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#issues#model#found#find#never#keep#same#bug#sqlite#don

Discussion (46 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

jph00•33 minutes ago
I'm a big fan of sqlite-utils, but I really don't like how Python (particularly 3.12+) changes how sqlite's transactions work -- the native behavior explained in the sqlite docs is much better IMO. I understand why Python had to change it (to be compatible with other databases) but I don't think it's a good model for sqlite.

Therefore, I created apsw-utils, a port of sqlite-utils to the amazingly-awesome apsw lib -- which is a really idiomatic sqlite lib for python. It's here: https://answerdotai.github.io/apswutils/

I've used it in lots of projects including in significant production stuff, and it's always worked great for me. IMO if you're serious about doing sqlite in python, at some point you'll probably want to check out apsw.

dreadnip•about 2 hours ago
The problem I have with this workflow is that the models are still too eager to please. If I ask it to scan a release and note possible issues, it absolutely will find issues. If I keep running the same prompt, it will keep finding issues. I’ve spammed GitHub PR reviews and it just keep finding (or inventing?) new issues. There is never a “Nothing found, good to go!”. I have to keep reminding myself that the model will always give me what I ask for, regardless of the reality/truth.
KronisLV•4 minutes ago
> There is never a “Nothing found, good to go!”. I have to keep reminding myself that the model will always give me what I ask for, regardless of the reality/truth.

Tell it something like:

  Before doing any commits or producing a summary for the user, you must run a verification sub-agent.
  Its goal is to adversarially and critically check your supposed findings to look out for false positives and hallucinations.
  Doing so with a separate sub-agent with relatively clean context (but with all the relevant details of the problem space that appear to be facts) should improve our confidence in the findings.
Maybe also something like:

    Try to classify each found issue as either SERIOUS, CRITICAL or NITPICK, discard nitpicks, we only care about impactful issues.
It should somewhat cut down on the useless output.

I've largely found the same in regards to generating code - the initial pass will often have bugs that the model itself can find but only when run as a separate sub-agent without the confidence poisoning in its own previous output.

baq•about 2 hours ago
You didn’t do it enough. They stop finding bugs eventually. Also, different models can find different bugs (though they do find the same ones, too, which is good and expected). For best results you want to run multi model reviews in loops.

If you had multiple people look at your PRs multiple times on different days results would be very similar.

PunchyHamster•about 1 hour ago
I've had it find bug, I asked it to make test to trigger the bug, and then it figured out it's not a bug. It will absolutely do wish fulfilment
left-struck•about 1 hour ago
Yeah when these models find a bug i like to ask it to write a test that will fail if the bug is real and pass when the bug is solved.

It’s not perfect but usually it works pretty well, and I’ve had the model come back to me with oh actually the test passed, the bug doesn’t work exist

As a bonus, you’ve now got a test that can detect that bug if it comes up again.

csomar•38 minutes ago
It'll find a non-existent bug - fix it - figure out it broke a previously working thing - try to fix again - etc..

The "keep improving" the code base prompt have been tried and it never works. The LLM has no consciousness of where to stop and where to draw the lines of reasonableness.

MallocVoidstar•about 2 hours ago
No, depending on the complexity of the issue models can be into loops, where they go "this is definitely an issue and must be fixed", and then the resulting fixed code gets "this is definitely an issue and must be fixed", and then the resulting fixed code has the original 'issue'.
bfjvibybd6cuvu6•about 1 hour ago
That's a different kind of loop.

For a normal review loops you can ask the model to return with nothing found if nothing is found and not invent things and it will do a better job of exiting without anything found.

memoriyato3•about 1 hour ago
yeah, happened to me: "A is very wrong, you should do B", and on the next fresh review loop "B is very wrong, you should do A"

typically this means there is some ambiguity in the specification, and the model flips between alternative interpretations

mejutoco•14 minutes ago
You could ask the model to say "nothing found" if the improvement was stylistic, or other constraints.
imhoguy•about 1 hour ago
You need to create review skill and there define what "issue" or "good" are for you to limit sensitiviness. Otherwise you depend on model's random threshold or non of such then you get perfection chasing.

Anyway it will never match your judgemend completely unless you upload your brain dump into model.

higeorge13•36 minutes ago
You need to run them in review loops, this is the only way to reduce or eliminate these issues.
embedding-shape•about 2 hours ago
> There is never a “Nothing found, good to go!”.

Like when you do recursive programming, have you tried providing more/better stop conditions? If you literally just say "Continue until there are no more issues" then it'll do just that, but if you scope it better, like "Only mention issues related to X, Y or that leads to Z" and so on, you'll get less noise and more focus on issues that actually matter (to you).

memoriyato3•about 1 hour ago
also helps adding negative conditions like "do not nitpick", or specific bad attractors that you see "do not investigate/report anything related to symlinks, they are not a concern"
onion2k•about 2 hours ago
If I keep running the same prompt, it will keep finding issues.

I've had the same experience, but whenever I've reviewed what it finds it's basically right. It's pedantic, and a lot of the problems aren't things I really care about, but they definitely are real problems.

