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Tell HN: Docker pull fails in Spain due to football Cloudflare block

llittlecranky67 about 22 hours ago 338 comments

DE version is available. Content is displayed in original English for accuracy.

I just spent 1h+ debugging why my locally-hosted gitlab runner would fail to create pipelines. The gitlab job output would just display weird TLS errors when trying to pull a docker images. After debugging gitlab and the runner, I realized after a while I could not even run "docker pull <image>" on my machine as root:

> error pulling image configuration: download failed after attempts=6: tls: failed to verify certificate: x509: certificate is not valid for any names, but wanted to match docker-images-prod.6aa30f8b08e16409b46e0173d6de2f56.r2.cloudflarestorage.com

First blaming tailscale, dns configuration and all other stuff. Until I just copied that above URL into my browser on my laptop, and received a website banner:

> El acceso a la presente dirección IP ha sido bloqueado en cumplimiento de lo dispuesto en la Sentencia de 18 de diciembre de 2024, dictada por el Juzgado de lo Mercantil nº 6 de Barcelona en el marco del procedimiento ordinario (Materia mercantil art. 249.1.4)-1005/2024-H instado por la Liga Nacional de Fútbol Profesional y por Telefónica Audiovisual Digital, S.L.U. https://www.laliga.com/noticias/nota-informativa-en-relacion-con-el-bloqueo-de-ips-durante-las-ultimas-jornadas-de-laliga-ea-sports-vinculadas-a-las-practicas-ilegales-de-cloudflare

For those non-spanish speakers: It means there is football match on, and during that time that specific host is blocked. This is just plain madness. I guess that means my gitlab pipelines will not run when football is on. Thank you, Spain.

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Discussion (338 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

danirodabout 20 hours ago
Heh, lucky you, at least you get a message. My ISP just drops traffic to the affected IPs. No ping, no traceroute, just a spinner in the browser until it says "page not found".

Every response and comment from LaLiga, the football organization responsible for this, has been so far that this is a minor issue that only affects a few bunch of nerds who talk about "docker images" or "github repositories" or "whatever that means".

Meanwhile, there are testimonies of smart home devices like anti-theft alarms or automatic doors, that stop working whenever there is a football match, because their backends rely on Cloudflare.

Last week, a woman asked for help on social media, as the GPS tracking app she uses to see where her father with dementia is, went offline during a match. It was getting late and he still wasn't back home, and she couldn't locate the tag he was wearing to find him: https://www.infobae.com/america/agencias/2026/04/05/laliga-d...

It's hard to say this, because no one should experience an event like this, but as stressful as these are, it's the only way to make the mainstream people care about this censorship. "I cannot pull a docker image" will never be on nightly news, but safety and personal security is a more powerful driver for discourses.

pxcabout 19 hours ago
> Heh, lucky you, at least you get a message. My ISP just drops traffic to the affected IPs. No ping, no traceroute, just a spinner in the browser until it says "page not found".

This is generally how the GFW works in China. Instead of an overbearing nanny like a school or corporation's DNS blocker, you're left with a sense that you're on a version of the Internet that is just intermittently and somewhat mysteriously broken.

And indeed, in China, a lot of things that probably aren't fully intended to be blocked are not reliably accessible. Implementation varies, so you get strange routing and peering issues. It feels like an Internet that isn't fully formed, that hasn't finished coming together yet.

Nation states and corporations obviously gain some things sometimes by having Internet censorship/blocking frameworks in place. Maybe, sometimes, ordinary people even benefit, too, if it helps shut down illegal and genuinely harmful businesses.

But it feels like the whole world is gradually trending towards more and more Internet censorship without realizing that we are un-building a miraculous thing that took enormous effort and cleverness and expense to build. I wish we could think about this not only in terms of freedom (and we absolutely should think about it in terms of freedom), but how we are disintegrating the infrastructure of communication and computing.

RiverCrochetabout 17 hours ago
Your last paragraph: it is sad. But we had successful global networks before the Internet (the PSTN, telegraph) and we'll certainly have global networks after this at some point in human history. Perhaps in the the time between the Internet and what's next, the world will become a bit more mature about a few things.
Spooky23about 14 hours ago
Those predecessor networks weren’t problem free. Many conversations to “interesting” places were monitored.

The counter-reaction to this era will include additional communication control.

jazzyjacksonabout 14 hours ago
this is teleological thinking. it's not necessarily the case that things get better over time.
mschuster91about 16 hours ago
> But we had successful global networks before the Internet (the PSTN, telegraph)

These were ripe with espionage, wiretapping and sabotage. Access to it used to be highly restricted as well, up until the 90s for example you were only allowed to connect government-licensed modems to the German PSTN directly.

nrdsabout 17 hours ago
> a version of the Internet that is just intermittently and somewhat mysteriously broken.

That's actually just how the Internet is. Nothing to do with the great firewall.

freetangaabout 20 hours ago
All people affected should file a complaint with your ISP and with Oficina de Atención al Usuario de Telecomunicaciones claiming financial loss for arbitrary service censorship.
embedding-shapeabout 18 hours ago
I've been filing complaints since a year ago, told others to do the same too, nothing happens. There been moments I've meant to deploy fixes to issues but I cannot, because some tooling goes offline.

I've claimed financial loss, claimed sanity loss and everything in-between, but I'm afraid unless something reaches the European/EU courts, Spain will continue to be in the pocket of the La Liga owners.

Straight up fucking censorship with wide collateral being completely accepted in a Western country in 2026, beyond comprehension how this is allowed.

ryandrakeabout 17 hours ago
Whenever I get a little down over how much power unelected corporations have in my country, I can at least cheer myself up a little by being thankful that something as stupid as football doesn't have enough power here to control whether or not I have internet access.
drnick1about 9 hours ago
If this is done at the DNS level, run your own DNS. If not, use a VPN. Taking this to the courts is a long term solution, but in the short term you want to act on your own to evade censorship and oppression.
rock_artistabout 15 hours ago
If anyone who’s capable in Spain set a petition or the relevant steps and put it on HN. I’m pretty sure any Spanish resident in HN would be more than happy to take part even if it means to send a Bizum for the cause.

(Sadly as living in Spain for about a year I’m still not in such place to raise this or understand the full steps needed)

lentil_soupabout 18 hours ago
how do you make claims, here: https://usuariosteleco.digital.gob.es/? Can't find a way of doing it with Cl@ve
madaxe_againabout 4 hours ago
It’s football. I’m pretty sure there are a great many countries you could induce to do insane things if the populace could be made to believe that said insane things will help football.

I mean, didn’t El Salvador and Honduras go to war over football back in the 60’s? And I seem to recall there was a football match which helped precipitate the dissolution of Yugoslavia - national identities coalesced around football tribes.

emptysongglassabout 16 hours ago
Because the EU as a whole is quite happy to censor and generally wield the same tricks as "non-Western" countries in their desires to combat misinformation (however our EU bureaucrats define it), child abuse materials (see Chat Control that thing is not going to go away), and hatred (oh boy).

We've never guaranteed the right to free speech and because we haven't it's a slippery slope all the way back down to the furnaces of autocracy we sprang from.

The Spanish president has come out on record saying we don't deserve anonymity on the internet.

loloquwowndueoabout 17 hours ago
It would be great if there was a webpage with clear instructions on how to do this, maybe fill out a few questions and get a printable pdf you can mail, or at least telling you how to file an online complaint. Making complaints very low friction will lead to more of those and perhaps more attention to the issue.

Snail mail uses up physical space so it might get more attention, it would be hilarious to see news reports of truckloads of complaint mail being dumped in front of the whatever office.

embedding-shapeabout 17 hours ago
> It would be great if there was a webpage with clear instructions on how to do this, maybe fill out a few questions and get a printable pdf you can mail, or at least telling you how to file an online complaint. Making complaints very low friction will lead to more of those and perhaps more attention to the issue.

