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Discussion (66 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

vintermannabout 1 hour ago
> Lee's stated goal was to “desensitize everyone to the phrase ‘cheating.’” If you say it enough, he argues, “cheat begins to lose its meaning.” A16z praised Lee's approach as “rooted in deliberate strategy and intentionality.”

Investors: but surely they won't cheat me!

codemog5 minutes ago
Lee is a product of his environment. Tech interviews are bullshit and he exposed it. School work is mostly bullshit and he exposed it.

How can you honestly tell this young man not to cheat and get ahead when the president does it regularly? We’re a spiritually dead country and the youth is reflecting it. Don’t use Lee as the scapegoat.

prolly973 minutes ago
This - though I'm not certain that the product really solves any of these identified issues of "y is bullshit"
MattGaiser6 minutes ago
Do they care? Just cheat the people in the next round!
sscaryterry29 minutes ago
I'm tired of cheats.
radarsat1about 2 hours ago
I know this is a very minor point in the article, but reading the message next to the Doublespeed phone farm:

> out of 130 dms sent, 15 pointed to a conversion.

> From a former ecom guy's lens this is insane

Why do these otherwise very smart people always seem to draw these kind of shortsighted conclusions? It seems pretty obvious to me on the surface that this "works" because it's new. As soon as it becomes common place people will see that channel of communication as a source of coercion/marketing and start to ignore it. Aside from the fact that he seems to be drawing massive conclusions about the viability of a business based on extremely little data here, it seems really naive to not consider in his calculations the long term effects of essentially ruining the value of the channel that you are exploiting to get those numbers in the first place.

stephantulabout 2 hours ago
Tragedy of the commons. The person that ruins a commons first takes all the supply.

This is why regulation before, not after, the commons are plundered, is important.

XorNot27 minutes ago
Rather depends on the "spoils" capacity of the channel.

The windfall may not even justify the initial expenditure before it's exhausted.

Macha7 minutes ago
It is bad for this guys business to admit it’s unethical and probably has a time limit, so he doesn’t. There’s no big mystery there. If he’s unethical to his victims/spam targets, why would you think his marketing of all things would be honest about the tradeoffs? Even “respectable” companies feel very little qualms about lying by omission in marketing.
automatic6131about 2 hours ago
>Why do these otherwise very smart people always seem to draw these kind of shortsighted conclusions?

The obvious conclusion is they aren't very smart. Consider that Cluely guy: the best returns on lying are to be the only one lying while everyone else tells the truth, so why does he want to promote lying? Partly dumb ragebait marketing (this isn't going to attract talent... and while it has given them millions in startup funding, how long are the sharks giving him the money going to do that?) and partly he just isn't very smart.

tedgghabout 3 hours ago
How come Flock is not listed? That’s the most troubling company a16z has heavily invested on and supported.
bambaxabout 1 hour ago
Marc Andreessen is an evil man with the behavior (and appearance!) of a Bond villain.
hotelsacher2 minutes ago
He's the embodiment of the banality of evil. Just can't avoid being cliché.
the_gipsyabout 1 hour ago
Had to google his name. Welcome to the Egghead's lair, Mr. Bond.
latexrabout 1 hour ago
Search for “conehead” instead (it’s a movie, but you’ll get it from the poster).
JSR_FDEDabout 2 hours ago
Don’t forget a16z’s breathless boosterism of NFTs and Crypto.

They really are the gift that keeps on giving.

dabeeeensterabout 1 hour ago
They really are the grift that keeps on giving.
vintermannabout 1 hour ago
The grift that keeps on griefing.
larodiabout 1 hour ago
Humpty is a joker and a con man, and a man without vision (in his own words!).
octocopabout 3 hours ago
If your metric is growth I guess this is where you end up
TwoFerMaggieabout 2 hours ago
Not surprised at all as Marc Andreesen has been in the rabbit hole for a while: https://www.semafor.com/article/04/27/2025/the-group-chats-t...
seydorabout 1 hour ago
Probably it's a random sample of AI companies. Curing cancer is the marketing slogan, AI is not capable of doing that. But it's good enough to impress bankers and lawyers who will keep inflating the bubble for the foreseeable future.
digitalsalvatn22 minutes ago
Curing cancer is such a lazy goal. Finding out how to make everyone smarter is a much better one.

That's really it, isn't it. How do we make smarter people, without them getting insufferable?

wseqyrkuabout 2 hours ago
All investors do this, they don't really have an idea of "the future" they want to build. They just "find something they can throw money at". Their words, not mine.
tgvabout 2 hours ago
Not true. There are banks and funds that have environmental policies. Where you invest speaks about your character.
mathieuhabout 1 hour ago
As Locke said: "I have always thought the actions of men the best interpreters of their thoughts."

What organisations say are their principles and what their actions reveal them to be are often very different.

Even at my own job the CEO claims to be a big environmentalist yet the company is spending huge amounts of money on LLM tokens and the "leadership" team is jetting off around the world for "off-sites" constantly.

