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#exercise#minutes#health#more#sedentary#intense#don#used#never#while

Discussion (62 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

jsw97about 5 hours ago
19 subjects, assigned sedentary or active based on habitual physical activity levels. Subjects were screened on basic health measures.

The problem with this is that people are sedentary or active for a variety of health-related reasons that are not captured in any screen (esp. the crude one used in this study). As a predictive study, this is fine, sedentarism predicts a lot of bad things. But it doesn't, on its own, suggest that becoming active is helpful. See also grip strength and mortality.

adam_arthurabout 4 hours ago
The principle of what you're stating is true, it could be correlational.

But there's an enormous volume of evidence that exercise, especially intense exercise, is better for health than any other intervention, including more sleep, quality of diet, pills+supplements (except those that treat an active illness/disease of course).

There's even compelling data showing that moderate drinkers who exercise live longer than non-drinkers who don't exercise. Even given that Alcohol is a powerful carcinogen.

The only thing proven more effective than exercise is weight loss really, if starting from high bodyfat levels.

(Anything above ~15% bodyfat in men seems to have negative implications for lifespan, and ~30% for women)

makeitdoubleabout 4 hours ago
> specially intense exercise

That sounds like a study that is pretty tough to control for, especially long term and at scale.

You'd need to find subjects that are provably capable of sustaining intense exercise as a habit if they wanted to but never did, and won't either for the years you'll be following them.

That won't work in the reverse, as people can be consciously or not self adjusting based on the health conditions you're trying to check.

PS: I'm remembering a friend who never liked running, but tried pretty hard after being pestered by their doctor and family, to discover that their knees are just not good and their whole lineage hated running for a reason. Intense exercise can be anything else, but people won't know their real health limitations until they actually do it for a while.

adam_arthurabout 4 hours ago
A large volume of studies already exist.

That intense exercise is good, and even very good for you, is proven as far as reasonably possible given that we can't run deterministically controlled experiments.

More evidence may come out that adds nuance, but the effect size is so large that it becomes obvious in the data just from observation.

You can cycle or stationary bike if you have bad knees. There are plenty of exercises that are intense but easy on the joints.

koolbaabout 3 hours ago
> You'd need to find subjects that are provably capable of sustaining intense exercise as a habit if they wanted to but never did, and won't either for the years you'll be following them.

With modern 24/7 health tracking we’ll have tons of data in the next 50-100 years. Problem is we need that much time to see the net effect and will probably be too late for most of you reading this.

I wouldn’t wait for the results though. Best to start moving now assuming it’s probably good for you.

Schiendelmanabout 3 hours ago
I challenge you to look for studies. Read a few. There are hundreds on this topic!
faangguyindiaabout 3 hours ago
>(Anything above ~15% bodyfat in men has negative implications for lifespan, and ~30% for women; when reviewed at scale)

Can you link evidence for this? I stay at 12% year around as male (confirmed via DEXA)

Jweb_Guru3 minutes ago
Sounds like absolute BS to me. Even in very large scale studies specifically designed for studying mortality, only morbid obesity has been negatively correlated with lifespan. There is even some evidence that being a little overweight is actually helpful for the very old (essentially, because it gives them more buffer if they get sick enough that they stop eating for a while). A lot of this is because modern medicine has gotten very good at treating stuff like diabetes and other stuff caused by obesity. Your quality of life will undoubtedly improve if you are thinner, but that's not the same thing.
adam_arthurabout 3 hours ago
The claim comes from this study:

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.7326/M15-1181

Though to be clear, there aren't a ton of studies that look at bodyfat percentage. Most use BMI and similar measures.

Likely overall fat levels matter more than %, I'd guess.

E.g. I'd presume being 15% at very muscular levels is less healthy than 15% at moderate.