This is a great idea, we definitively should make this happen! If people are curious on collaborating on something, reach out, email in profile (English or Spanish emails welcome!).

bakugoabout 19 hours ago
Sadly, it won't accomplish anything. La Liga seems to have enough political power in the country to bury all of that. Probably bribing everyone involved.
cluckindanabout 18 hours ago
Corruption at that level could mean organized crime. Is there a culture of betting through illegal bookies, are they fixing matches, or ¿porque no los dos?
bluecalmabout 2 hours ago
It's Spain man. Nothing will happen, maybe they will call their buddies in La Liga to ask what's up if the complains pile up and then will ignore all of them if they are assured everything works as expected.
pixl97about 19 hours ago
Yep, flood them with complaints.
estebarbabout 16 hours ago
At this point the protests should be against the matches themselves. But let's be honest: nobody cares anymore.
xp84about 6 hours ago
Who cares if she can’t find her elderly father? A small price to pay to preserve the stratospheric prices on football TV rights!!!!
vascoabout 1 hour ago
The thing is it doesn't protect anything. All it does is funnel money to VPN providers
the_gipsyabout 19 hours ago
It's ridiculous and wrong what LaLiga does. But it's also a weakeup call to consider ditching cloudflare's centralization.
estebankabout 19 hours ago
The companies relying on cloudflare won't be in Spain. If you buy a GPS tracker by a Canadian company, developed in India, manufactured in China, they are unlikely to know, even it they cared, that a single country that accounts for a tiny percentage of their sales breaks fundamental internet infrastructure on the regular "because fútbol y dinero".

And when purchasing a product, there's no "bill of materials" telling you about the services it relies on, beyond "internet connection" at best.

otabdeveloper4about 3 hours ago
> breaks fundamental internet infrastructure

I think lots of countries block Cloudflare whole-sale.

Laundering IP addresses for (or against) shady purposes is, in fact, Cloudflare's whole business. It's a wonder Cloudflare isn't being blocked more often.

encomabout 18 hours ago
>fundamental internet infrastructure

I'm not saying this situation isn't bullshit, but the bigger problem is that CloudFlare is now "fundamental internet infrastructure". This is precisely the situation that the internet was designed to prevent.

Yesterday I got stuck in endless CloudFlare CAPTCHA's, trying to access theretroweb.com. I had to give up. Many such cases. I hate CloudFlare so much, it's unreal.

miki123211about 7 hours ago
The only reason this happens is because Cloudflare's centralization makes precise censorship impossible. That's bad in this particular case (as it results in over-broad censorship), but good in general, as it makes censorship harder.

Without Cloudflare, you can censor whatever you want. If you have the support of an (undemocratic) government on your side, you can even DeDoS them, making sure that information critical of you cannot see the light of day.

direwolf20about 2 hours ago
Cloudflare has nothing to do with it. Actually you should further insist on using Cloudflare in Spain to increase the collateral cost of this ridiculous government decision as much as possible. Make it so not a single website works during football, and see if the government changes their tune.
cryptonymabout 1 hour ago
If cloudflare is providing services to illegal websites, they very much are in full control of the situation. They knowingly choose to keep hosting that content, and have legal customers exposed to that risk.

You may like that the platform is open by default to everybody, but that's the obvious consequence.

trailheadsecabout 12 hours ago
I agree with this take (that it’s a wake up call). Makes one question their entire app design and if using Cloudflare is “good enough” for managing CDN, tunnels, etc. for their apps.
matheusmoreiraabout 5 hours ago
> Every response and comment from LaLiga, the football organization responsible for this, has been so far that this is a minor issue that only affects a few bunch of nerds who talk about "docker images" or "github repositories" or "whatever that means".

Translation: go away kid, we're trying to make money here.

tobz1000about 17 hours ago
> there are testimonies of smart home devices like anti-theft alarms or automatic doors, that stop working whenever [...] because their backends rely on Cloudflare.

The fault here lies 100% with horribly designed IoT devices that turn into bricks when they lose internet connection.

shibapuppieabout 7 hours ago
Yeah the horribly designed alarm system that can't alert a central authority that something has gone wrong. Maybe we should just put huge air raid sirens on our homes instead?
boredatomsabout 18 hours ago
Perhaps its time to put a VPN into all your CI jobs
tryauuumabout 18 hours ago
You can't fight political issues with clever technical solutions
toast0about 16 hours ago
It depends on what the political system is trying to do.

A VPN won't help against government blanket outages, where the target is complete control of communications, and attempts to circumvent may result in extreme penalty. In this case, where the government policy is to stop unauthorized streaming, and collatoral damage is acceptable, a VPN hosted in a more favorable location is likely to work enough. Afaik, I don't think Spain has the political appetite to block VPNs and such during football matches.

You can still fight the political issue with political means, but in the mean time, you can also get work done.

peanut-walrusabout 17 hours ago
Yes you can. Fight with clever technical solutions and the politics will follow once the solution becomes common or displays its usefulness. It is in fact the most effective way to fight dumb political issues.
psychoslaveabout 17 hours ago
That's actually part of rebellion modus operandi, so totally something realistic. But not within the frame of law and not in the sweet position of someone away from the "I'll die for the just cause" mindset.
logicchainsabout 16 hours ago
You totally can, that's why bittorrent still exists and works fine.
fc417fc802about 16 hours ago
That became a popular refrain at some point but the truth of it varies. In fact many political issues are brought about by technical changes so obviously the reverse must be possible as well.

What technical solutions can't change is the underlying social dynamics.

utrackabout 21 hours ago
They block the whole of Cloudflare R2, I believe the Docker hub is just (heh) a collateral.

When the La Liga match starts, everything that's proxied via CF (including zero access reverse tunnels) stops working.

There's even a website made for checking if the match is on: https://hayahora.futbol/

You can check if your host is affected: https://hayahora.futbol/#comprobador&domain=docker-images-pr...

micwabout 6 hours ago
Who exactly is blocking and on what legal base? If it's Spanish ISPs and they are massively over blocking, why are there no legal actions against them? (E.g. for not fulfilling their contracts)
Parodperabout 1 hour ago
ISP are blocking, because of a district judge's ruling.
nikanjabout 2 hours ago
On the one hand, you have money and famous footballers. On the other hand, you have a bunch of nerds whining about the internet being broken. The average voter (and politician) is out watching the soccer match, and doesn't care about the internet.
Moldoteckabout 4 hours ago
Football lobby is strong in Spanish political system. It's legal
mr_mitmabout 20 hours ago
Why do they do that? Sorry, I don't speak Spanish.
michaeltabout 19 hours ago
The football league would rather not have pirates livestream their ~90 minute games.

Pirates would rather not be blocked, so they create a new, disposable website for every game. Any blocking must happen fast.

Cloudflare would rather not block websites without a court order specifying the sites to be blocked.

The courts would rather not create a special fast lane through the courts, just to resolve a squabble between two huge corporations.

n6242about 18 hours ago
> The football league would rather not have pirates livestream their ~90 minute games.

Funny enough, I work in IT and I've had to use a VPN to be able to do my job when soccer is on, but my two non-tech-savy family members that do watch soccer using pirate livestreams say that they've never had any issues with blocked streams.

lentil_soupabout 18 hours ago
> Cloudflare would rather not block websites without a court order specifying the sites to be blocked.

why would they?