I'm not sure you can blame the AI for always finding problems if a) you asked it to, and b) there are problems to find.

starquake•about 1 hour ago
I use Claude Code and one of the steps in my workflow is do a review loop until no issues are found and it never loops. So my experience is entirely different. Even if I say: fix all issues. So not only the critical issues.
9dev•about 2 hours ago
There is a point of diminishing returns though; the issues suggested will get speculative, or point out comment unclarity, or "defense in depth". But I agree it’s somewhat annoying to rarely get clear pushback in terms of "no, this looks good enough to me, release it"
Myzel394•about 1 hour ago
That's just plain wrong. The new models do not hallucinate as much as they used to (in my personal experience)
TripolitianFish•about 1 hour ago
> plain wrong > (in my experience) What are you even saying.
girvo•42 minutes ago
That their vibes are more real than your vibes
threatripper•about 2 hours ago
You get the same result if you pay humans a good sum of money to find issues.
nvme0n1p1•about 2 hours ago
Definitely not. I've never seen a human trapped in that kind of infinite loop. Humans know that if they don't stop at the end of the day, they don't get to go home to their wife, and if they don't finalize their list of issues, they never get their contract paid out.
embedding-shape•about 2 hours ago
Pay people per hour of work and even if there is no actual work, people will definitively find a way of spending hours doing things. If you've worked with contractors/outsourced roles before this will happen from time to time.
Tiberium•about 2 hours ago
I think this was true with older models, but at least with GPT 5.5 it can genuinely tell you "no issues found" after a few passes of finding real issues.
knorker•39 minutes ago
What do you mean? Are they valid flaws or not?

Would you like it to stop when there's still flaws in the code?

gib444•about 1 hour ago
It's not eagerness to please (that's anthropomorphising), rather it's a desire to bill you more money/use more tokens

(The fixed prices are just temporary discounts)

5701652400•about 1 hour ago
just a note. in most parts of the world 149.25 USD can cover utilities, water, and food for a month for 1 adult person or even a family.
klustregrif•35 minutes ago
Had this been a corporate environment the net saving by using one person partly and an agent as opposed to one person full time for the time it would take to implement this, would be a net saving enough to cover utilities, water and food for an entire village.

It’s silly to act like this was an added cost in a vacuum, or that any costs translate directly into charity for arbitrary families. Also in some place it would even cover rent for half a day.

xyzzy123•about 1 hour ago
In Sydney Australia its < 2 days of median rent.
Muromec•about 1 hour ago
That's my electricity bill for a year, okay
mirekrusin•about 1 hour ago
In others it's pizza night for family or half a bill for sushi dinner, so what?
Tiberium•about 2 hours ago
The title cost is only if this was raw API usage, but it was included in a subscription, so it's a small subset of the $200 plan:

> I upgraded to the Claude Max $200/month plan (I was previously on $100/month) to increase my Fable allowance for the remaining time until the July 7th Fablepocalypse, when even Claude Max subscribers will have to pay full API cost for the model.

I really wonder if Anthropic will stick with their decision to keep Fable on extra usage credits until they "get more compute", especially in the light of GPT 5.6 very likely coming out next week (it's confirmed to have the exact same pricing as GPT 5.5)

embedding-shape•about 2 hours ago
> especially in the light of GPT 5.6 very likely coming out next week

Finally have an explanation why GPT 5.5 xhigh felt dumber and dumber these last few weeks, always the same thing when a new model release is about to come out...

toxik•about 1 hour ago
Opus has been extremely stupid recently, reckon that's because Fable needs to look appealing?
user43928•about 1 hour ago
I have never noticed a degradation in either Claude or OpenAI models, and the benchmarks people set up have never shown a statistically significant deviation either: https://marginlab.ai/trackers/claude-code

Yet the same claim is being posted every single day, including new claims that the Fable 5 model has degraded compared to the initial release, guardrails aside.

andy_ppp•about 2 hours ago
This is to prevent Chinese labs distilling Claude again right? And free advertising again?
keizo•about 1 hour ago
Glad to see others dual wielding: “I used to think that the idea of having one model review the work of another was somewhat absurd—it felt weirdly superstitious. The problem is it really does work”
shevy-java•39 minutes ago
Skynet wants to make us poorer.
hnbad•about 2 hours ago
Fun fact: because AI written works don't have copyright (in the EU at least) and the level of prompting many people engage in doesn't suffice to create a copyrightable "work" and software licenses require you to actually be able to grant a license using rights you hold on a work, not only are many AI generated "works" not actually protected by copyright but by selling licenses you're actually in breach of contract law and may end up owing the licensee software you don't have.
Slothrop99•40 minutes ago
IMO the real "fun fact" is that supposed "IP monopolists" like Microsoft and Oracle's lawyers are apparently totally fine with this stuff.

So obviously people are going to take their lead and not get legal advice from some greasy dweeb at the bottom of HN.

vasco•about 2 hours ago
And nothing happened and zero people got in trouble over it.

- Narrator

Muromec•about 1 hour ago
...So far