Seems to me that the vast majority (I leave off saying "all" simply as I have not surveyed all of them) of these claims are nothing more than greenwashing.

tgv33 minutes ago
Yes, there's a lot of bullshitting. I've recently changed banks, because the old one was just lip service. There are orgs that track how banks perform, at least here.
vintermannabout 1 hour ago
Unless you oppose our economic system in a fundamental way, you always accept that wealthy people get to consume more resources than poor people. That goes for shared resources like "acceptable impact on climate and the natural world" too. As long as they pay for the privilege in a comparable scheme to what they want (carbon taxes, tradable quotas etc.), and aren't some sort of anticapitalists, they aren't hypocrites.
vintermannabout 1 hour ago
One way to cope with the world going to shit is that to pretend that you want it, and thus you're somehow "winning" when the world goes to shit.

It'd be nice if it was limited to places like 4chan. But as I always say, powerful people believe all the stupid things regular people believe, so no surprise investment funds act like that too.

icantevenholdabout 1 hour ago
Liminal places like 4chan are upstream to mainstream culture/sentiment.

Most of the incel, anime, doomed, and bro culture that was prevalent / nascent there 15-20 years ago is now super mainstream.

apiabout 1 hour ago
This needs to be taught in school. I’m shocked at how many people don’t get it. I’ve believed this forever which is why I follow the “strange” including weird cultural spaces, fringe para-stuff, whatever.

What it really is is the interface. It’s where things go when they are on their way out, like discarded scientific ideas, but it’s also where new things first appear.

If you watch the fringe you know what’s coming and going.

It can be hard to tell sometimes which it is though, coming or going.

wseqyrkuabout 1 hour ago
You think you "cope" and are being resilient, but enough people doing that actually leads to the said bleak future, at which point it doesn't matter who's to blame.
vintermannabout 1 hour ago
I didn't say I was doing this. It's just something I think I see.
apiabout 1 hour ago
Pretty solidly false. Some have a thesis. Some have rules about what they will not invest in.

The theses and rules vary, of course, because there are many investors.

This one seems to have a thesis of “make 80s and 90s noir cyberpunk real.”

wseqyrku42 minutes ago
> Some have a thesis. Some have rules

You know I didn't just come out and say that. I actually liked Ben and his character (who doesn't, right?). Let's just say I got disillusioned about all of them in the correct order.

Talk is so cheap you wouldn't believe.

spacechild1about 1 hour ago
I guess that's were you end up when you aim for "zero introspection". Marc Andreessen proves again and again that he's an utter piece of shit.
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walrus01about 2 hours ago
You know how sometimes you're exploring a location in a post-apocalyptic video game and find a message on a 'datapad' or scrawled on the wall in blood or something, as a world building fiction exercise to inform the player how screwed up the dystopia became in its last days before everything went totally to shit? Well, now I have some new material for you...
torginusabout 3 hours ago
If you think this is morally acceptable, in which case, what you're doing is essentially trying to trick the algorithm to uprank your content. But people at Facebook/X/Youtube can just update a table row and accomplish 1000x as much as you're trying to do. Their business model is selling a less powerful version of that.

When I was a kid, I used to go on private WoW servers. There were always people there who would invariably try to pick a fight with admins. It always went the way you expected.

mrtksnabout 2 hours ago
People often forget that the world is not just US or "the West". What he is investing in is a phase that the West certainly is headed into and we will be testing the idea of creating a feedback loop that gives more and more power to people who are successful in one thing to call the shots in all other things. I would say so far those people demonstrated very low efficiency and inability to match the ranks of the China Communist party in pretty much all metrics, including the creepy stuff. One may argue that the Western way of doing dystopia is a self-correcting loop, so maybe eventually we may have more advanced and optimized dystopia than what China or Russia can achieve through centrally held power. Alternatively maybe the human nature will prevail and all this will actually lead to another run of freedom and democracy. Considering the history of Europe, both can happen as stages of a continuous loop.

Anyway. China, India and others will have their own futures with their own theories on how the society is supposed to function, so no the future be it bleak or bright is not the future of humanity but USA and to some degrees Europe and the rest of Americas.

walrus01about 2 hours ago
Some of the creepy things like the 'phone farm' have been done for many years in China and other locations. I follow the social media of a low-budget 'phone farm' operator in Pakistan who has about 400 phones which are used for various forms of paid "boost your post/boost your business" social media manipulation domestically in Urdu lanuguage social media.

He's doing it a somewhat more labor intensive way, not using fully automated software tools to drive each phone (he can hire people for the equivalent of $280 a month USD salary converted into PKR currency), but the results are much the same.

Particularly in the past five years I have seen a rapidly growing trend of people doing stuff that I would categorize as "importing sketchy shit people have been doing for a long time, and can often get away with doing in a developing country, to the US/Canada/Western Europe" as a business model. Like, you think the loan apps that some US based startups have launched in the last couple of years are sketchy? Look at what's been done in India for years now. Just as one category example.

https://www.aljazeera.com/economy/2023/12/25/the-dark-world-...

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/26/business/india-lending-ap...