> squabble between two huge corporations

I think this is just LaLiga using it's cultural and economical power, don't think Cloudflare or the courts should be making exceptions just so they can control how people watch football

teaearlgraycoldabout 16 hours ago
The US is captured by the Israeli lobby. Spain is captured by the football lobby.
Pay08about 16 hours ago
So what, do they just block a range of IP addresses and are then done with it?
quadrifoliateabout 20 hours ago
Here's a good English-language article about it, with a timeline: https://daniel.es/blog/cloudflare-vs-la-liga/

Looks like same old regulatory capture.

maestabout 18 hours ago
Also, a classic tweet from the Cloudflare CEO re their fight with Italians authorities re censorship:

https://xcancel.com/eastdakota/status/2009654937303896492

Everyone looks bad in this conflict.

prmoustacheabout 20 hours ago
Because LaLiga and football in general is what is governing Spain really.
lentil_soupabout 19 hours ago
to stop people pirating football streams while matches are on. Insanity
bakugoabout 19 hours ago
The website has a language selector on the right just below the initial screen, just FYI.
ShowalkKamaabout 20 hours ago
to """"""""""prevent piracy""""""""""
sva_about 14 hours ago
Ah man, that shader in the background is like a rite of passage for people including a shader on their website.

https://www.shadertoy.com/view/lscczl

aftbitabout 13 hours ago
Ah the irony, I'm blocked from viewing that page by Cloudflare

Performing security verification

This website uses a security service to protect against malicious bots. This page is displayed while the website verifies you are not a bot. Incompatible browser extension or network configuration

jojobasabout 3 hours ago
Great, time to proxy through AWS, Azure and GCP so that these muppets block Spain from everything.
madbo1about 4 hours ago
Reading this from India, where stuff like this is pretty much Tuesday business. But that’s not the problem; the problem is precisely the one hour of your life spent trying to figure out whether the issue is your DNS, your VPN, your configuration, or your programming. “The government in the country I’m accessing this from just decided to shut down my IP for the next two hours” rarely crosses your mind.

India has consistently been at the top of the number of Internet blackouts anywhere in the world for years (Access Now keeps track of this through its KeepItOn project). These tend to be brief and localized, triggered by something as mundane as an exam or protest or local incident. It’s such a routine occurrence here that there’s even a reflexive response: mobile data works differently from other connectivity types, so go with that, try new DNS settings, rely on Telegram instead of WhatsApp when the latter fails you, and always have a list of mirrors.

What’s fascinating about this case is that it’s identical except for who is pressing the button LaLiga, a privately owned entity, in place of the government.

mrvaibhabout 20 hours ago
This is a great example of why blanket IP blocking is such a terrible enforcement mechanism. Cloudflare hosts hundreds of thousands of services behind shared IP ranges — blocking one IP to stop a piracy stream takes out everything else on that IP, including Docker registries, API endpoints, and CDNs that have nothing to do with football.

  The real fix on your end until Spain sorts this out: set up a pull-through registry cache (e.g. registry:2 with proxy.remoteurl) on a VPS outside Spain, and point your Docker daemon's mirror config at it. Your
  GitLab runner pulls from the cache, the cache pulls from Docker Hub via a non-blocked IP. Also insulates you from Docker Hub rate limits.

  But yeah, the fact that a court order about football streaming can break docker pull for an entire country is genuinely absurd.
embedding-shapeabout 18 hours ago
> This is a great example of why blanket IP blocking is such a terrible enforcement mechanism

AFAIK, they're not doing "blanket IP blocking", they're intercepting requests based on DNS and IP, and try to serve their own certificates and their own content. Obviously, in most cases it fails, as the certificate doesn't match the site, so the browser rejects it, but as far as I can see and tell, there is no "blanket IP blocks", more like "DNS and IP interception".

The difference doesn't really matter in practice, sucks regardless, but I thought I'd clarify for the ones who are not experiencing these blocks themselves at least.

tom1337about 19 hours ago
just wait until they block Azure as well so the official La Liga site also stops working
jacquesmabout 17 hours ago
Hmmm. Don't they have a reporting form or something like that? Down with those filthy Azure pirates on IP 52.166.113.188.
hunterpayneabout 10 hours ago
Starting a new business I see...this actually seems like the best form of protest here so good luck to you.
mcintyre1994about 15 hours ago
Dumb question but why don’t the pirate sites all host on Azure if Cloudflare is blocked and Azure isn’t?
fireantabout 6 hours ago
Besides the reasons already listed, Cloudflare is free, Azure is not. As a pirate site owner I imagine you don't want you payment information with your name associated with your pirate site. You can pay for hosting and dns with crypto.
tom1337about 15 hours ago
i have no data to back this up but in the past cloudflare was much more lax with piracy sites and I can imagine that Azure is stricter with blocking them
kjs3about 14 hours ago
I would imagine they do. The people running the pirate sites know what they are doing. Noone who really wants to stream pirated games is stopped. Blocking CF is performative, not effective.
littlecranky67about 17 hours ago
I wondered how they actually managed to have their own business to be unencumbered by that. At a certain corporate level, you have to have some piece of tech in your portfolio that relies on cloudflare. I hope one day there companion or "2nd screen" apps stops working during a game, because using cloudflare.
joquarkyabout 15 hours ago
Sounds like the answer here is to host alt streams on Azure.
jjcmabout 18 hours ago
Barring an Internet giant suing them in court, it really feels like this is unlikely to change as most just don’t understand the why or the effect.

Someone needs to write a heist movie set in Spain where a key part of the plan is they steal something while La Liga is blocking some key security route.

egeresabout 1 hour ago
I wasn't able to pull some images and I lost 1h trying to diagnose network problems in my setup, but it didn't occur to me that "la liga" was the root cause . My workaround was to add "registry-mirrors": ["https://mirror.gcr.io"] in my /etc/docker/daemon.json
jcalvinowensabout 18 hours ago
This is the moral equivalent of shutting the water off for a whole city because one dude's house has a leak. The harms to society clearly and obviously outweigh any possible benefits to society. But if that one dude has the power to shut it all off, and doesn't care...
spwa4about 18 hours ago
If you think that's even remotely close to the worst the Spanish government has done, don't look up "Catalunya".

https://int.assemblea.cat/civil-and-human-rights-abuses/tool...

Ikatzaabout 12 hours ago
Just so everyone here has the full picture: the source linked — Assemblea Nacional Catalana — is not a human rights watchdog, an international observer, or a journalistic outlet. It is the main pro-independence criminal activist organization in Catalonia. Citing them as evidence of Spanish human rights abuses is a bit like citing the murderer's wife as an impartial witness.

For context, Spain is a full constitutional democracy, subject to the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights, with a free(ish) press, independent judiciary, and regular elections — none of which Assemblea itself disputes, because it participates in all of them. The events OP is referencing (the 2017 independence referendum aftermath) were reviewed by European courts, and the outcomes were, shall we say, not quite the narrative Assemblea sells on its website.

If there are genuine, documented human rights concerns, I'd welcome impartial sources from the Supreme Court or the ECHR.

What I'd push back on is treating a political lobby's own press releases as neutral reporting. You should do better than that here, OP.

hgghabout 2 hours ago
spwa4about 4 hours ago
Or to put it another way: Catalunya (Barcelona and surroundings) is one of 3 Spanish regions that want to break away from Spain, not counting overseas territories. And yes, the population really wants this: there was a referendum and the outcome was: 92% want out of Spain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Catalan_independence_refe...

(why? Let's be honest: Catalunya would benefit enormously from independence, but when the economy goes well, as it did from 2001-2007, they're fine. After that the situation worsened again. The situation is simple: Catalunya has a much better economy than Spain and could maintain government spending, whereas being part of Spain, they need to cut social spending)

The Spanish government has violently repressed this, attacked the people, arrested politicians, tried to threaten other EU nations with invasion (yes, seriously, the current government has a few "rough edges", even if I would agree if someone said that any other party would be worse) unless they arrest Catalunya politicians (then did nothing when they told them to go f themselves), and this mostly with the agreement of regular Spaniards.

