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#git#more#jujutsu#things#commit#undo#conflict#same#ersc#using
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Do you have any idea if this is coming to jj soon?
btw, did Martin leave google?
Martin left Google for this, yes.
Not really. I remember my early years with git and the favt was that I never needed more than clone, add, commit, pull and push. While I’ve done some mistakes that got ne to learn more, especially with creating branches and undoing. I’ve never needed a lot, even when I started using GUI which exposed more concepts.
Why? Because I have no understanding of version management and how it’s useful in a dev workflow/release process. I was just using it for checking in work.
Since then, I’ve read the “Pro Git” book, learned how devs and teams handle versioning and devel a good understanding of how git can help me in my coding process and general software development. And it’s very good at what it does.
They have less to walk away from then.
JJ is just so low friction. The seamless and painless shuffling of commits, working up and down the commit chain without explicit rebasing, unchanging change-ids. The min identifiers in change-ids being highlighted. Being able to make commits and worry about the message later. Snapshots of changes while you are working serving as a tool agnostic undo.
Painless and sensible cli args that are vastly more consistent than git.
Superior conflict handling.
You can “jj undo” anything and it works perfectly.
It’s fabulous.
> "@--+::"
I have no idea what that means and I’ve never had to type anything remotely like it.
The rev specification language is pretty elaborate but you don’t need to know it.
Or if it were a family tree, "all descendants of your parents and their cousins" (ignoring that family trees are way more constrained than DAGs).
I have no idea why you would use that revset; I assumed it was just an example of revset's complexity and power.
As a pragmatic matter, unless I'm scripting with revsets, I personally stick to a few go-to aliases.
Similar to you, 95% of the time I do the simple use case that I've memorized. The problem is that even after a decade of using Git, when I get into those 5% where something goes wrong, I have no idea how to actually solve it. None of it makes any sense in my head, and I have to search for a bunch of magical commands to run, or nuke things to get back to a good state.
With JJ, it just makes sense. It's intuitive and clear. I have been able to recover without any help. Just the undo alone is basically a life saver. Rebasing and merge conflict resolution is so much simpler.
Yes I probably won't use it to its full potential, but still, the little I do use makes 10x more sense than Git ever did.
- undo
- shuffling commits around with squash, split, and rebase is much better than git’s interactive rebase
- make commits without having to come up with a branch name (I might make three versions of the same change in parallel to see how they compare)
I see git is working on adding some of this under the history command. The revset language is really not esoteric: @ is head, @—- is two behind head. That’s about it.
Part of it is that the sorts of shuffling I used to avoid because they were a pain in git (so I didn’t feel I needed them improved) are so easy in jj that I do them all the time.
If you care to learn more, there's tons of posts on hn and the broader web, so I won't bother sharing any links. I will say, though, that you should use it with jjui, which is a tremendous TUI for jj - you don't even really need to learn any of the actual jj syntax because it just handles it all for you.
https://github.com/idursun/jjui
We have git.
jujutsu works with git.
git can do everything jujutsu can do (otherwise, jujutsu couldn't work with git).
Thus, jujutsu is a UX / new steering wheel.
ERSC is trying to be a GitHub competitor with what surplus value?
Don't get me wrong, GitHub has a slew of its own problems, but I have not seen any commentary on how ERSC addresses any of the downfalls GitHub has too. We're jumping from one frying pan into another, currently-cooler one?
What about SourceHut? Codeberg? They could offer the same steering wheels.
Edit: Thank you to everyone who replied. The enterprise/teams infrastructure angle makes sense.
While jj works with git, it doesn't have to. jj has the ability to work with many backends. Git is the popular one in the open source world, but that doesn't mean that other ones are not possible. And that's the core tech we have built.
With the rise of agents, more and more companies are running into the limits of what Git can do. It was never designed for large monorepos, and so there are performance issues, but also features that it's missing, that are important once you start trying to scale things up to an entire organization. Companies like Meta and Google ran into these things well before the present moment, but you don't have to be a FAANG these days to be running into this sort of stuff.
We also understand that incremental adoption is really important, especially for something as fundamental as source control. So our tech also has a git ingress/egress that will work with the core functionality, but more advanced things that git simply can't do will end up requiring using a non-git protocol. jj is the bridge between those two worlds.
I hope that makes sense! We have been in psudeo-stealth for a while now, this is the start of us coming out of our shell a bit and actually talking about what we're doing.