Valakas_26 minutes ago
For me it's insane, how in this day and age, we don't conduct DSM-V / ICD tests (interviews) that screen for Cluster B personality disorders on everyone, and bar, at least those with anti-social PD, psychopathy, or extreme forms of narcissism, to work in positions of influence or power over others.
fragmede25 minutes ago
It seems we are successfully screening for people that do.
Gareth32113 minutes ago
People don't like to entertain the idea that determinism could exist. Specifically, the idea that some people are just born bad, mean, or unintelligent. When people commit crimes there is endless hand-wringing about how "society" failed them. They blame it on poverty, or abuse, or inequality, or racism, or anything which absolves the individual of their agency.

For the record, I am determinist-light. It's clear that some people are just born with sociopathy or low IQ, irrespective of their life experiences. These people would benefit immensely from early intervention.

xienze13 minutes ago
Well that's predicated on those tests being infallible, not open to personal interpretation, and not subject to sabotage ("hey Mr. Psychiatrist evaluating Person X, we at <competitor> think X is a total sociopath, perhaps you might be convinced to see it our way"). And that's not even getting into how what the DSM labels certain things as being "mental illness" or the like is subject to change over time.

You somehow get labeled a narcissist during a job interview. What's your recourse?

ModernMech43 minutes ago
Of course, isn’t Andreessen the one who believes introspection is a waste of time, a fad from the 1900s the only outcome of which is to slow one down? Why even consider the long term consequences of your actions when they can make you billions of dollars in the short term? Introspection, like empathy, is for suckers and losers.
alex113840 minutes ago
Yeah really

How do people like him get the money to fund his little projects, it's amazing

zipy124about 3 hours ago
I mean a lot of successful new tech companies were about side-stepping legislation. Some that are missing here are airbnb which effectively side-stepped fairly strict hotel legislation (Though there is a case to be made that it simply improved short-term lodging), and uber which side-stepped strong taxi/private-hire legislation.

This is one of the primary reasons that tech startups flourish in America but not in Europe.

rbanffyabout 2 hours ago
And you know that when someone bets so much money in a dystopian future, they’ll actively work towards that outcome.
walrus01about 3 hours ago
Well this is all pretty fucking horrifying.
alex1138about 3 hours ago
I remember reading about Andreessen coaching Zuckerberg, having to spoon feed him answers at trial, and apparently he was one of the masterminds behind the dual class shares/proposed third class of share

(I mean that Zuckerberg apparently understood nothing. I mean when I say, 'spoon feed')

This is the same man who came out and said Snowden is a traitor. Now, I've since heard other versions on this so I'm willing to entertain the arguments. But a top VC being like he is, well, it's concerning. It's concerning he chooses what to fund

vrganjabout 1 hour ago
The guy that quoted some of the early fascists in his reactionary manifesto that included a list of enemies wants to build a bleak future? Say it ain't so!

"I have zero introspection. As little as possible" https://www.youtube.com/shorts/b6Zw50f5jJk

We can tell, Marc. It's not a good thing. It's the sort of thing oblivious villains say.

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Havocabout 3 hours ago
Intentionally going after old people because they’re more susceptible to AI and declaring as much on record is fuckin wild.

Does SV now optimize for evilness?

sznioabout 1 hour ago
SV is a paperclip optimizer, except instead of maximising paperclips, it maximises human misery.

I won't be surprised when "The Com"[1] will be revealed to be a project of some rich SV accelerationist.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Com

georgefrownyabout 3 hours ago
They call it "goal orientation".

I think there's a reason they fret so much about the paperclip optimisers, because they recognise them.

LandRabout 3 hours ago
> Does SV now optimize for evilness?

Since when has it not ?

walrus01about 2 hours ago
I think the existence of the internet as a mass-market entertainment platform used by billions of non-tech users is part of it. SV from like the 1970s/1980s seemed a much more innocent place.

The microcomputer/home computer boom (1978 to let's say 1998 or so) and growth of software companies selling packaged box software you could run on your PC was in many cases not run by people who I would categorize as fundamentally evil.

Did a lot of weird cut-throat business stuff happen in the 1980s? Probably. But it all seems very cute and pales in comparison to today.

Schiendelmanabout 1 hour ago
What makes you think they are less evil other than absence of high-quality information?
throwup238about 1 hour ago
livinglistabout 2 hours ago
Making world a better place by so lo mo
kotaKatabout 3 hours ago
They’ve been grooming the elderly for years to fall for right wing propaganda to keep securing the ignorant elderly vote so this is just the natural progression to keep grooming them to fall for whatever narrative Horowitz wants to peddle for his GOP overlords to get one final dickover on the country as it keeps running into the ground.
Hikikomoriabout 2 hours ago
They're also part of the same group of christian tech feudalists as Thiel and supports trump/project 2025. Seems like they all went insane because the government can still say no to them.
utopiah7 minutes ago
So... nothing new? /s

You naively thought Silicon Valley was just a funny TV show about people wanting to make money, a lot of it, but even that was an idealized version.

conartist6about 4 hours ago
Shit-eaters
pythonic_hellabout 3 hours ago
Ghouls. Sucking the life out of society.
rbanffyabout 2 hours ago
By now the FDA should recognise the only thing that’s still safe to eat is the rich.