Given what is happening in the EU (10+ years of slowly but unrelentingly worsening economy) the situation is slowly worsening again.

christkv5 minutes ago
Companies should start suing La Liga for danaged please
panstromekabout 3 hours ago
Yea, when there's a match, our app stops playing videos in Spain and we get some bad reviews. It's pretty annoying.
jeroenhdabout 2 hours ago
At some point apps should just start pointing the finger at the cause of these problems. Linking users with Spanish IPs to a page explaining soccer internet censorship won't stop the bad reviews entirely but at least it'll be more useful than doing nothing.
Self-Perfectionabout 11 hours ago
This is far from the first time that I see on HN indignation on LaLiga blockings. Sadly all this rage does not seem to lead to any change.

I'd like to suggest some steps that might/should be followed, which I will not pursue personally but in my defense - I do not live in Spain and not affected.

1) (first! low-effort) Somebody should create any space on the internet, where such anecdotes might shared and probably people with common goals of fixing internet access in Spain will meet. E.g. telegram group, discord channel, subreddit...

2) probably create wiki with related research: legal framework and possible actions etc

3) Raise public awareness. Create a resource/website with schedule of past and future "semi-blackouts", simple explanation of possible effects a layman may notice etc

4) Explore legal actions that might be taken. How this issue might be forced to be discussed by politicians? For instance I know that Portugal has official mechanism to put forward petitions, that will be discussed in parliament if get enough votes [1]

Space of possible demands in such petitions is vast. For instance:

- Make LaLiga compensate partly price of internet access

- Force LaLiga to include education notice in the beginning and the of translation with title like "Start of reduced internet connectivity" / "End of reduced internet connectivity"

[1] https://participacao.parlamento.pt/initiatives/

redbellabout 11 hours ago
This behavior of blocking some domains and IP ranges during LaLiga games has become a routine by now. You might also want to check these similar submissions:

My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45358433

Spain’s LaLiga has blocked access to freedom.gov: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47114235

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rmonvferabout 13 hours ago
As a Spaniard, this also happens to me. You can either use a VPN or just switch DNS servers to one that doesn’t have anycast nodes in Spain.

Cloudflare’s authoritative DNS uses EDNS Client Subnet (ECS) to return different IP pools based on where the query originates. Spanish resolvers get IPs from a range that La Liga blocks. If your recursive resolver is physically outside Spain (or you use DoH/DoT to tunnel to one), Cloudflare returns a different, unblocked pool.

AdGuard DNS works well for this.

torben-friisabout 18 hours ago
As a Spaniard, I would be very happy it cloudflare stops serving Spain. The situation is beyond stupid and I know without international pressure and shaming we're not getting rid of this abuse.
littlecranky67about 18 hours ago
They should at least do a single "awareness day" during which they block the same IPs and sites they are ordered by court, as if there was a football match on. Ideally with a 7 days public notice announcement. Probably won't happen though, as their contractual obligation won't allow for voluntary suspension of services.
pier25about 17 hours ago
As a Spaniard I couldn't agree more. This situation is just absolutely ridiculous.
schnitzelstoatabout 1 hour ago
The government really needs to step in, it's surprising that the PSOE and Sumar have allowed private companies to block so much of the internet.
samgranieriabout 14 hours ago
This is inexcusable. Just because sports right holders are worried about piracy doesn’t give them license to break normal internet operations. Spain, get your act together and put your equivalent of the content cartel in the penalty box.
pjc50about 20 hours ago
This is why technology businesses and professionals need to take a little bit of an active role in local politics. Otherwise you get nonsense.
dabinatabout 10 hours ago
We also need more tech-savvy politicians in office. There are a lot of politicians who are expected to legislate on important technology issues that barely know how to use a cellphone.
otabdeveloper4about 3 hours ago
Probably not, the tech-savvy politicians know about things like "DPI" and "traffic signatures".
DocTomoeabout 19 hours ago
That's an interesting euphenism for 'spend a massive amount of money on ~~corruption~~ lobbying',
lentil_soupabout 19 hours ago
not necesarilly, any government will make decisions, if there's no one to speak up and inform them why the decision is stupid, like the one from LaLiga, then we end up in this situation
afh1about 18 hours ago
This is incredibly naive.
swiftcoderabout 16 hours ago
Hah. I have had to use a US-based VPN to access GitHub pretty much every weekend lately. La Liga's efforts to curb pirate TV streams are basically undermining the internet itself at this point.

This is also not new behaviour - Theo posted a YouTube about it nearly a year ago[1].

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-geGEYEw7g

Self-Perfectionabout 11 hours ago
[Meta comment]

Humankind is not doing well with implementing new policies. We should really strive for each new policy (like in this case - blocking access to some parts of internet during soccer games):

- Consider running policy in small scale scenario (e.g. testing blocking in small parts of Spain before whole country rollout)

- Implement channels to gather info from those who are faced with results of policy implementation (in this case: the op got webpage with description why the page is blocked - a bit of sanity! It would be better if it was served with HTTP code 451)

- Policy instructions

- When deciding on policy put a date at which policy should be reconsidered and revised using data collected during the time when it was in effect

- ... and some more I have not thought about.

Let's strive to cultivate this principles in all life areas where we can affect how new policies are implemented.

(edit: linebreaks)

yangm97about 18 hours ago
Maybe it’s time to reflect upon the reliance on centralized services? Not long ago docker hub started rate limiting access and we all turned to blanket solutions like the GitLab registry cache. I wonder if the IPFS distributed docker registry thing still exists/works.
tabwidthabout 12 hours ago
This isn't really about centralization. ISPs are blocking at the IP level, not Docker Hub specifically. You could self-host a registry behind Cloudflare and still run into the same thing.
yangm97about 3 hours ago
Self-hosting a registry is objectively “less bad” than relying entirely on docker hub but, unless all your Dockerfiles start with `FROM scratch` you’ll still need access to Docker Hub to pull the base images and their updates, and that’s true regardless of how many people are running their own registries. If instead of relying on a centralized registry, which just so happens to also depend on a centralized CDN, you could instead pull images using something like IPFS or even torrent, not only ISP IP banlists wouldn’t be an issue but you would also eliminate a whole bunch of failure modes from the system.
rrr_oh_manabout 7 hours ago
"Behind Cloudflare" is the centralisation part
pfortunyabout 17 hours ago
> instado por la Liga Nacional de Fútbol Profesional y por Telefónica Audiovisual Digital,

(The trial was initiated by LaLiga and Telefonica...).

"Telefonica" is the (exclusive) distributor for the rights of streaming the matches, and is only (of course?) the main consumer (and business) Telco in Spain: they are in a game they cannot lose. This is such an abuse and no government (this, past, whichever) has done anything about it.

swiftcoderabout 15 hours ago
It is also educational to look up the overlap between Telefonica directors, LaLiga directors, and the government officials who granted the defacto monopoly
gchamonliveabout 18 hours ago
Here in Brazil sometimes my ISP goes into a weird state where I can't SSH into a remote machune. Got two ISP links here and still sometimes I need to resort to Mullvad to get stable internet
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ordersofmagabout 17 hours ago
Interesting alternative. Cloudflare (market cap $58B) buys La liga (market value $5 billion), drops suit.
manquerabout 11 hours ago
Real Madrid alone is more than $5B ? Maybe you mean to say league association is worth 5B ? That seems too high the association does not have lot of margins they pass through most of their revenue to the clubs .

The last domestic TV deal they signed recently was worth $6B for 5 seasons or so, which is what you are proposing they buy.

In enterprise value terms that $1B/year growing 6 %YoY is worth a lot more than $5B.

In contrast Cloudflare has a $2.5B revenue albeit growing much faster but also has much smaller earnings or free cash flow, I.e. money they are not spending to make their current revenue.

hunterpayneabout 10 hours ago
Here are RMs financials...https://www.realmadrid.com/en-US/news/club/latest-news/notic...

They make about $25m a year in profit. Cloudflair actually looses a small amount of money on 2.5x the revenue. However, Cloudflairs market cap is about 100x that of RM's and that's because they have a growing business, in a growing industry and can easily become profitable when needed. That's probably not possible for RM and their very pricey lineup of players.

manquerabout 9 hours ago
It is not the comparison to make, which is why I focused on the league’s tv revenue which is what is relevant , i only bought up Madrid’s valuation to ask where is Laliga ‘s $5B coming from.

