagoristabout 3 hours ago
So glad to see small companies like this get a leg up.
repelsteeltjeabout 3 hours ago
Seems only fair that we pay our taxes when those are used to subsidize such lofty endeavours.
aspenmartinabout 2 hours ago
I think there are plenty of issues with data center construction but there are real economic benefits here. If there weren’t it would be pretty easy for states to thwart them. You would see the leverage switch and companies paying states incentives.
carefulfungiabout 2 hours ago
This assumes that the legislators and regulators who approve projects like this are motivated by economic benefit and not by campaign donations and other favors.
cjabout 2 hours ago
No one likes to see big companies avoid taxes.

But I don't see what other options are available for states to compete with each other if not through tax breaks.

Edit: I suppose if you ban tax breaks, if a state wants to be competitive, they still can but through modifying the tax code for everyone instead of giving certain people exceptions. That doesn't seem like a terrible alternative..

cogman10about 2 hours ago
The other option is to not offer the tax breaks and if the company wants to build a data center, they also need to pay the taxes for it. If a state is dumb enough to offer tax breaks that's on them.

There's also not "competition" here. It isn't as if data centers have almost any positive local effects, beyond their property tax revenue. They have very few employees and if the property tax is cut they ultimately don't generate any income for the locality.

I can tell you that as someone living in Idaho, I see no differences when I work with the datacenters in Oregon, Washington, or Utah. I'm not benefited in the slightest by the few Idaho datacenters that I interact with currently.

It's the same argument that's been used to give sports stadiums sweetheart deals. These things have almost no local benefits and a lot of negative side effects with their presence.

KingMachiavelliabout 2 hours ago
> But I don't see what other options are available for states to compete with each other if not through tax breaks.

They should compete based on actual policy including tax policy. "Tax breaks" for specific projects are just unfair and a quick race to the bottom. Instead, areas should be required to treat all entities equally. Even tax breaks for specific industries like tv/film production are unfair but at least industry wide tax breaks treat individual entities more fairly.

If a state's taxes are too high to attract investment, then they should have to lower taxes for everyone (of the same type).

> exempt from state and local sales and use taxes on its data center equipment for the next 20 years

That said, the real issue IMO is that "use taxes" are just absurd to start with. Why should a random city/town be taxing products neither made nor sold in their jurisdiction. If anything, the sale of the datacenter product/services should be taxed but the external inputs "imported" from other states or countries is crazy to tax.

Again, I will die on the hill that a land value tax makes this all very simple. A LVT is the perfect strategy for extracting public value from data centers since electricity & water availability is a major input to a lands value.

ceejayozabout 2 hours ago
> But I don't see what other options are available for states to compete with each other if not through tax breaks.

Federal ban on tax breaks for companies over a certain market cap?

Why can't they compete on "we have a good regulatory setup" or "we have good schools for your employees" or "we are a nice place to live"? Why compete on "we'll soak or own taxpayers more than the next state over so you can make even more obscene profits"?

swatcoderabout 2 hours ago
The important consideration is whether states are competing for community benefits truly worth the bids made as tax breaks or whether the competition is just among politicians leveraging their personal control over tax breaks towards private benefit as power brokers.
gizajob18 minutes ago
The big companies have the cash for this by avoiding paying tax in the first place, then, in the areas where they’re spending money like capex and have to pay tax, they pull moves like this to further avoid them.
recursivecaveatabout 2 hours ago
The endgame of competing with lower taxes is handing out $99 in incentives to get $100 of mobile corporate spending in your area. The only winners are the corporations. There needs to be a collective spine.
charcircuitabout 2 hours ago
The other winners are whoever the companies is selling goods or services to.
8noteabout 2 hours ago
building a ton of renewable power is a pretty good one

data centers could be a great thing for helping with the duck curve and the like, if they can throttle up and down based on energy cost

ReptileManabout 2 hours ago
Infrastructure is a good one. Universities and high quality labor too.
dgellowabout 2 hours ago
Do datacenters really require good infrastructure? Given they are planned all around I suspect that’s not really the case. I’m also not convinced university or the quality of labors are strong arguments. Aren’t those datacenters made fairly cheaply and full of automation?
ReptileMan10 minutes ago
I answered a general question. And datacenters require quite a bit of infrastructure - roads, power lines, cheap electricity, abundant water. And if they don't use labor, then there is no reason to want them in your state anyway.
pertymcpertabout 2 hours ago
Universities...for a data center?
lern_too_spelabout 2 hours ago
Compete for what exactly, in this case?
laweijfmvoabout 2 hours ago
Seriously. A few thousand construction jobs, short term, and a few tens of jobs long term. For $3,000,000,000 dollars.
ceejayozabout 2 hours ago
First to touch the bottom!
amazingamazingabout 2 hours ago
Capital, assets, jobs.
skywhopperabout 2 hours ago
A datacenter complex provides basically none of those things to a state, beyond capital in the form of taxes. But if the state gives tax breaks, then there is no benefit to the state for having a giant warehouse draining its electricity supply and/or polluting its air.
cyanydeezabout 2 hours ago
compete for graft, kickbacks, energy parasites.
aspenmartinabout 2 hours ago
You know I’m sure this is true on some level but if you think this is all or a majority of the motivation I think that sounds pretty conspiratorial.
cyanydeezabout 2 hours ago
Stadiums routinely get tons of public funds and never return the same value to the city.

It's not really a conspiracy, perhaps more a delusion.

ianm218about 2 hours ago
Why do you see data centers as "energy parasites"? They are basically the best customers of the grid possible - consistent high usage. This is an opportunity for the US to pursue energy abundance and grow the economy. The only issues these cause is when states make it impossible to deploy more energy.

