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aautomatoney about 3 hours ago 57 commentsRead Article on toneyalexander.github.io

ZH version is available. Content is displayed in original English for accuracy.

Hello HN!

I found that picking out plausible but diverse skin tones for my digital art and game development projects was kind of difficult, and I got curious about if there was a way to define a color space that made it easy.

I've built a color picker and procedural generation algorithm based on the space as well as a bunch of other fun js features and demos throughout the page that use the equations. If you find it interesting, I have lots of explanations of how I built it and what properties the space has.

The methodology might be a bit shaky, but hopefully the result is as helpful for others as I have found it! There's lots of room for improvements (see the Future Work section), but I'm really happy with how it turned out.

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Discussion (57 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

ecesena2 minutes ago
Nice. This is relatively old work (2020) but Pinterest had/has skin tone features, for example if you're searching for cosmetic products. Worth a check if anything might be useful for your work. https://medium.com/pinterest-engineering/powering-inclusive-...
s1mon23 minutes ago
It's always entertaining to try to understand these things from first principles. Color and skin color in particular are very complex things to measure and model. It's not just a physical quantity, it's also a matter of human perception based on lighting and a host of factors.

It seems like some work was done to research existing approaches, but I don't see any reference to Pantone Skin Tones [0]. Without intending to, I've worked on 3 different projects which involved measuring skin tones for makeup applications. The Pantone range is not 100% perfect, but it's pretty well done and easy to understand. There are two axes: a light/dark one, and red-yellow one [1].

[0] https://www.pantone.com/na/en-us/skintone

[1] https://cosmeticsbusiness.com/pantone-skintone-guide-80945

ptmkenny3 minutes ago
There's also the Monk Skin Tone Scale by Dr. Monk and Google (available under a CC attribution 4.0 international license). It was developed for machine learning, so it's not exactly the same use case, but it provides 10 colors in a variety of formats, including hexadecimal. https://skintone.google/get-started
zild3d3 minutes ago
well its not a free as in beer color space
vermarishabout 2 hours ago
This is beautiful work! First, I thought this would involve using PCA to go from 3D to 2D, which would result in an easier selector to use, but at the expense of representing every person.

Then, I thought this would stop at using the U-space vectors (the ones that form the basis of the PCA image) and their corresponding ellipse to form our color space, but no, the function fitting is a very slick idea, even if it was executed by hand.

Lastly, I love the presentation of sampling from different r values. Whether you sample from a fixed r value or a range of r values, I bet this has great applications in game design or animation.

I still don't quite get the manual data labeling process at the beginning? It seems like it would encode some bias, but the consistency of the first point cloud and the results certainly speak for themselves.

dr_scullyabout 2 hours ago
If you look at my doctoral thesis, in fact skin colour can be parametrised using melanin and haemoglobin concentration; which it means it is indeed (roughly) two dimensional. This allows you to invert the colour of a pixel and identify someone’s chromophore concentration. This is based on previous work of others cited in the thesis.

https://discovery.ucl.ac.uk/id/eprint/10093345/

dTalabout 1 hour ago
Oh goody, an expert in a question I've always wanted to ask.

Once upon a time, I encountered a sort of interactive museum book called "Earthsearch". One of its "exhibits" was a color wheel, made of two spinnable pieces of tinted acetate, that purported to be able to generate any skin tone. I suppose this is three degrees of freedom, since for any position of the two wheels you could access a range of colors around the edge - but the printed page underneath was simply a grayscale gradient, so one degree of freedom was simply luminance.

The book was released in 1994, and was very confident. It even went as far as to encourage the reader to see a doctor, should their skin tone not be achievable! What color model were they using?

dr_scully34 minutes ago
That’s sounds very interesting. I’m not sure. In the thesis, I generated spectral curves and transformed them using the light and camera sensitivity curves. So, in theory it could be used in any color space.

But I can’t vouch for the accuracy of the book, but I suspect it was an approximation.

The haemoglobin and melanin are roughly in separate layers of the skin. There is an approximation known as Beer-Lambert that models the skin as two semi-transparent layers. This ignores subsurface scattering, but is roughly correct.

So, in theory two acetate sheets might replicate this. That’s my intuitive opinion. It has been many years since I did this work.

mhinkabout 1 hour ago
Oh man, that's a blast from the past, I think I had that book! Was that the one with an aluminum cover?
GolDDranksabout 2 hours ago
I've heard that the so-called "yellowish" skin color that non-tanned East Asians tend to have, is due to relative abundance of subcutaneous fat. If that's true, is that captured by the haemoglobin dimension or is it a yet another degree of freedom?
dr_scullyabout 1 hour ago
We used the approximation that the hypodermis was a perfectly white reflector; so the thickness wouldn’t matter. The collagen fibrills scatter light in such a way to create a yellower tint. So a person’s skin might appear this way in the absence of melanin and haemoglobin. I’m not an expert on population statistics, and so cannot give an opinion on specific skin types. Everything was based on ranges.