Real Madrid owns the Bernabeu a valuable piece of real estate in the heart of Madrid and many other assets the Real Madrid brand is very monetizable .

Sports team have been consistently growing businesses in every major sport in both Europe and US. Comparing a sports team and SaaS company is hardly going to be apples to apples with different asset , revenue, brand and monopoly and strategic profiles.

——

The risk to the league due to piracy is the value of the television deal. The buyer paying $1B/yr (DAZN) is the reason for this enforcement.

If Cloudflare wants to buy this problem away that is what they need — The $1B deal growing 5-6% YoY and get into the streaming business .

Prime alone is expected to spend $4B on live sports rights this year. It is very expensive space with everyone from Apple to Google and Netflix to sovereign funds going deeper every year .

The streaming revenues otherwise aren’t expected to be massively grow so this is the content play that is least risk - compared to investing in say 4-5 blockbuster movies or tv series this is far more predictable and consistent revenue stream.

msully4321about 13 hours ago
I'm not sure where that number comes from but I don't think it's right, and I don't think that's how La Liga is structured anyway. It's governed by an association of all of the teams in the top two flights of spanish football.
ordersofmagabout 9 hours ago
Right. The number is the result of Claude adding up the public information about the aggregate value of all those clubs plus the association. So it would mean buying all the clubs; or at least enough to have a controlling interest in the association. Clearly there are big challenges to that (e.g. clubs not being for sale for one). But I thought it was an interesting thought experiment. Of course if you're just trying to play the money = power card then it'd probably be cheaper to purchase the influence of some government officials.
duckmysickabout 3 hours ago
Did Claude point out that under this proposal the Spanish clubs would be bared from entering European competitions? Since the clubs under the same ownership (more than 30%) can't enter the same UEFA club competitions.
lokarabout 16 hours ago
Set an example. Buy them, fire everyone, shut it down and liquidate the property.
outside2344about 16 hours ago
Less headaches, free futbol matches!
snickererabout 1 hour ago
The Internet was originally designed to survive a nuclear war. Now we downgraded it deliberately to not survive a football game.

Decentralised infrastructure: good

Centralised infrastructure: bad

Good and bad for you, of course. For the big companies selling and controlling this stuff, it's vice versa.

Just stay alert and don't chain yourself with big tech dependencies. The reason Git is great is its decentralised nature. If you got so far, why cripple yourself by running your traffic through a single American company like Cloudflare?

amarantabout 16 hours ago
I had to Google why this happens, blocking cloudflare during football games seems.. Arbitrary, to say the least. Maybe something to do with hooligans trashing entire cities when their team loses? I could almost get behind that, if I thought it would work..

But no, it's apparently to stop piracy!? Turning off half the internet, and mostly the legitimate parts at that (since when do pirates use cloudflare?) seems like probably the worst method to go about it.

Someone ought to start streaming those games illegally without using cloudflare just to demonstrate how stupid this policy is

swiftcoderabout 15 hours ago
> Someone ought to start streaming those games illegally without using cloudflare just to demonstrate how stupid this policy is

Oh, the icing on the cake is that they already do. While my whole dev stack gets shut off every weekend, my neighbour watches pirate futbol streams just fine - not only is it a stupid policy, it's an ineffective one, and the pirates bypassed the bans ages ago

amarantabout 15 hours ago
Makes you wonder why they keep the ban up? Are more people watching more football now that everything else stops working during matches?

Talk about unfair business practices!

HDThoreaunabout 15 hours ago
Pirates use cloudflare because it solves their biggest problem, DOS attacks. Rights owners figured out that they can shut down these sites by DDOSing them which bypasses the courts and can be done instantly, so the pirates put their sites behind cloudflare ddos protection.
Parodperabout 1 hour ago
According to the court, the real reason is because ECH would make it impossible to block through DPI.
Kamshakabout 17 hours ago
I'm in Spain as well and it sucks a lot. What I do now is I go thorough Cloudflare 1.1.1.1 VPN (set up on my router). Fixes the issue and there is practically no latency or bandwidth impact.
baobabKoodaaabout 12 hours ago
You mean 1.1.1.1. DNS? Or do they also serve a VPN through that IP?
Kamshakabout 2 hours ago
They also have a wireguard VPN service called 1.1.1.1 (with WARP). My understanding is you basically VPN into a cloudflare datacenter so you don't have issues with cloudflare IPs being blocked
drnick1about 9 hours ago
It's probably just DNS (port 53). It's the way Europeans tend to implement their censorship, with the ISPs as executors. It's trivial to bypass, but most non-technical users don't know how, so it's good enough to comply.
znnajdlaabout 2 hours ago
How timely. I was just moving off Github to self-hosted docker registries.
TiredOfLifeabout 2 hours ago
Bad bot.
Chrisszzabout 14 hours ago
LOL this is so hilarious, blocking a portion of a web infra for a football match
sva_about 14 hours ago
It is somewhat funny until you realize the amount of power some copyright mafia knuckleheads have over the (local) internet.

It isn't even an authoritative regime censoring something, but much more silly.

dlahodaabout 7 hours ago
Just use Nix.

1. If nix fails to pull anything, it builds (up to and including Linux kernel and compiler).

2. Nix has several ways to build OCI images, some even faster to assemble and slimmer output of official Docker tooling.

3. It is allowed several providers for same artefact to resolve pull.

TheDongabout 7 hours ago
> 1. If nix fails to pull anything, it builds (up to and including Linux kernel and compiler).

If nix fails to pull things from its binary cache, it will download the "sources" of the derivations, which are hosted in various places and so it's even more likely an overly broad block impacts one of them.

This football block very well could also cover GitHub, cdn.kernel.org, and so on, so nix building things could fail just as easily.

The solution isn't to use something else which can download source code from 100s of sites across the internet to compile as a fallback, it's to not use internet which sporadically blocks sites hosting developer assets.

The solution is not technical, it's political.

dlahodaabout 7 hours ago
1. We are more on OCI images? Assuming source available, run nix build and docker load of result.

2. Even if kernel.org or GitHub.com will be blocked, it likely than not it already was cached by nixos org cache or community cache or cachix or by your CI or by you workstation.

krickabout 6 hours ago
Is it exclusively football or do they try to fight piracy this way for some other major streaming events? I am just curious, because it's just comical to go this far over some dumb ball-game.
sammy2255about 4 hours ago
It's just football. Once the game is over they revert the block
vaylianabout 21 hours ago
This is a know issue and it is completely fucked up: https://www.techradar.com/vpn/vpn-privacy-security/cloudflar...

What Spain does is basically censorship and it's very poorly executed. The docker image registry is only one out of the many collateral victims of this stupid law.

embedding-shapeabout 18 hours ago
> What Spain does is basically censorship and it's very poorly executed

Basically? It is censorship, with huge collateral damage and regardless of how much we complain or share evidence that the blocks are actually financially harming us, no one seems to care as long as La Liga gets to freely block whatever hoster of websites as they wish.

ryandrakeabout 17 hours ago
It's just like the Great Firewall of China, except in service of football profits instead of political ideology. I don't know which one is dumber and more disgraceful.
embedding-shapeabout 17 hours ago
I wouldn't say "instead of", just "also", these "football blocks" are not the first cases of censorship of the internet in Spain.

womenonweb.org for example was inaccessible for years, just unblocked some years ago. During the latest Catalan independence referendum, the Spanish government blocked a bunch of websites, not the very least the official website of the referendum itself.

This is just one of the most recent cases, and so far the one with widest regular impact.

