Topcoat: The full full-stack framework for Rust

wwertyk about 4 hours ago 20 commentsRead Article on github.com

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Discussion (20 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

carllerche•about 2 hours ago

I didn't expect to see this here yet. We opened up the repo because we ran out of private CI usage. A blog post is coming next week :). Happy to answer questions here though.

One thing to keep in mind, the main reason for Topcoat to exist is that many organizations are already using Rust for infrastructure-level or performance sensitive reasons and often just want to build a web app using the programming language they already use.

jdw64•2 minutes ago

I'm looking at it with anticipation, but I want to hold back because I don't want to offend you... I think this works as a wrong pattern in Rust.

When I see syntax like $(...), it looks like a transpiler that embeds Rust AST inside JS. I think it would make Rust's already terrible developer experience even worse. I think the actual value of the string length on the server side will differ, specifically `len()`.

And I'm not sure if bundling binaries and assets this way is the right approach. This feels less like Rust and more like a DSL that intersects Rust and JS—it feels like something different.

jjice•41 minutes ago

Oh man I'd love a nice full stack framework in Rust! Django, Laravel, and Rails are very neat. I used to be a micro framework kind of guy, but having everything integrated is more and more appealing over the last few years.

This would take a long time to get feature complete with the core of those big full stack frameworks, but I'm rooting for it! Getting to use the Rust type system with a full stack web framework sounds incredible.

carllerche•38 minutes ago

Yes, that is the goal. Those frameworks have a bit (more than a decade) head start though :) there is a lot to build.

There already is an ORM (https://github.com/tokio-rs/toasty/). You can see a sketch of the roadmap here: https://github.com/tokio-rs/topcoat/issues/104

biorach•10 minutes ago

> Those frameworks have a bit (more than a decade) head start

A decade? More like 21 years

frio•about 1 hour ago

Exciting, but I’d give a lot for an equivalent to Django. There are very few problems I need to solve that are fixed by htmx style “full stack” apps, but many that are solved by the generated admin, authentication framework, caching, eventing etc.

Unfortunately, you end up bound to Python’s poor performance and poor typing stories, which Rust solves in spades.

westurner•21 minutes ago

Here's a v0.0.2 jinja2rs built on minijinja with optional python compatibility; CompatMode::Django(…) Django template language (filters, app-directory loader, auto-escape) :

jinja2rs::filters : https://github.com/westurner/dsport/blob/main/src/jinja2rs/s...

jinja2rs::filters::django : https://github.com/westurner/dsport/blob/main/src/jinja2rs/s...

Which Rust components are like the Django ORM and django.contrib.admin and DRF/FastAPI; with convention over configuration and tests and great docs?

hobofan•about 1 hour ago

Hmm... I'm a big fan of a lot of the things that the tokio project has built and a happy user of axum.

I'm not sure that projects like Topcoat and something like their ORM is a great direction for the project, and worry that they will possibly gain outsized adoption in the community based on name recognition rather than merit.

carllerche•about 1 hour ago

I think it is highly likely topcoat / toasty will get split out. It is just work, especially since tokio-rs has more CI usage available than the default GitHub org.

seanclayton•38 minutes ago

Back in my day 'batteries-included' at least included schemas/models and a database abstraction. Claude can whip one up quick!

carllerche•16 minutes ago

It's built: github.com/tokio-rs/toasty/, just not tightly integrated yet. That is on the roadmap.

BobbyTables2•about 1 hour ago

Does “full-stack” really mean “webserver + webpage” nowadays?

carllerche•about 1 hour ago

Roadmap: https://github.com/tokio-rs/topcoat/issues/104 ORM: github.com/tokio-rs/toasty

It is early, a lot is coming, but you can already build good stuff now.

canadiantim•40 minutes ago

Looks incredible, also loving toasty. Great work all around

27183•about 1 hour ago

Is the name a POR-15 product reference? Incredible if so :D

  \m/_(>.<)_\m/

newaccountman2•about 3 hours ago

I don't feel like this is solving the painpoints I feel in the Rust web framework ecosystem. And how is it full-stack if they don't have anything for the DB layer in here?

carllerche•about 2 hours ago

This will (very soon) integrate tighter with the Toasty ORM http://github.com/tokio-rs/toasty/. E.g. tight form -> record flow. We are shipping now though to get usage.

What pain points do you have in the Rust web framework ecosystem? Happy to hear.

the__alchemist•about 1 hour ago

Likewise. I'm commenting based on my position:

  - Rust Fanboy; use it in several domains (embedded, PC applications, bio/chem)
  - Web dev is the main thing I still use Python for, as there's nothing on Django's level.

Of interest: I am not a fan of Async in rust. I get that for web stuff it is a suitable model, but I still don't like it for no original reasons. As you stated, I don't feel like this is solving the missing aspects, e.g. auto migrations, admin, email, auth, etc.

carllerche•about 1 hour ago

Migrations: Done with Toasty (https://github.com/tokio-rs/toasty/) which I intended to be integrated tightly with topcoat. You can see a rough roadmap here, which will be posted: https://github.com/tokio-rs/topcoat/issues/104

Better to ship early and hear what people want though :)

goldturd•about 1 hour ago

Reminds me of if ruby had a baby with diarrhea.

Rust in general