There is a separate effect of increased bilirubin content, that would appear if someone was ill.

skydhashabout 1 hour ago
Not an expert, but when I was learning 3d modeling, there was a good chapter on subsurface scattering which affect the human skin rendering. It’s what give it liveness instead of looking like a doll.
Joel_Mckayabout 1 hour ago
All skin is slightly translucent, and color/tones forms a gradient across the surface of the skin. Your upper cheeks and forehead are usually slightly reddish, and the chin/neck are slightly bluish.

People only turn yellow if they have kidney or liver damage. However, some distinctive features like Lucy Liu's natural freckles are tough to draw right.

We looked around a lot for a procedural texture/shader to help make the project characters look less sickly, and please also consider supporting the persons work if you are able:

https://kuhantilope.gumroad.com/l/ultimate-skin

Best of luck =3

automatoneyabout 2 hours ago
Thank you! I call out the manual labeling bias and also that a future work improvement would be to be scientific about that labeling process (multiple labelers, expert labelers), and then to feed that into the equation generation steps. Part of where the "good enough" naming comes from - I was hoping that using my art brain and keeping a bunch of reference images in mind (shout out to the Humanae project) would maybe offset the bias a bit. But 100% right on the bias being there.
mboabout 1 hour ago
Love it!

I was looking at this a little while ago, and used some of The Pudding's data on makeup/foundation shades (https://pudding.cool/2018/06/makeup-shades/) and plotted it into the Oklab colorspace (https://observablehq.com/@55th/foundation-shades). The shades form themselves into that same crescent as seen in the article.

automatoneyabout 1 hour ago
Woah I LOVE both of these! When I get a chance these are 100% getting linked from the writeup.
andaiabout 2 hours ago
Nice. Most of these colors look right to me, but I'm also seeing green, blue and purple? If you're curating colors from the space manually then it's not a problem.

"Only realistic colors" would be a different problem. And I'm not sure if there's a way to solve that problem without excluding some real colors too.

(Maybe if the colour selector was a different shape? I don't know much about color spaces.)

automatoneyabout 2 hours ago
Yes absolutely right on - I mention much deeper in the page that in a picker UI you can use a bigger range, but that in a generation context you might want to be a bit more selective. I go into it a bit more when I explain what R^2 is.

"not sure if there's a way to solve that problem without excluding some real colors too" - 100% right on that too. A big part of this work was to define a way to tweak/improve the equations in order to approach a solution to these issues - part of my hope in sharing is to get more eyes and brains thinking about this and proposing improvements!

compass_copiumabout 2 hours ago
I would have "show sphere" on by default--this kind of threw me at first, too.

This is a really nice project. Great work and a great write-up. Thanks for sharing.

richiebful1about 2 hours ago
Reducing the R^2 value to ~1.5 excludes skin colors that are extremely blue, green and purple. That seems to be a happy medium between including real outliers and excluding colors like green.
wongarsuabout 2 hours ago
If you drag the bottom slider all the way to the right you only have plausible skin tones. Drag it all the way to the right and you can match skin tones for orcs, Na'vi and djinn
stephantulabout 2 hours ago
Love it. I especially thought the introspective “aside” section on related resources was great, and I wish more people would show this kind of reflection.
automatoneyabout 2 hours ago
Thanks! I hope to send lots of love those ways, they're basically all things that I found outside of this work that I liked enough to remember (I think Humanae was the one that I found while doing this).
E-Reverance28 minutes ago
I definitely don't speak for all non-white people when I say this, but personally I find people obsessing over it disturbing/offensive independent of whether their intentions are racist or anti-racist. I did find modeling/data-driven perspective cool though
manoDevabout 1 hour ago
Skin tones are particularly difficult to pin down, besides the pigmentation there are two effects at play: 1) sub surface scattering (light goes thru and bounces under the skin a bit) and 2) some infra-red emission (the responsible for making some people appear magenta on digital photography)

So even when you get the palette right, to paint it like a believable material in a convincing way is still super hard!

xp84about 1 hour ago
This part ( https://toneyalexander.github.io/inclusive-color-space/#pick... ) is especially cool.

Would love to see this 3-D picker ability in the many character designers out there, instead of the lame 8 swatches or whatever.

barbecue_sauce10 minutes ago
I think the ideal would be to use this picker to select a few tones, and then gradient map those across different parts of the body according to a grayscale map. Then you could fine-tune things like palm color, cheeks, facial tone, etc. individually.
dofmabout 1 hour ago
Interesting though that the 1.5 setting (at least on my older iPhone) doesn’t really ever seem to cover the range of skin tones of indigenous Australians (“aboriginal” and Torres Strait Islanders), who apparently get their skin tones from a somewhat different expression of genes than other peoples with darker skin.

The 2.0 “outliers” cover those skin tones.

Masai and some Somali skin tones, similarly, look better represented by the outliers.

