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Discussion (78 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
very concise way to nail the root cause of this problem. I dont think it is intentional. I am developing my own board game right now with my brother, currently playtesting with close friends with solid results, and due to growing up with video games I cannot tell you how often we have had to confront the urge to add a state tracker here or a system there or maybe if we use cards with stats on them then .. etc. because a lot of our love for games has been influenced by video games. We managed to overcome that and keep things fun and simple, but we also have the luxury of working on this over the past couple years in our spare time and not pressed to meet a deadline or other corporate constraints. By that I mean when we hit a wall that could be solved quickly by increasing the games complexity, we are able to step away for a while until a good idea hits us.
there is certainly some room to bridge the gap between video games and board games, to have systems the players dont need to learn but operate in the background while still enabling tabletop interaction - but i dont see how to do it on a budget, so maybe a future project. we need projector enabled coffee tables to get popular in general or something maybe
I gravitate towards games that have simpler rulesets with deep gameplay. I’m a big fan of Reiner Knizia but also Phil Walker-Harding and David Thompson.
- The trend towards videogame-ifying board games
- The trend towards "cozy" games, i.e. games that are not interactive, have no potential to produce negative emotions, and focus on a solitary optimization puzzle.
- The kickstarter-ification of games that focus on early release exclusives, excessive plastic, aesthetics over game design, etc.
I really urge players today to look at some of the games from the 90s to early 2000s if they're interested in getting into the hobby. Seek out some of the "classic" hobby games. Even some games predating that are fantastic, but you will also run into a lot of over-the-top simulationist war games during the 80s period.
Humor aside, you're not wrong - spending an hour setting up and then 10 minutes per player to actually play was a lot more fun when I had a lot more free time
The reason why is: everybody there has board game ADD! I've been coming for 2 years, but we never play the same game twice; someone always brings the Hot New Game of the moment.
But I find that the first playthough is the least-fun one. That's the one where you're trying to remember what the grey cubes do, and whether they're worth victory points or not. And the game takes twice as long as it says on the box, because everyone needs to reason out their strategy from scratch.
I wish that I could convince my group to pick some set of N games to focus on!
Since I added the rule about a decade ago, we've never once hit the 3 game limit. Just having the rule made them rethink if it was worth learning a new game or playing one we had a lot fun with already.
TIL this is an established term and not a joke term invented by a certain YouTube personality.
[Source: I've been designing games as a hobby for the last 10 years)
These days far too many board games are designed to appeal on Kickstarter with needless plastic minis and content. All that time and effort could have gone to play testing and improving the game but instead you get 2kg of plastic that doesn’t improve the game in anyway, increasing costs, and day one expansions or bonus content that’s often mediocre.
For every truely innovative game out there, there’s many more that look great and have incredible table presence but are throughly mediocre rehashes of the something else and rely purely on hype or great art.
Now you see people backing KS or buying 2nd hand games specifically for scalping, and Kickstarters preying on people with FOMO.
Also you can no longer trust Board Game Geek ratings.
The good news is, the vast majority of what’s really good, is probably already out there and available new or 2nd hand for a fair price.
Thanks to crowdfunding, there are deluxe editions of games all the time being announced for $400–500.
Games ship with "6 expansions in box" which sounds great and like a ton of replayable content, until you realize that they're poorly playtested, lack balance, and add a confounding (and sometimes contradictory) number of rules.
As you noted, games come with a ridiculous number of minis and trinkets and baubles that drive the price of new games well past $100 in many cases.
As the industry has gotten larger, many publishers are turning more toward bankable IP as opposed to innovative concepts. Or, they're releasing a bajillion reskins of the same game (looking at you, TtR, Azul, Pandemic, 7 Wonders, etc..) This is not unique to board games by any stretch. But it's a sign of an inflection point.
I'm not saying there aren't good games being released. I'm saying they're harder to find and getting drowned out by the shameless cash grabs and lazy IP-based games.
Go find some of the classics by Rosenberg, Knizia, Feld, Luciani, and others. You'll get a lot more bang for your buck.
Hot take: I have never played an expansion that I liked more than the base game.
I came back from last year with a few things but one of the hits was a physical area control game with just cards. The 2 play version is a pack of cards.
I think with the increased public interest in hobby board games, the pursuit of profit has lead to some really negative changes in the games that tend to get published.
How do people do it?
We were shocked by how early our kids could pick up board games, including many of the ones mentioned in this article. Our 2 oldest kids were playing Ticket to Ride and Carcassone well enough to beat us form time to time at 3 and 4 years old. Now that they're a little older, slightly more complicated games like Catan and Flamecraft are on the table!