(Because absolute fat mass plus visceral fat would be higher)

strbeanabout 3 hours ago
I'd love to find out if electrical muscle stimulation while sleeping could effectively provide exercise without causing excessive sleep disruption. Could be a zero-effort supplemental form of exercise for sedentary people.
chongliabout 3 hours ago
Carbon dioxide is produced as a metabolic waste product from exercise. Any sort of fat-burning you want to do is limited by the rate at which you can exhale CO2. This is why vigorous exercise is accompanied by heavy breathing. This includes not only cardiovascular training but also weight training. Lifting heavy weights will have you breathing very hard!

Unfortunately, if you don’t lift heavy (or if you use electrical stimulation that’s mild enough to sleep) then you’re not going to put your muscles into hypertrophy, so you won’t gain muscle mass either.

econabout 2 hours ago
I just named my dracula training program.

First, learn to sleep on your back

Second, attach the blanket to the bottom of the bed and learn to sleep with your knees up. Use the blanket to help.

Third, put some books under the legs (on the head end)

Keep adding books until you almost slide down, get used to it and add more books.

Eventually you wake up feeling like you did a proper leg day.

Keep at it and go for isometric nucleus overload. Every 6 weeks remove half the books for 2 weeks.

You will grow enormous legs and they will stay that way.

I suppose you could tie rubber bands to your arms in stead of the books but I haven't tried that. I'm sure it will make for a memorable period of your life. ha-ha

Schiendelmanabout 3 hours ago
It can't, because it isn't training your heart and cardiovascular system.
meristohmabout 2 hours ago
I abhor exercise for the sake of it. Instead, I refuse to use a car to do anything but bring my family members to distant medical appointments, and the rare carpool'd vacation. Anything within ~ten miles of home I do with human power, sometimes augmented by stored electrical energy (cargo ebike; I contribute ~1/3 the Wattage). Thus, I get plenty of exercise throughout the day. We used to meet our needs by moving our bodies. Understandably, there are perceived benefits to outsourcing transportation, and very real consequences.

Exception is a morning plank to wake up my core, and sometimes forward bends with a weight. I don't like to do it, but I do feel better afterwards (like with cold showers), so I do it. Harder to do with longer exercise routines, which is why I addressed the cause of my unease rather than slapped on plasters.

nine_kabout 5 hours ago
> mitochondria, which process energy within cells, showed a significantly decreased capacity to burn both sugar and fat in healthy individuals who get less than the recommended 150 minutes of exercise a week.

150 minutes a week is about than 22 minutes a day. Like 11 minutes twice a day. This looks like a really low effort to rid oneself of the risk of early decline.

sidewndr46about 4 hours ago
I've seen studies like this before. They'll suggest that as little as 15 minutes of exercise significantly improves health in some group they studied. My initial assumption was they added 15 minutes of additional exercise. No, they studied people who did literally nothing. Then had them exercise 15 minutes a day.

As you might guess, their outcomes improved greatly.

SchemaLoadabout 4 hours ago
This is sadly not a rare type of person. I'm worried my parents fit this description, they drive everywhere and work an office job. I'd guess on average they get 0 minutes of exercise a day.

I think people get this image in their head that someone who doesn't exercise ever is this comically fat unemployed person when in reality it's the average office worker who isn't fitness minded. A good chunk of HN users wouldn't be getting 15 minutes of exercise a day.

xboxnolifesabout 3 hours ago
The amount of time in the exercise advice keep getting shorter and shorter. The common advice when I was younger, in the USA, was an hour of exercise. Couldn't get enough people to do it. Then it was 30 minutes. Still couldn't get people to do it. Now the advice has been 15 minutes a day for a while, and we'll still not be able to get people to do it.

The environment and culture needs to be structured such that people get the exercise they need "naturally". The vast majority aren't going to go out of their way for it.