I’m not saying not to try or that there’s no value in turning the wheel once more. But I used to be excited about these kinds of things and now I’m not because I’ve seen the cycle a few times now.
But there are so many hooks into the Git workflow today, and I’m struggling to find a “user story” that would not be met by custom Git tooling. UX could be added to Git objects à la Gerrit with custom CLIs, custom Gitoxide ODB and (eventually) ref storage backends can help the server scale, and things like promisor remotes and partial clones can keep things smaller on the client side.
I’m curious what ERSC is able to share publicly about where the scaling fails with the Git specification? Is it the wire format, or the relative speed of upstreaming new things to Git? Or is the side-channel approach for storing rich data in Git objects insufficient in some way?
P.S. I wrote a blog post[1] about this a bit ago. I’m sure I’m missing something. Since I wrote it, I’ve wondered if the lack of deferred conflicts in-tree would be a scaling limiter.
[1] https://jdc.pub/posts/git-jj
Yes, it's important to realize that git is multiple things: the on-disk repo format, the CLI, and the wire protocol. Each has their own challenges, just like any project, but they can be tackled independently. But at the end of the day, there just are fundamental limits to the way that git does things that make total sense in the context Linus developed git for, but just do not in other ones. Some of those are performance related, but some of those are things like how the kernel is an open source project, and so per-directory ACLs are something that git wouldn't ever bother supporting, but are valuable for companies. We'll be talking about these things in the future, so I'm just going to be hand-wavy about it right now. But we do think that git is a really great system that has served us all well for 20 years, but just like how git displaced systems before it due to significantly re-thinking the details, for some users, making meaningful improvements over git will also require a similar significant re-think. That's just the way of technological development.
You mention performance issues with Git, but there are performance issues with this blog post.
FWIW I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. As a trivial counter example Git does not currently have a way to store conflicts inside commits[1], which is one of our major features. The way this works is that we basically store the sides of the conflicting trees in the Git object database (and another conflicted tree pointing to all of them), but the actual data structure representing the conflict as Jujutsu understands it is stored elsewhere. Git will be very confused looking at a conflicted tree object created by Jujutsu -- it shouldn't break but it doesn't understand what it's seeing. So, if a object can be stored in the database that is correct but Git can't really "view" it properly, does "git" (or capital-G Git) support it or not? Depends on who you ask, I guess. The storage layout being intimately tied to Git "as a thing", part of its identity, is one of the most interesting properties it has.
The way I see it is this. Jujutsu uses the Git storage layout on disk. But basically all of the algorithms and UX between the two are completely different. That is where most of the real differences are. To the extent we integrate with lots of fiddly Git details (eg tracking branches, remote integration etc) so that `git` commands work -- that's more necessity to make the UX nice. We could absolutely use the on disk Git format but in a way that was inscrutible to the `git` CLI, it just obviously would not be very nice.
As a disclosure I work at ERSC but I am also one of the maintainers of Jujutsu; this post is written with my maintainer hat on.
[1] At Git Merge last year, Elijah Newren prototyped and demo'd a really early and cool example of storing first class conflicts in Git, based on his work on ort-merge. So this might not be true forever :)
Yes, I like how jj does it!
Did a big `git rebase -i` yesterday and I felt stressed up, almost a bit angry, when there were some conflicts and I wasn't sure if I'd resolve all of them before it was time to leave, and work more later from a different laptop.
But with jj, no stress: I can just check in the conflicts, and later, on the other laptop: check out the conflicts and continue resolving.
(I just wish there was Git submodule support :- ))
I use JJ locally and for those that call it a "porcelain" or a "git UI" are missing a lot. Sure you can use it that way, but what I've found is that it facilitates (and perhaps encourages) a pretty different workflow than I'd use with just plain Git. I could pull off what I do in JJ in just plain Git... but it wouldn't at all feel natural and you can really see this when you start using a JJ driven repository with Git tools (including just the Git command line tools).
Personally, and as a mere version control user, I prefer the JJ model of version control much more than Git's. The mechanics of the UI was very easy to get under my fingers (the essentials in about a day), but getting the ideas and really getting an understanding/appreciation for the conceptual differences and their ramifications on workflow took a month or two of regular working and trying things. For me, it was worth the effort.
If I had to guess, then I would say ERSC is trying to build a `jj` forge based on this new hire and that would be amazing imo.
