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#chip#silicon#cpu#amd#still#https#web#www#fan#where

Discussion (24 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

nubinetwork10 minutes ago
Heat probably cracked it. I had a xp2000+ and even with a heavy copper heatsink and a 9000rpm delta fan, the thing still ran hot.
Aurornisabout 3 hours ago
Hardcore builders will remove the lid of their CPU to get the best possible thermal contact. The performance improvement is very small and not worth it but the bragging rights are fun. Unless you destroy the chip while delidding it, that is.
jdiffabout 3 hours ago
The article mentions this, but this was before CPUs had lids. When delidding a CPU, you have to be very careful not to crack the silicon die that you are applying force directly to. In the case of this Athlon, even care wasn't enough.
polpoabout 3 hours ago
Interestingly, AMD's previous gen processors, the K6/K6-2/K6-III, were all lidded flip chips. A delidded K6-era CPU looks remarkably similar to the early Athlons which did away with the lid.
3453f4fabout 2 hours ago
There are three good pieces of history for you to look at.

First, the NexGen Nx686 prototype... that became the K6 after AMD bought NexGen.

https://web.archive.org/web/19990901212245/http://www.sandpi...

https://web.archive.org/web/20000831030211/http://www.sandpi...

https://web.archive.org/web/20000831030227/http://www.sandpi...

Second, the AMD K6 prototype... which came in a small footprint ceramic package.

https://www.cpushack.com/chippics/AMD/K6/AMDK6-Processor-CA-...

Third, the AMD K7... which also came in that small footprint ceramic package, on a Slot A PCB, with L2 cache chips.

http://www.cpu-galerie.de/html/amdk7athlonslot.html

Enjoy!

xatttabout 1 hour ago
Flip-chip packaging is still common in laptops. Still a (albeit minor) risk if you're repasting an older laptop.
weiran37 minutes ago
TBH I don’t think I’ve seen a lidded chip on anything other than a CPU.
formerly_proven38 minutes ago
The article is mistaken, all the lidded chips (discussed here) are also flip chip/C4. Just with a metal plate on top. That would be in contrast to the earlier lidded chips (like a 68k or i486) with ceramic packages, where the chip is mounted right side up on the ceramic package and then wire bonded, the lid just covers the bond wires.
Torkelabout 2 hours ago
Is that actually the silicon that's on top of a cpu?

I've always assumed the silicon is super thin - "wafer" thin. And then some material is added where the bonding wires etc are embedded in and the pads or pins are attached to.

For sure it's like this on newer CPUs, where there is not a single piece of silicon bit rather multiple ones with interconnect between them.

keyringlight27 minutes ago
On the bottom [0], youtuber/cooling specialist/tuner der8auer did an interview with an intel engineer a few years ago. One of the points they bring up is that it's not a pure gain to have less silicon between the logic and the next interface to another material conducting heat away as the silicon itself acts as a conductor/spreader, i.e. sideways as well as upwards, so there's a balance.

[0] https://youtu.be/ljZt_TQegHE?t=120

Ekarosabout 2 hours ago
I would guess that the effective layers are super thin. But such super thin parts do not have much structural integrity. So you leave material under it so that you can handle it. And then just drill to those parts as needed.
formerly_provenabout 2 hours ago
No, that’s the die sawed out of a wafer. Those are wafer-thin, i.e. about 0.8mm. On some newer CPUs the wafer is ground down to improve thermals. In normal C4 packaging like here the active layer is sandwiched between the metal layers (which sit on the interposer PCB) and the bulk silicon (95% of the thickness upwards, to the camera). Silicon is not a great heat conductor.
moffkalastabout 1 hour ago
There was just this video [0] yesterday showing the whole process for a GaN LED, it's fascinating how crude the post processing can be in contrast with the ultra precise etching and layering.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHyoz8fFpUM

M95D37 minutes ago
I learned (can't remember where) that I should try to rotate the cooler a little bit, with the mounting clamp still on, before undoing the clamp and removing it.

I still have a working Athlon XP / KT133A with ISA under my desk.

anonymousiamabout 2 hours ago
I've got one sitting next to me that I'm in the process of rejuvenating. The north bridge has a small fan with integrated heatsink/boat that I'm searching for. The CPU fan is still okay. It's a pre-PCIe system, and has a VGA output (no DVI or HDMI).

The main reason I'm keeping it around is that it's got 5-1/4" & 3-1/2" floppy drives, and T1000 and DDR4 tape drives.

walrus01about 2 hours ago
the fan is likely a 12vdc 40x40mm, relatively shallow one (not very high airflow and not loud) one so you should be able to get a replacement from mouser or digikey. it's basically the same thing as a 80mm case fan from the same era scaled down.
8cvor6j844qw_d6about 3 hours ago
Is it ever fixable assuming one had unlimited money and wants to fix instead of rebuy?
jdiffabout 3 hours ago
You'd need unlimited money and hyperadvanced future technology. There's just no way to get things lined up and no way to reconnect any of it and no way to reclaim or reattach any of the tiny bits of silicon that preferred to become dust rather than take sides.
nanolithabout 3 hours ago
If you had enough money to convince AMD to sell you the tapeout, and if you could hire a fab using a similar process, you could make a new CPU. Other than that... probably not.

The next best thing would be buying a replacement.

nubinetwork7 minutes ago
You could change the chip on the substrate, but why, you could just get another cpu...
dist-epochabout 2 hours ago
Maybe, you would have to buy AMD or make them sell you the schema/chip masks for this chip, then buy ASML and ask them to spend the next 10 years figuring out how to regrow silicon on the broken chip layer by layer while also re-exposing the missing part. You would probably also need to buy a chunk of TSMC since this would require advanced chemical processing such that you can re-grow and re-expose a part of the chip without destroying the existing part. You would also need a lot of investment in scanning technology, to measure exactly what the current state of the chip is and what needs rebuilding and where.
Zardoz84about 2 hours ago
nope
moffkalastabout 1 hour ago
Just jam the piece back in there, I'm sure it'll be fine. /s
avazhiabout 2 hours ago
We need those microscope guys to take some shots of this.