There are lot of solo only games and most cooperative games allow for solo play. During the pandemic it became pretty popular.
I do a mix of solo, in person and online with boardgamearena.
We all met, and picked a day that was likely to work for us regularly, going forward - for us, it's a Tuesday. That way we know, and can plan ahead for the foreseeable future, that Tuesdays will be D&D nights. People with kids can get babysitters, or get spouses/grandparents to take care of them. People with other obligations can keep that night clear. Etc., etc.
I used to prefer the whole "let's schedule the next session at the end of the night", but that has 100% led to campaigns falling apart. Consistency is key.
(Also, it helps to have a big enough group - either for D&D or boardgames - that the absence of any one or even two people doesn't tank the night.)
Doing things virtually is also a good suggestion, but I'm pretty burnt out of staring at people's faces on a screen, so I hate playing D&D or other games over a screen - but your mileage may vary.
It's cooperative and has enough variety to keep it at exactly the right balance of fun/challenging.
Similarly, if you're looking for a wild 8 player game -> captain sonar. It sounds confusing until you start playing and then the light bulb goes on and you can't get enough.
It's a rare thing: a real-time board game. No turns!
Dune was basically the opposite you have an element of RNG from deckbuilding, you have multi-step planning and if someone else takes your move you have to recalibrate your plan, you can pull off crazy combos and hidden plans with intrigues.
I highly recommend Dune Imperium Uprising for engineers.
Would love if anyone can recommend any game of similar depth. We tried Arcs, root, and some others but couldn’t find anything similarly competitive and deep while not being one of those way too complicated games like twilight imperium or something.
If you’re pure euro gamers but need a bit more interaction maybe try Brass Birmingham, Food Chain Magnate, 1846, City of the Big Shoulders, Inis, Kemet.
It is also a fantastic 2 player game. My wife and I have played hundreds of matches and it was our go to game during the pandemic.
PSA: don't bother with the steam edition. It has been plagued with bugs and is honestly more infuriating to play as the bugs can be game breaking. And the bugs have been around for years.
I find it’s a great activity for people that aren’t that social. You get to participate in a group activity where your focus is on the game. Choosing the right game for the group is important though.
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balderdash
Online isn't as nice as in-person, but it sufficed.
D&D is mentioned as a board game, but you don't really need a board.
Maybe we should call them "tabletop games" instead, in which case I think card games should make it (bridge, for example, means reading both your partner and your opponent).
I'd love to try to host something like a poker night, but without the sour taste of gambling. Poker has lots of great qualities: people can drop in and drop out of, pick up quickly, not require so much focus that it precludes whitty bantz or idle side conversation. Are there some modern games that fit this shape?
* Skull: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/92415/skull
* Cockroach Poker: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/11971/cockroach-poker
* Flip 7: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/420087/flip-7
This has become one of my favorite low-key games. It has a great poker "feel" without being as complicated.
Trash sounds more derogatory than affectionate to me?!
although have to mention Diplomacy for its capacity to end relationships and practice war time negotiations and cheating is part of the game (IIRC it was a favorite of Kissinger and JFK)
My main problem with this is that if the other players are not in on this and just minimax, any such game becomes really boring.
Amazing line.
Power Grid: An ancient one. You compete to connect cities to your power network by buying resources on a market with a fixed replenishment cycle (so the book depletes as each player goes) and buying plants in auction.
Forbidden Stars: WH40k game. The interesting device in this game is that you commit to your actions ahead of time and others stack their actions on top of yours so yours will happen last but you can activate each map section available at your convenience. Combat with card draws and figurines.
Twilight Struggle: The US and the USSR struggle for control of the world. You play cards that represent various pivotal moments in history to give you influence in various parts of the world. You're allowed to coup and realign countries. Dice rolls are significant. An amusing self-confession is that I can't bring myself to play the USSRs. Nuclear Subs as a headline just makes me flush with pride https://twilightstrategy.com/2012/09/10/nuclear-subs/
I haven't played the latter two in recent times but ones I have played recently are:
Mahjong: An old classic. Trick taking with tiles. We most enjoy playing with the Chinese Official scoring rules https://web.archive.org/web/20250219225547/http://mahjong.wi...
But the Taiwanese style are easier to start with
Terraforming Mars: Tableau-building game (you have points based on the cards you've played) with an economy and map placement. I like the Venus and Colonies expansions. Best played with 3d printed parts to keep your nezos in place.
These are all great fun!
Curious what kind of games appeal to the HN mindset
For much more depth I recommend Dominant Species by GMT.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phutball
Race Track
http://ideaexplore.net/racetrack.pdf
There are a fre more great 'realistic' pen and paper games like Tennis.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennis_(paper-and-pencil_game)