Just like TypeScript with JS, QUIC with UDP, GraphQL with HTTP, Android with Linux, and so on
> git can do everything jujutsu can do (otherwise, jujutsu couldn't work with git)
Replace "jujutsu"/"git" by "typescript"/"js", "quic/udp", etc and you'll understand.
assembly can do everything [insert high level language] can do. why not just write everything in that?
I don't know how experienced you are with jj, but one thing I can say for sure is jj offers significant ux improvements over git and they plan to have a backend eventually. we might see the first implementation from ersc. and from their website I see they are already taking things like agents into account from day one. so we might be in the verge of getting something that scales better with modern day workload?
For anyone curious the big thing with jj is you can undo. Basically if you were running a rebase and bungled a commit sha or branch name, no worries undo your way out, if you forgot to push but abandoned a commit not issues undo it. Same with all jj commands.
Delta db takes this a step further and everything you edit is a change so your actual edits are also all saved.
I find non destructive-ness for as long as possible approach very nice, since there aren't as many constraints on us not being able to do it nowadays, we had limited storage and stuff in 2000s perhaps but in 2026 even with the killer SSD prices it's fairly cheap to buy more SSD, we can definitely waste 100MB per project storing redundant history we may not ever need.
Same way in photoshop non destructive editing took over, especially useful for humans, but works for AI and LLMs too, they can undo their mistakes as well.
2. Yeah submodules aren't supported but since you can use jj in a git repo you can commit git stuff via git like submodules and then enjoy the world of jj. Since submodule interactions should be rare imho. I use it for a bunch of projects with submodules.
For instance, if you are interactively using `git bisect` and you mark commits as good or bad, and you accidentally mark a commit incorrectly, you have to do something like:
The reflog can't really capture this kind of thing, hence why you have a bisect log -- now a wholly separate concept that exists independently of the reflog.[1]Another example is when you do something like screw up an interactive rebase. Let's say you rebase 20 commits and then you get a conflict on commit 8. You fix the file conflicts, and continue. You accidentally solve the merge incorrectly, continue and get another conflict -- but only realize your mistake after you start solving it. The reflog can't save you here. You have to completely abandon the rebase and start over. (This specific example might be handled better these days).
I think the biggest thing about `jj undo` is that it works everywhere. You can undo rebases, merges, conflict resolutions, copies, deletions, whatever. The secret behind it all is that internally, jj is architected in a way where implementing a feature looks like you are working with a transactional database. You actually have `begin_transaction()` and `commit()` methods in the codebase that will make changes to the commit graph visible in an atomic way. When a command like `jj rebase` happens, all of the changes it makes are inside a transaction and committed at once. Every operation in the repo is a transaction, and it all goes into a log, which records the effects of a transaction -- very much like a database system!
So "undo" just means "undo the effects recorded in a transaction" and that is about all. And so it works for everything! And this design is very easy to intuitively understand and program against, as a maintainer, along with our other high level internal APIs. Any developer can easily write code that Just Does The Right Thing and the user can undo it and it's no big deal. When I develop and work on Jujutsu myself -- like I'm actively developing new features or prototyping ideas -- I almost always _use my own jj repository_ as a test repo while testing my builds.
In contrast, Git does not have one unified "transactional" layer for things like this. But not all is lost, there has been work on 'git undo' and it was implemented by... Someone who is now a Jujutsu maintainer[2]. :)
[1] Technically we do not yet have "step by step" bisect with good/bad yet (only "automatic" bisect that is one-shot), so that is something Git can do we can't do at all right now, but bear with me. :')
[2] https://blog.waleedkhan.name/git-undo/
You worked on multiple things, you sync with the upstream, then boom now you have conflicts in one or more of your local branches.
Instead of immediately presenting you a conflict resolution view (usually 3 pane vimdiff) and you'll have to resolve at the sync time, the commits are simply marked as "have conflict", and you can continue working on other things until you have time to deal with it.
And for a chain of commits that all have conflicts, chances are fixing the first conflict automatically resolves all other conflicts in the chain, thanks to the auto-rebasing feature.
What happens if one is unlucky and the conflicts are not automatically resolved from changes to the first commit? Does that potentially imply more work overall than if one was using a VCS that forced conflict resolution earlier, like git?
The main advantages are that you can do the changes piecemeal, in any order, at any time, and by jumping around in the commit history however you need or want to.
Sometimes the best way to solve a conflict is by changing something before the conflict, or by moving pieces from one commit to another. Git doesn’t allow this, you can only do: fully fix commit 1, fully fix commit 2, fully fix commit 3, and so on.