The full range of possible human skin tones is perhaps a bit of a challenge for technical colour representation, partly because diffuse reflectance seems to vary so much and that is hard to approximate on screen (e.g. as any website designer could attest, the difference between representing silver and grey is the use of highlights), though the representation of skin tones is a lot better than the early colour film era.

automatoneyabout 1 hour ago
Yes, 2.0 is the value I tuned the equations around - but I think there's definitely room for improvement in terms of squashing the space along the fair/deep axis in order to get better results at lower R^2.

The issue I ran into was what happens when the space moves beyond RGB, but I think the fix is to just add clamps to the end R, G, B values.

PullJoshabout 2 hours ago
I love this! Such a beautiful use of some real nerdy math to benefit humans in a way non-nerds would appreciate.
m_w_about 2 hours ago
This is super cool! I have always loved projects that try to categorize color space. Usually my work has gone in the other direction - isGray, isCloseToWhite, isPastel - but it's the same insofar as it's defining shapes like your matplot visual.

Wish I had this on hand like this three or four years ago when I was working on VR avatar software - we had hard-coded skin tone options at the time - would have been a cool addition!

automatoneyabout 2 hours ago
In sharing this around I've found more people than I thought who've done things to semantically chop up the color space - definitely a more interesting area than I first thought of when working on my narrow use case. Feels like it'd be fun to play with something that has a whole bunch of different regions of color space labeled - like "here's where IsPastel overlaps with IsGreen".

But absolutely the hope is that this is a tool that stays accessible to people for whatever they're building and everyone can slow down on reinventing the wheel here for every character creator/digital art application.

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rrradicalabout 1 hour ago
Very neat project. Could I use this code to generate skin tones in my own project? Or more meant to just be educational/inspirational? I guess I'm wondering if you've considered adding a license.
automatoneyabout 1 hour ago
Good catch, added MIT license - feel free to use it! On top of that, my understanding is that math/equations are not subject to copyright, so the core part of this work (the equations/ideas) I think legally has 0 limitations - even if there were a restrictive license. But IANAL so might have some misconceptions.
Joel_Mckayabout 1 hour ago
Procedural generators are often free if you look around for a bit.

https://kuhantilope.gumroad.com/l/ultimate-skin

https://extensions.blender.org/add-ons/mpfb/

https://github.com/alessandro-zomparelli/tissue

ymmv, as some paid plugins actually speed up the funky blender workflow (the auto-Bake plugin by the same author is important for procedural generated textures.)

https://sanctus.gumroad.com/l/SLibrary?layout=profile

Have a great day =3

ptsnevesabout 2 hours ago
On the movie Dolemite by Eddy Murphy, they go over the fact that black people absorb light and white people reflect, and how that changes the motion picture shooting process totally. Also how one size does not fit all. Cool project! I am not much into the humanities part of the project. For me this is as natural as having a localization framework, just in this case for skin tones.
RIMRabout 2 hours ago
For anyone confused, turn off your dark mode extension. :)
automatoneyabout 2 hours ago
Oh wow, didn't even think of how that sort of thing might affect the page.
efitzabout 1 hour ago
Never seen anyone #E6FFF8 (bottom right corner).

An albino that consumed too much colloidal silver for years?

hluskaabout 2 hours ago
This is excellent work! You’ve got a 49 year old and a 10 year old equally into it. That’s impressive - nice work.
aaroninsfabout 1 hour ago
Not my domain though I followed the data science enough to nod as if I really followed it,

but this is just lovely and inspirational work. A unique marriage of hacking in the celebratory sense, thoughtfulness, and meaningful contribution. Outstanding.

automatoney41 minutes ago
Wow what a touching compliment, thank you so much!!
Abh1Worksabout 2 hours ago
Cool work!
ralusekabout 1 hour ago
If you're ##CCFFFF please go to the hospital
bellowsgulchabout 1 hour ago
Skin is so interesting as a surface to think about how light passes through and bounces off of.

There is at least one article published by a technical artist at Pixar who describes modeling a skull within a human scan so that subsurface lighting is more accurately rendered.

I suspect you could combine this with dr_scully’s comment and GolDDranks’ to reach the nuance involved in long tail realism details.

automatoneyabout 1 hour ago
There's a lot of really good research papers that touch on this area from what I saw - would definitely be cool to see if that extra nuance could be added without dramatically increasing the math complexity; in its current state, the code could be used in any programming language without a library.
uhdozo11 minutes ago
Very interesting, I'll need to read it again lol
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moralestapiaabout 2 hours ago
Interesting.

It might be a bit biased though, as there's much more variation on fairer skin tones than on dark ones (there's only one that looks like the colloquial "black").

This contradicts all research and social media from the past decade.

Tossrockabout 2 hours ago
...Did you read the article, or use the picker? It's a continuous (up to the limits of RGB quantization) space which includes thousands upon thousands of shades of black. The selected tones at the top of the article are random and change continuously.
383toastabout 2 hours ago
Seems to underrepresent pale skin tone variety
LocalHabout 2 hours ago
Turn off your dark mode reader extension
hneqy2wqlsabout 1 hour ago
This hits different after a long week