Anti growth environmentalism is so toxic when we could just be pursuing wide spread clean energy and growth.

ceejayozabout 2 hours ago
> Why do you see data centers as "energy parasites"?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48123090

> They are basically the best customers of the grid possible - consistent high usage.

The grid exists to serve the populace. It's why we tend to call it a "public utility".

skywhopperabout 2 hours ago
This is a truly delusional take. A high-consumer that needs constant input provides zero benefits to its neighbors. If datacenter providers want to benefit the grid, they ought to build clean energy production sufficient for their needs and then some as a prerequisite for approval. That would be beneficial to everyone.
htrpabout 2 hours ago
> Entergy plans at least three new combined‑cycle gas plants totalling ≈2.26 GW specifically to serve Hyperion, with additional plants in the wider “AI build‑out” pipeline.

https://spectrum.ieee.org/5gw-data-center

whimsicalismabout 2 hours ago
Tax benefits, if they exist, should be federal - not states competing.
Forgeties79about 2 hours ago
For those who are unaware, construction of this datacenter has so far been an unmitigated disaster for the community and a fantastic example of how few shits companies like Facebook give when it comes to cutting corners vs. spending money to do things more safely. To say they aren’t taking the community into consideration is an understatement.

They averaged 7 crashes a month near the site at the time of this article. The community isn’t even 2000 people. They’d had 1 fatality already by the time this article was written as well.

It’s so dangerous the local school has shut down their playground despite being a mile away. If kids being unable to have a basic outdoor recess isn’t enough to make you care I don’t know what will.

https://lailluminator.com/2025/11/22/meta-data-center-crashe...

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giancarlostoroabout 3 hours ago
Now if they can actually do something with AI that is meaningful? I assume Mark is trying to reach for like some crazy goal instead of just getting reasonable products to market. I've known the type of person who chases the stars instead of just taking their time, building up the core and then snowballing into greatness.
tencentshillabout 1 hour ago
He's the #1 advocate for virtual AI "friends". What CEO wouldn't like hundreds of people telling him he's right all the time? Meta will probably be the first company to have an AI board member.
mentalgearabout 2 hours ago
You call chatting with AI-influencer chatbot 'friends' un-meaningful ? Don't make little Marky cry. Not after the VR disaster.
alex1138about 2 hours ago
It's actually kind of amazing that (apparently, but I'm willing to be wrong) AI has resulted in more people getting banned (rather than less, which you would think. You would think AI makes this easier to filter out, search for problem accounts, whatever)

Like, the problem was always the asymmetry. Can FB police everything? Probably not. Should they be able to operate at scale if they can't? Unclear. Section 230 blah blah platform not responsible for things users post

But YOU sure get banned. At any time for any reason. When you then "report" (that button does... what, exactly?) an actual problem, platform happily tells you no community standards were violated.

You might even get banned for something you were forced to do https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24776748 (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24201306)

See, this is why shit like holding his feet to the fire for Dumb Fucks https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1692122 matters. I don't care if he was young, he also hacked Crimson reporters. Because what he ('he', assuming he didn't just steal it from the Winklevosses) built early on has evolved into a platform that is many things and fucking broken (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14147719; https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6090712) on top of that

giancarlostoro27 minutes ago
I stopped using Facebook because they nearly banned me because their AI was too stupid to notice a joke comment. I was working for Red Lobster corporate at the time, and was the admin of the Facebook app, so if I had gotten banned, it would have been a mess. So I flat out stopped using Facebook. I maybe log in once in a blue moon, then log back out. I appealed the strike, then not even 5 minutes passed, I was denied. I don't even remember being able to explain why what I said was not worthy of a warning, but honestly, screw em. I don't even need it for work anymore, but I'm never going back to that dystopian shell of social media.

I do hate it though, Mark has meaningful funding to build some actually useful AI, hell if he started bottom up, he can have his anime waifu he wants.

jorblumeseaabout 2 hours ago
What's the value add for states and cities? data centers don't create a lot of long term jobs, the skills required are highly specialized and will probably hire out of state. the construction itself will likely hire locals but that can't go on forever. these centers are loud, increase power costs and water usage.

feels like short term job creation program at best.

whimsicalismabout 2 hours ago
doesn’t increasing power usage create jobs?
ceejayozabout 1 hour ago
Not as much as you'd think. Power plants are heavily automated. A complex nuclear plant may provide a couple hundred; a big solar farm might need a dozen or two maintenance staff.

You're usually better off landing a new Target.

peytonabout 1 hour ago
> the construction itself will likely hire locals but that can't go on forever

Does any construction project go on forever?

It’s just a building. Come on.

jorblumeseaabout 1 hour ago
right my point is these are 1 time investments, locals will be dealing with the consequences and most of the workers will just leave after the job is done.
downrightmikeabout 1 hour ago
Isn't LA soon to be underwater
ChiperSoft42 minutes ago
Richland Parish is pretty far north, so not likely to be under sea water.

It is, however, in the Mississippi River delta... so I wouldn't put flooding out of the picture.

ReptileManabout 2 hours ago
I think that this is one of the cases in which the Fed government should use it interstate commerce clause to prevent the states to compete until rock bottom. The EU has some regulations that forbid state help to private enterprises and they do seem to have some teeth. Nothing wrong with different states having different tax rates, but states should not be allowed to have favorite companies and kill competition.
dgellowabout 2 hours ago
The US federal admin is all in the grift. Whoever offers the best kickbacks to the president is the favorite company
mentalgearabout 2 hours ago
At this rate, it's almost an equal public-private cooperation - which would actually make more sense as it would give the public ownership over datacenters instead of creepy tech bros.