Why is git's "forced conflict resolution" better, assuming the same workflow (local change+sync upstream) would produce the same # of conflicted commits?
¹ https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dVzug1lHoOxdbFu8gcCJCu-G_uV...
Points of no return.
If you haven't tried jj yet, take it for a spin and see how you like it.
I have only played a little with jj and hg, but I felt that jj has a more modern UX, learning from years of Git existence (and even influencing Git, like the new `git history` command [1]). On the other hand, hg was created in the same month as Git, both trying to improve the experience of the VCSs available at the time (april 2005).
[1] https://lore.kernel.org/git/20250819-b4-pks-history-builtin-...
jj's data store is git. You can use jj while other people on your project just use git. There's no migration of data or history. You can use Github and all of the various git tooling that exists today.
As such, the initial cost of switching to jj is zero for individuals, teams, or projects. That's huge.
jj's ergonomics are significantly nicer. Fewer ways to shoot yourself in the foot, much better merge resolution, etc.
Where can I read on jj merge resolution strategies? LLM links to Arch Linux man page and other random stuff.
There's no network effect headwinds, it's interoperable with git (I assume most people using jj have an upstream repo that's on git).
Once you start thinking in jj it becomes frustrating having think back to use GitHub as a code repo.
When do you need something like this?
As a side note, jj has rules around company representation in maintainership, and so when this initially happened a few months back, ERSC actually became over-represented in the maintainers group, as we also employ several other maintainers. The project decided to add more maintainers to keep the balance, rather than ask folks to step down.
We very much want to properly support the upstream project, and we want to make sure that it continues to be awesome for everyone, not just our customers.
The CLA means Google also has a license to the code to do what they will with it, but it does not do copyright assignment. They do not own your contributions.
Most of the maintainer stuff is also overhyped in a way (OSS maintainer-heads know this). The maintainer group is largely structured to just keep things moving; not really a privilege but a responsibility -- making sure things get merged, doing technical reviews, ensure builds are unstuck, and hitting the green approval button. Our own community members also do code review, find bugs, triage things, answer questions, design features, help get users unstuck, etc. We are very much not alone, and I have great confidence in the constitution and strength of the community itself as someone who has been around the block a few times.
This is going to sound silly and "guy approves of himself" adjacent, but I've been doing OSS maintainer stuff for like 2 decades at this point, and jj is truly a gem as a project. It is vibrant, and the community is generally speaking insanely talented (huge number of git powerusers), and we have a weird dogfood advantage where people use the tool to contribute right back to it. Martin did an awesome job setting the tone of the project just through his behavior before many of us joined years ago. He's a naturally good project lead.
As I said elsewhere: I work for ERSC and I am a Jujutsu maintainer. This is just me speaking candidly on my own behalf.
> von Zweigbergk will continue to be a core maintainer of JJ as an open source project under the Apache 2.0 license.
When I do need to advance a branch name, `jj bookmark advance` is easy enough. And it works great with the model that `jj git push` pushes all out-of-sync branches. In this model, advancing a bookmark is the reliable signal that I’m ready to share work, not simply “having authored a commit”.
We liked our old look, but one funny thing about how things are going in the world: our old color scheme was too close to what happens when you ask Claude to generate a site, and so even though we paid a human to build it, we didn't want to communicate slop, especially because that's not what we did!
Nick Noble is our designer, he put in a bunch of work on this, and I really like it too.
There will be a lot more of it soon :D
Small hint: A moving background layer makes reading supremely annoying, and for some people even (virtually) impossible.
Any other reccs?
The things I am most interested in right now are jj and llms. And the intersection between the two. I'm thinking a lot these days about how agentic development is changing our industry, with source control being one part of that.
Looking forward to using the VCS stuff you'll create :- )
Is it the animation at the top?
I opened up Activity Monitor and CPU use looked normal but it showed the GPU was pegged at 100% as long as that page was open.
Rust is the default language for all of our non-frontend web stuff, yes.
(Martin joined back then, but we are posting about it today, so we should have the post date as today)
Edit: a fix is in review
I wrote about why I joined the company back when I did previously here: https://steveklabnik.com/writing/i-see-a-future-in-jj/
In short: we are building a next generation source control system for the enterprise.
We should be respecting https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Reference/A... . If we do not, that's a bug, and please let me know what browser/OS/whatever else combo you have if that is an issue.
love the website though, i hope i one day will be able to make something that elegant!