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#electric#fuel#aircraft#more#weight#system#plane#batteries#video#hybrid

Discussion (56 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

aliljet1 minute ago
To be clear, this is a hybrid aircraft, but it's still an awesome step forward!
QuantumNoodleabout 1 hour ago
These kind of startup excite me. More so than the "next killer app" or "look what we shoved AI into."

Cheap electric transportation can finally offset USA's lacking rail commutes and attack Europe's short flight market (which is already cheap). Now we need bigger planes or more frequent planes and the next startup to solve the energy needs.

mmcconnell1618about 1 hour ago
Interesting decision to build the whole aircraft instead of the propulsion system only. I wonder what the decision process was between retrofit of existing turboprop frame vs. build from the ground up? I would expect the level of effort and certification to be much higher building from scratch even though you get complete control.
imoverclocked10 minutes ago
Aircraft design is very intricate. Change the CG, break the whole system.

Fuel is often placed in wings because adding/burning fuel from your center of lift means your CG doesn't significantly change through a flight and you spend less on pumping fuel within the aircraft. With batteries, you are looking at a constant mass from the beginning of the flight to the end... so you can place it anywhere. Electric motors are orders of magnitude lighter than jet engines. Also, you don't need to pump electrons against gravity so placing all of that weight lower has handling/performance advantages.

By using an airframe shape that is well known, they are reducing risk and appealing to existing pilots. By building it from the ground-up, they are taking advantage of differences between the tech.

eg: all of that weight in the fuselage instead of the wings means that rolling is going to be much more nimble. Yaw might be affected as well, depending on the placement/moment of the batteries.

MBCookabout 1 hour ago
It may be too hard to do a good retrofit. If you basically have to tear the entire plane apart and rebuild and recertify it to put batteries in the right places, maybe the costs aren’t worth it for potential customers.

I know many planes use their wings as fuel tanks but given the weight of batteries maybe that doesn’t work.

I agree it’s interesting. Not a small undertaking.

795242 minutes ago
Generally all the weight of the fusaage has to go through the wings anyway so it is structurally more efficient to put weight on the wings in the first place.
Barbing37 minutes ago
And they do that with fuel?! Neat!
woods4212 minutes ago
I think an interesting aspect is that on normal aircraft fuel tanks have to be near the center of lift to maintain weight and balance as fuel is burned off. When using batteries, this is not really a concern, and I would think might lead to some more interesting designs. To be sure, if there is space in the wing, awesome - the batteries can now also be used as ballast though too if required.
huurtehoog31 minutes ago
Probably because they intend to sell aircraft, not electric motors.
lbrinerabout 1 hour ago
Judging by the seats, perhaps making it as light as possible. Existing airframes are relatively light but let's be honest, they aren't trying to save 500g here and there when they have massive jet engines to get everything airborne.
lefraabout 1 hour ago
I discussed with people working on aircraft components, and my understanding is that weight is a constant obsession for them. Propose a new system to Airbus/Boeing, and the first question they'll ask is "how much does it weight?"

Every kg saved is a kg more of freight that can be transported (or a little less fuel used to keep the plane in the air); save 500g for each seat of a 200-seat plane, and you can put one more paying passenger in the cabin.

notahacker29 minutes ago
Agreed. But for related reasons, aircraft aren't really designed for either the structural robustness or balance to deal with big heavy batteries, which is what motivated the clean sheet design.
arijun16 minutes ago
The noise wouldn't be significantly lower during takeoff/landing, only during taxi, right? Good for workers on the tarmac, but doesn't get rid of the largest noise pollution issue.
feb2 days ago
Heart Aerospace (YC W19) just flew the largest electric airplane ever flown — a 100-foot wingspan, a takeoff weight of 25,000 pounds, and $5 of electricity to get it off the ground.
ElijahLynn2 days ago
Thought this was a great watch, as a first time founder myself!
kooi2 days ago
From the video:

Range: 125 miles all electric

       500 miles with hybrid system (electric + conventional turbo prop)
yoavmabout 1 hour ago
In the video he explains that the goal of the hybrid system is mainly to be used when for some unexpected reason the airplane cannot land at its original destination.
Gibbon1about 1 hour ago
There are maybe some advantages to a hybrid system.

The higher reliability of electric.

Losing an turbine engine doesn't mean asymmetrical thrust. Plane still flies normally.

Losing an engine on takeoff you still have full power.

Electric motors spin up faster than turbines. Which means faster throttle response. Which you need when hit with a wind shear on landing.

Take off and landing under electric power means much less noise.

Efficiency, you can increase the number of props or fans to get a much higher bypass ratio. Worth noting the plane in the video has four props.

newsclues36 minutes ago
I’ve been tinkering with the idea of a hybrid system where the ICE system is its own bolt on component to an electric aircraft that is used for takeoff and altitude before it detaches and returns to the airfield before the aircraft cruiser on electric power. Could even have a rocket launch version for cargo
coredog6424 minutes ago
Separating in flight is a very tricky problem that requires massive amounts of testing and can go very wrong.
ck2about 1 hour ago
the concept of electric motors with ultimate "any" fuel flexibility for generators is definitely the future

then we are not tied to global fuel politics

and maybe airports will become far less toxic with leaded fuel finally being completely eliminated

(and there is a Ycombinator video channel? never knew)

10u152about 1 hour ago
Agreed, however only fuel for piston engine aircraft is leaded. Not many of them at a large commercial airport. More of a GA issue.
Robdel1228 minutes ago
This is awesome! More of this in YC and less Flock's.
gavinsyancey27 minutes ago
> It's the first clean sheet airliner to be flown in any category, electric or not, uh, in the US in in the last 18 years.

Uh, what about the Bombardier C-series (A220)?

ojbyrne23 minutes ago
Wikipedia says “It was initially developed by Bombardier Aviation with the program launched on 13 July 2008 and had two years in-service as the Bombardier CSeries.”

Hence 18 years.

Scrimptech2 days ago
Hope it's accurate. Sounds good to be true.
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tristanjabout 1 hour ago
The interior of the plane is clearly designed by an engineer. They stripped everything down to save weight, passenger comfort be dammed. The seats don't even look comfortable.

They need to hire an actual designer, if the plane weighs 0.5% more but has actual human usability that's worth it.

dmurray43 minutes ago
Really, a prototype airplane, the first of this size ever built with this novel propulsion system, had engineers involved in the design?
tristanj28 minutes ago
You've missed the point. The engineers went too far optimizing for weight, to the point of sacrificing usability.
MBCookabout 1 hour ago
But maybe they’re aiming at short haul cargo. And either way, wouldn’t that really be one of the last things to do? Just proving the plane can even get in the air and stay there for a useful distance on electricity is more important than how comfortable it is.
tristanj26 minutes ago
The video shows dozens of seats, so they are not only aiming for short haul cargo.
mhb7 minutes ago
And, unsurprisingly, the video also includes speaking where the head of the company says that.