Schiendelmanabout 3 hours ago
That's a big part of why zoning is so dangerous. In most of the western world (Europe too on average), we pushed down population density so much that your typical destinations are much less likely to be within walking distance, so you don't walk.
wodenokotoabout 3 hours ago
HN is always so sarcastic on this point, but a large part of the population is not getting 15-30 minutes of actual exercise a day.
free652about 4 hours ago
15 mins of walking or exercise. I did 2 hours of walking 15k steps and it's barely moved my required cardio load to 10 and I need over 200 weekly.
SchemaLoadabout 4 hours ago
A lot of people who use a car to get around will spend most days doing literally no actual exercise. For someone who lives in a more walkable area, 22 minutes of exercise is just living live normally without actively "exercising".
Insanityabout 3 hours ago
I walk to the office during warm days, it’s about 30 minutes to get there. I get essentially an hour of walking just by commuting.

If I drive, it takes me 15 minutes (Toronto traffic is horrible). So doesn’t even gain me much in terms of time.

Just sad that temperatures here drop so low I don’t want to walk for half the year lol.

Frickenabout 4 hours ago
A studied showed that elderly asians have better health outcomes that their western counterparts in part due to their practice of sitting on the floor. The added exertion of standing up from the floor rather than a chair makes a material difference in their health.
mc3301about 4 hours ago
Some of the health tests in Japan that elderly people take include a "standing to sitting on the floor and getting back up all unsupported" test. Scores are based on time, effort, emitted sounds (like grunts), hands-on-ground and whatnot. I don't know the specifics, but it is used as a "health measure."
nickjjabout 3 hours ago
I remember reading somewhere that one of many long life markers is if you can go from sitting on your butt straight into standing without your hands or knees touching the floor.
Gigachadabout 4 hours ago
At least in China they also have a lot of public parks where they all gather for group exercise with all the other elderly people.
mrexroadabout 3 hours ago
And the Bay Area as well :)
anon2916 minutes ago
I have no idea what 'sedentary' even means. I work on a desk mostly but I also walk 15 - 20 k steps per day because that's just my life and I accomplish most daily tasks (shopping, going to park, coffee, etc walking). Is that sedentary?
faangguyindiaabout 3 hours ago
I was busy building a sensorless maintenance calorie tracker. Sometime back i posted this on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48614890 It also has "sedentary" detection which i find pretty useful for the phases when my activity level drops, reduced activity directly reflects in your maintenance calories which maybe useful to some.
Herringabout 4 hours ago
I'm confused. The study doesn't mention "Zone 2" even once ...
b212about 2 hours ago
Of If I walk 10 km a day on average and do strength trainings 2-3x a week but sit for 10 hours a day - am I sedentary or not?
tim-tdayabout 3 hours ago
Exercise is the key to a long healthspan.
wonderwonderabout 4 hours ago
Seems like a potential use for peptides like Mots-C or SLU-PP-332
jr3592about 4 hours ago
It would be cool if one could safely adapt to modern life (lots of sitting, required focus over long sessions) without having to spend time exercising if they don't want to (to be clear, some people want to). Imagine if you could just take something to get all the benefits of exercise, without having to actually spend the time. That'd be pretty great for everyone if it truly was safe and without downsides (skeptical).
SchemaLoadabout 4 hours ago
What if we could just lay in a pod 24/7 taking peptides and nutrient supplements while having an endless stream of instagram reals beamed in to our eyeballs on our Meta Raybans. That way we would never have to do pesky things like go outside or move.
topgrain2about 3 hours ago
On the other hand, a pill to replace all the un-fun activity needed to stay in shape while having a family and office job would let you enjoy fun activity a lot more, and want to do those things more often, since they’re all more-fun and safer if you’re already in shape.
fhdkweigabout 4 hours ago
They make stationary bikes that fit under a desk. I've never used or seen one, but they exist. I considered getting one during 2020, but they seemed impossible to source.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=desk+stationary+bike

wonderwonderabout 4 hours ago
they make walking pads as well for the desk; I've never used one but have seen some people who seem happy with them