Jareabout 19 hours ago
It's a disgrace, but apparently all relevant forces still consider soccer the most important thing in the country.
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postepowanieadmabout 16 hours ago
Why are you working instead of watching the match?
userbinatorabout 13 hours ago
That's what crossed my mind too: It's like a nationally-mandated break to watch football.
aftbitabout 13 hours ago
What's the current state of the art for VPN'ing through deep packet inspection firewalls? I have imagined building something around TLS and Websockets that connects to a popular cloud provider which is "too big to block". Of course, if they'll block Cloudflare, or all connections outside of the country, maybe _nothing_ is too big to block. I remember some solutions to this in the 2010s, like obfsproxy and shadowsocks, but are there any newer or better options?
giorgiozabout 18 hours ago
POSSIBLE FIX:

I think changing your default DNS servers to Google 8.8.8.8 or Cloudflare 1.1.1.1 might bypass the spanish sunday ban on Cloudlflare.

macOS + Cloudlfare 1.1.1.1 https://developers.cloudflare.com/1.1.1.1/setup/macos/

Google 8.8.8.8 https://developers.google.com/speed/public-dns/docs/using

echoangleabout 17 hours ago
I don’t think it’s a DNS ban, it looks like they actually ban connections to the IP range.

But you can just use a VPN.

LtdJorgeabout 17 hours ago
Nope, it’s IP ban. At least for Vodafone and Telefónica.
zeafoamrunabout 12 hours ago
I don't even like televised sport but this makes me want to figure out how to pirate it at scale
jesuslopabout 16 hours ago
Just to confirm it is true. This is LaLiga bringing down essential country-wide infrastructure on soccer hours if your internet access is through main ISPs.
rcarmoabout 14 hours ago
Ah, so that's why my site is "down" there:

https://hayahora.futbol/#sobre-los-bloqueos&domain=taoofmac....

They're blocking the CDN too, not just R2.

Robdel12about 9 hours ago
How is this cloudflares problem? This is on LaLiga.
danpalmerabout 9 hours ago
It might not be Cloudflare's fault, but it is their problem. If their customers can't use their products sporadically, it doesn't really matter why. Cloudflare taking a principled approach hurts their users in the short term, so they have to make a business trade-off between pragmatism and principle. Currently they're choosing principle, so it's reasonable to be angry at them for the short term issues that causes.
sschuellerabout 1 hour ago
Just wait until a bank moves their 2FA to CF...

Netblock do not work and will never work.

sigioabout 21 hours ago
Time to use a VPN in your docker pipelines ;) Or run your systems outside of Spain.

Or can this be avoided by using an alternate DNS?

darkwaterabout 21 hours ago
They are planning to also block VPN providers during football matches, see https://www.techradar.com/vpn/vpn-privacy-security/la-liga-w...
Mordisquitosabout 20 hours ago
They are not "planning" to block VPNs. A technologically illiterate judge has ordered it, but there are no plans nor mechanisms to enforce it.
darkwaterabout 20 hours ago
The exact same stupid mechanism they are already using. Forcing ISPs to blackhole whole subnets if they belong to the VPN provider ASN(s).
chrismustcodeabout 20 hours ago
If they can block IPs of cloudflare what extra mechanisms would be needed to block VPN IPs?
prmoustacheabout 20 hours ago
When talking about VPNs, it doesn't have to mean "third party VPN". You can host your own on any VPN service outside of Spain.
darkwaterabout 20 hours ago
Yes, but that's not something many can do easily. Also already having to use a VPN is not the "right" solution. The right so solution is to beat some sense inside some politician's head, and force them to write and approve laws that don't let stupid (or conniving) judges pass orders like this one we are talking about.
ufociaabout 20 hours ago
"A _Sanish_ Court has ordered NordVPN and Proton VPN to block IPs transmitting illegal football streams" [emphasis added], that is inspain.
skgsergioabout 20 hours ago
Alternate DNS doesn't help, they block at IP level.

Yes, they block IPs belonging to CDNs (CF including R2, BunnyCDN, CDN77, Fastly, Alibaba, Akamai even)...

gredabout 16 hours ago
> run your systems outside of Spain

So much for digital sovereignty :-)

littlecranky67about 19 hours ago
It is not a DNS based block, but on the IP level. Once I knew what caused the issue, I figured I use one of my Hetzner vServers as an exit node in tailscale.

But come on, this can't be true. I wonder how many other people in IT wasted hours on issues and tickets to find out it is due to a football match taking place. Admittedly, chances are low, as football matches are usually outside of office hours.

ethinabout 8 hours ago
This is exactly why random corporations need to be gone from government. Or copyright needs to be abolished, one of the two. No corporation (no matter how beloved) should ever have this kind of power. IMO the more powerful an organization becomes, the deeper the scrutiny should be.
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lloydatkinsonabout 2 hours ago
Probably the only even slightly relevant thread I’ll ever find for this so here goes. There is a certain visitor in the “Madrid Autonomous Community” (whatever that is) which frequently requests just my homepage, no other page on my site, over and over again.

It comes in waves, and it’s not enough to affect anything, but it’s very weird because when I did some digging by looking at the ASN there was actually only one active IP address and if I browse to it I get someone’s Synology NAS login page.

Why would someone setup their NAS to randomly keep pinging my homepage?

archon810about 11 hours ago
I found out about this a month ago when a confused Spanish user showed me all downloads on https://apkmirror.com (powered by Cloudflare R2) are blocked in Spain during LaLiga soccer matches https://x.com/i/status/2030361569691898237. It was so idiotic, I couldn't believe it. Glad it's getting more attention now.
maxlinabout 3 hours ago
sportsball more importanter than your nerd stuff.

regards: spanish authorities (who are watching the sportsball and so are better spaniards than you!)

Dibby053about 17 hours ago
Going to play devil's advocate here but I suspect if Cloudflare had been more cooperative about taking down illegal content, LaLiga would not have resorted to blanket blocking individual IPs.

I would really like to understand more about the process that they should follow but didn't / followed but didn't satisfy them / doesn't exist, in order to remove infringing websites quickly from CloudFlare.

integralidabout 14 hours ago
I work with actually malicious content (things that make people lose their life savings) and Cloudflare abuse is relatively helpful (compared to most ISPs who just don't care).

They just refuse to take down random things that some media company representatives send their way, without a court order or any oversight. And this is a good thing.

Dibby053about 6 hours ago
Can you qualify "relatively helpful"? If you send them a ransomware site, a person looks at it, and still demand a court order... A company like them should know the scale at which these things are run, and that courts can't keep up with the speed.

>And this is a good thing.

Disagree. Demanding a court order for every single clear-cut case of infringement reported by the rightful owner of ephemeral content that is a infringed upon hundreds of times every day, causing nearly a billion dollar of losses per year... This is what the ISPs were trying to do and LaLiga successfully sued them, creating the modern fast-lane that CloudFlare complains about. Furthermore, unlike CloudFlare, the ISPs were not even profiting from the illegal content! This is a huge difference in the Spanish legal system. This will not end up good for them or for the open Internet they claim to defend (presumably as an excuse for taking their cut from cybercrime.)

JoshTriplettabout 5 hours ago
> for every single clear-cut case of infringement

Clear-cut by whose judgement? Surely not the plaintiff, who has demonstrated no care for collateral damage. Witness the many, many fraudulent DMCA takedowns that are regularly sent, for a demonstration of what happens when prospective plaintiffs are given a power of "guilty until proven innocent".

> causing nearly a billion dollar of losses

I thought we were long past people believing the funny-money fake numbers claiming every download is a lost sale.

JoshTriplettabout 15 hours ago
LaLiga wanted the right to tell Cloudflare to block specific sites without going through a court.

Cloudflare, rightfully, said that was ridiculous and unreasonable.

A Spanish court, wrongfully, decided to let LaLiga block all of Cloudflare.

Dibby053about 6 hours ago
I assume the problem is Cloudflare wants a court order that mentions the specific infringing domain name. The problem is: what's faster, spinning up a new frontend for a livestream or getting an order from a court?

Courts orders are, rightfully, slow. A court order is a serious thing and we shouldn't be wasting judges' time and resources to determine if hundreds of domains in CloudFlare, during every single match, are infringing on LaLiga. This is why the Spanish ISPs have a fast-lane with LaLiga to block infringing websites quickly. Why is it ridiculous and unreasonable? If LaLiga starts abusing this power to attack competitors or do anything malicious they will lose that power instantly.

Fastly understood the problem and will start running detection software to ban infringing livestreams in real time. https://www.laliga.com/en-GB/news/fastly-and-laliga-team-up-...

What's CF's solution?

JoshTriplettabout 6 hours ago
> If LaLiga starts abusing this power to attack competitors or do anything malicious they will lose that power instantly.

Because everything demonstrated so far has suggested that LaLiga is reasonable and measured? Courts exist for many reasons, among them that we do not trust plaintiffs to always be right or reasonable.

By way of demonstrating that such power is unacceptable, it sounds like LaLiga is also trying to get Spanish ISPs to block all VPNs whenever a game is on.

This is not an entity that can be trusted with power. This is an entity that rightfully should take its whining to a court who can keep its abuses in check. (Unfortunately, the Spanish courts also don't seem willing to keep its abuses in check, which brings us back to the collateral damage problem.)

> Fastly understood the problem

No, Fastly accepted the blackmail that Cloudflare refused.

lokarabout 16 hours ago
They will take down anything you get a judge to agree with.
jimaekabout 21 hours ago
Off topic but I wonder when Cloudflare is going to launch their own Docker registry as a product.
ImJasonHabout 20 hours ago
It's pretty easy to write your own. I made this one a while ago: https://github.com/chainguard-dev/crow-registry
ai_slop_haterabout 18 hours ago
jimaekabout 18 hours ago
I've seen it but it's buggy and lacking in features. Feels like an afterthought instead of a real product
wqtzabout 20 hours ago
Well, Cloudflare does not launch anything. They acquire to build products. Look into all their recent product launches. They acquired a relatively small company and converted the founding team to a product team.

So, if you want them to build stuff, ask yourself, are there any "Docker Registry" startups out there. If jsdelivr/globalping is not keeping you busy enough... there is an idea

a_t48about 11 hours ago
Yes, actually, there are. I've built https://clipper.dev. I'm somewhat focused on robotics/edge device use cases right now (handling large images in bandwidth constrained environments), but my storage costs are also 1/7th of DockerHub. It also enables device to device content sharing much easier than base Docker, will be much easier to do antivirus/vuln scans, some other side benefits.

If there's something you'd want out of a registry that you think the market would want, I'm all ears.

jimaekabout 19 hours ago
Honestly I would build it if I knew how to properly market it to quickly get users.

Globalping and jsDelivr took years to gain a meaningful user base

wqtzabout 19 hours ago
I do not think that is the issue. The recent acquisitions from all these big tech companies did not have any "meaningful" user base to begin with.

I think your name alone carries significant weight in the industry and you have built a very large community.

If you even vibe code something with, you will get a stupid amount of money thrown at you and a contract that bounds your existing projects and the next 3-5 years to a particular company as project lead.

Here is a list of acquisitions Cloudflare made recently: https://blog.cloudflare.com/tag/acquisitions/

Most of these companies did not have a half dozen paying customer or even a fully fleshed-out product before they were acquired.

a_t48about 11 hours ago
What would you build that would make it different/better than the existing registries out there?
vaylianabout 21 hours ago
What would the business case be?
jimaekabout 20 hours ago
Capture developers and funnel them to the Workers platform
LtdJorgeabout 17 hours ago
Thankfully, Adamo hasn’t implemented the blockade yet (if ever).
Magnetsabout 18 hours ago
BT used to block the entire streamable.com site during football matches
thomasjudgeabout 15 hours ago
Could you bypass this with a VPN?
tossandthrowabout 15 hours ago
Yes, and all of Spain is learning how to use VPNs
blurb4969about 16 hours ago
Welcome to the club, buddies! Here, in Russia, the government doesn't care about collateral damage at all when shutting down whole Internet in cities. They turn on white list mode, when only approved sites and IPs work. Businesses stop working and start losing money? They don't care. Important IT systems stop working? They don't care. People can't communicate with each other? Don't care. And seems like it will happen everywhere else. Sad to see the whole world goes down apart.
fc417fc802about 16 hours ago
I think perhaps there's a difference in expectations between wartime versus a country at peace going after pirates.
blurb4969about 15 hours ago
I wanted to say that Internet freedom dismantlement is a global trend.
fc417fc802about 15 hours ago
Fair enough, I completely agree. However in the case of Russia specifically, I understand that at one point Ukrainian drones were making routine use of mobile internet within the county. Temporary internet whitelists seem like a reasonable alternative to complete blackouts in that scenario. There are plenty of historic examples of malware using just about any communication platform for the C&C transport.
dmitrygrabout 17 hours ago
The last sentence of this submission makes no sense. You are in Spain. Allegedly, the country has a representative government. That means that you should have a way to influence the government to fix this idiocy. If, in fact, you don’t, then it is not a representative government and …ahem… further steps may be warranted to remind the government whom they work for.
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ahacheteabout 20 hours ago
Yeah, I know. Welcome to the club :(

https://x.com/ahachete/status/2035783292549755228

anthkabout 20 hours ago
CF could just sue LaLiga and the judge as interrupting and intercepting telecomms it's a really serious crime in Spain. Call the AEPD too because of consumers' right against both ISP and LaLiga's snooping. Another huge fine.

This is not an issue under the civil code (civilian issues), but something to be dealt under penal (criminal) code.

In Spanish

https://www.fiscal.es/memorias/memoria2020/FISCALIA_SITE/rec...

Oh, and BTW, LaLiga has just partnered with a CF rival.

Now CF can just sue both like hell because of unfair competition:

https://nitter.tiekoetter.com/xataka/status/2042658662850724...

quadrifoliateabout 20 hours ago
Looks like they already tried to appeal the block, and lost:

https://x.com/jaumepons/status/1904906677335245294

buzerabout 18 hours ago
They could potentially file the suit against Spain in European Court of Human Rights if they have exhausted national remedies. ECtHR has previously ruled some blocks to be illegal, but generally in the context where country sought the ban. Of course in both cases Court is the one that actually orders the ban.

One relevant would be Yildirim v. Turkey where court ordered blocking access to all Google sites because there was one that where someone insulted the memory of Atatürk. This was due to request from Telecommunications Directorate. This then caused the appellant's website to get blocked as well.

Another one would be Vladimir Kharitonov v. Russia.

prmoustacheabout 20 hours ago
I think they are doing it already.
anthkabout 20 hours ago
Yea, La Liga it's crapping out as always. Docker needs either some I2P gateway, or a Tor service.
fc417fc802about 15 hours ago
The pirate streams need an I2P service that way LaLiga might give up.
Myzel394about 17 hours ago
Just use a VPN
genericacctabout 13 hours ago
same thing happens in italy
mschuster91about 16 hours ago
Cloudflare could resolve this without negatively impacting fundamental services... just place all newly registered sites (e.g. <30 days) on a dedicated block of IP addresses. That way, Spain's government-ordered censorship could be limited to (mostly) pirate sites. Or they could invest money in vetting customers properly.

But of course, Cloudflare rather prefers to hold their actual large customers (who don't have much of an alternative to CF) and everyday Spaniard users hostage.

fc417fc802about 16 hours ago
What would prevent a pirate site operator from registering a domain a few months in advance and sitting on it in the meantime?

How do you propose customers ought to be vetted? Why should a host be expected to take on the duties of a hall monitor? Isn't that the judiciary's job?

I think it is actually Spain using their residents as hostages in an attempt to extort Cloudflare and other large providers. The current situation is best described as blatantly corrupt regulatory capture.

mschuster91about 13 hours ago
> What would prevent a pirate site operator from registering a domain a few months in advance and sitting on it in the meantime?

It's driving up the cost and expenses. Operators of legitimate sites don't have to worry during that probation time about anything with the exception of customers in Spain during LL match hours.

LL has ~10 matches / weekend (Fri/Sat/Sun/Mon), that means pirates have to have about 40 domains/CF integrations per month plus more in standby - and more, for longer probation periods.

> How do you propose customers ought to be vetted?

I dunno... stuff like basic KYC measures would be a good start. Copies of ID cards. Government business licenses. Private entities (credit bureaus). Even phone number verification is a serious hurdle for malicious actors, and it ties activities to real world identities that can be held accountable.

Dangerous stuff (e.g. streaming) could only be made available upon a security deposit.

> Why should a host be expected to take on the duties of a hall monitor? Isn't that the judiciary's job?

No, and that we let ISPs get away with ignoring abuse@ emails is part of why the Internet is such a nasty place these days. You need a license to drive a car on public roads, you need an expensive license to fly a small plane, and you need a goddamn massively expensive license to fly a widebody aircraft. So why shouldn't you need to pass some set of verification before you get access to inarguably the Internet's most powerful data pipes?

fc417fc802about 11 hours ago
> It's driving up the cost and expenses.

That's an interesting point. Are their margins so slim that they can't afford less than ~$50 per domain? I'm not familiar with their revenue model.

This is the sort of thing that could be done via the legislature if Spain were serious and playing by the rules. They could require ISPs to do DNS filtering based on domain age during matches. If they really wanted to do service level filtering they could require hosts such as CF to perform geoblocking in a similar manner during matches.

> Dangerous stuff (e.g. streaming) could only be made available upon a security deposit.

Let's set aside for a moment that I think this suggestion is completely absurd. Are these sites using some prepackaged streaming solution? Do you not realize that I can stream video from any machine using software I control? To an approximation the only thing required to scale streaming up to lots of customers is raw bandwidth. If you don't accommodate seeking you can potentially serve thousands of simultaneous streams with a single cheap VPS (in practice this won't work because a cheap VPS won't have a 100 Gbit pipe).

> So why shouldn't you need to pass some set of verification

Since when have you needed a license or verification to publish? You're acting as though a global impressum requirement is the natural state of affairs. Your demand is an affront to free society.

> we let ISPs get away with ignoring abuse@ emails

That seems like an entirely separate matter, if it's even true at all.

> No

Ah yes, a rousing argument. Obviously you must be correct.

You've failed to make a convincing case as to why deciding what is and isn't permissible isn't the job of the judiciary. If Spain wants to change that then they need to pass laws to that effect but in practice those won't have global reach. Thus they might (for example) engage in international lobbying efforts to incorporate a DMCA equivalent for illegal streaming into the global copyright regime.

Failing the above it is Spain that is in the wrong here and I'm happy to see that CF isn't going along with their overbearing and entirely unreasonable nonsense.

brepppabout 18 hours ago
Vote early, vote often
richwaterabout 20 hours ago
Spain is a failing country. Their economy is in shambles and the government has ceded internet control to a private corporation who runs football games.
gruezabout 19 hours ago
>Their economy is in shambles

But it's among the fastest growing in the EU? Granted, part of this is starting from a low base, but it's hardly "in shambles"

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.KD.ZG?locat...

nslsmabout 17 hours ago
They are doing this by artificially inflating the numbers, destroying the country forever: https://i.imgur.com/0MAeFaF.jpg
gruezabout 17 hours ago
>total population change in EU countries

The figures I cited are for GDP per capita, which accounts for population growth. Moreover immigration should have the opposite effect of depressing per-capita GDP, because immigrants typically take lower skilled jobs, dragging overall productivity down. So if anything, the figures are artificially depressed, not inflated.

embedding-shapeabout 18 hours ago
Spain isn't a perfect country, I don't think any is. But the economy isn't in shambles, only someone who doesn't know what they're talking about would say anything like that. It does suck that La Liga can wield so much power, agree, but this is not related to the economy at all...
hunterpayneabout 9 hours ago
Sorry, but this isn't true. The Spanish economy shrank by 8% in 2023. So all those gains in the last couple of years are just catching up to 2023 and not actual growth. Add in inflation and the average Spaniard has lost 10% of their income over that period (2023-now). The median citizen losing 10% of their income in real economic terms does qualify for the vaunted "shambles" title.
chrzabout 13 hours ago
Are you spanish and never went to another country? I only heard such things from never-stop complaining locals that never traveled anywhere. Yeah La Liga is a religion here, but Spain is one of the worlds top of life quality mate
schnitzelstoatabout 1 hour ago
The salaries and unemployment are pretty awful though. As are the working conditions in many jobs (jornada partida, paying less than legally required into social security etc.)

I think most people care more about these things than the GDP statistics tbh.

estebankabout 18 hours ago
To note that this isn't the executive or legislative but the judiciary doing the bidding.
lofaszvanittabout 18 hours ago
Good. Cloudflare is the next evil entity on the internet.
mathfailureabout 20 hours ago
Cloudflare is cancer. And the tumor is now too big.
Cpollabout 20 hours ago
You've got it backwards. Spain's ISPs are blocking Cloudflare and other CDNs because of LaLiga/football piracy. CloudFlare isn't doing anything here.
sphabout 20 hours ago
You are correct, but Cloudflare is still a cancer on the Internet.
petcatabout 20 hours ago
Rampant bot traffic and scrapers are the real cancer. Until that goes away everyone is going to need cloudflare or some other bot firewall service.
otterleyabout 18 hours ago
I know this is an unpopular opinion among freedom maximalists, but:

It’s precisely because CloudFlare isn’t responding like other CDNs to reasonable demands to cut off pirate origin sites that this mess exists. If they reacted quickly to remove configurations that are obviously facilitating copyright infringement, Spain wouldn’t resort to full scale ASN blocking.

How do we know it’s CloudFlare? Because other CDNs like CloudFront, Akamai, Fastly, etc. respond to takedown demands and aren’t being blocked. (Those also cost money and require customer identification.)

In an escalating war between the state and a corporation, the state will always prevail if they have the public’s backing. In Spain it’s clear that most people are happy to watch the match through legitimate channels even at the cost of blocking CloudFlare.

FireBeyondabout 16 hours ago
> It’s precisely because CloudFlare isn’t responding like other CDNs to reasonable demands to cut off pirate origin sites that this mess exists. If they reacted quickly to remove configurations that are obviously facilitating copyright infringement, Spain wouldn’t resort to full scale ASN blocking.

Apropos of anything else, CF is (reasonably) requiring a court order to remove offending material rather than just "well, company said so, so eh, just do as they say". La Liga complains that "oh, that's too slow for what we want" and just got a blanket ruling.

I am not a fan of CF but your argument seems to be "CF should just roll over any time someone says "hey, delete this", because, obviously, everyone knows it's problematic, right? Right?".

jbxntuehineohabout 19 hours ago
cf is failing to comply with Spanish law and as a result is being blocked in Spain
skgsergioabout 20 hours ago
I can agree on how much power on the global traffic they have, but this blocks affect many other CDNs like Fastly, Akamai, CDN77, BunnyCDN, Alibaba...
petcatabout 20 hours ago
Spain is mandating their ISPs block cloudflare to stop people from illegally streaming soccer games. Cloudflare isn't the one doing the blocking.
imcriticabout 1 hour ago
Isn't the ONLY one doing blocking.

I'm not from Spain and instead of Spanish ISP I get a block from CloudFlare.

Now take a wild guess: which one is bigger - some Spanish ISP or CF?

StrLghtabout 20 hours ago
You made a few typos in "LaLiga"
ufociaabout 20 hours ago
How so?
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