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Analyzed from 1245 words in the discussion.

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#apple#more#something#don#pwas#closed#pwa#years#platform#ios

Discussion (39 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

Lerc•about 4 hours ago
TLA overload strikes again.

Reading this after a day of fighting microcontrollers made me interpret the headline quite differently.

Ignoring DMA requests and contradictory documentation sounded entirely on point.

Namidairo•about 4 hours ago
I too honestly thought that this was going to be a deep dive on the M-series PCIe controller or something similar.
1e1a•about 4 hours ago
I too was confused
rayiner•about 4 hours ago
Same here lol.
traspler•about 5 hours ago
I think it is a valid article but it tries very hard to ignore that it seems like at least 12 (21%) of the requests are currently in development at Apple. If all of them are medium/complex requests then they are all still within the advertised timeline. So yes, technically nothing was released yet but I read at least an implied suggestion that nothing will be, which does not look like a conclusion that can be drawn at the moment.
ptx•about 4 hours ago
On the other hand, the article does say that

"When the DMA took effect, it expected gatekeepers like Apple to deliver interoperability by default [...] Instead, Apple created a request-based system where each developer must seek permission for specific features"

and

"the process can stretch across months or years before developers see any practical benefit, even though the underlying right to interoperability is already supposed to exist"

tpmoney•about 3 hours ago

    the process can stretch across months or years before developers see any practical benefit, even though the underlying right to interoperability is already supposed to exist
Not that I don’t think Apple is being petulant and maliciously compliant, but just because a politician passes a law declaring something to be so doesn’t mean that it is so. Apple built their platform for years assuming a lot of these things are and would remain private. When you design private APIs and locked down features, you make different choices and design decisions than if you make open APIs. Any interoperability was going to take months or years to get to, no matter what.
u_sama•about 6 hours ago
Not surprised, I can't still install any app I want on an iPhone despite the DMA/DSA Acts pushing clearly in that direction
jeroenhd•about 3 hours ago
DMA/DSA are all about fair competition, not necessarily about user freedom. They tackle the inability to compete with the App Store, not the inability to manage your own apps.
nazgu1•about 5 hours ago
I wonder how it is that we, as the users, allow it when iOS started allowing third-party. After that we accepted that macOS is more and more closed platform. And I'm hearing constantly something like "Yes, that's wrong, but at least platform is secure". For me security is less about how much platform is closed and more about how educated users are.

On the side note that is interesting, that when first iOS version was released Apple talked that "PWA" will be the future, and nowadays Apple do everything to suppress PWA ;)

inetknght•about 4 hours ago
> I wonder how it is that we, as the users, allow it

It's not like we have a choice. Either allow it or... what? Buy a different computer? With what money? Spend time installing a new OS? With what time? And for most users: with what skills?

So long as businesses make choices about the devices you own, you don't really have a choice about "allowing" it to happen.

nothinkjustai•about 1 hour ago
What? Obviously we can purchase a different computer, install Linux, etc. Apple doesn’t have anything close to a monopoly market position. I buy Apple because I don’t care about customizing my device, I just want something reliable that works and has a good design. Don’t paternalise me by implying I don’t have a choice here.
Tepix•about 3 hours ago
> allow it when iOS started allowing third-party

Did you mean "allowing"? Or "prohibiting"

MaysonL•about 2 hours ago
First iPhone had no App Store: no third-party apps.
mastermage•about 5 hours ago
Security is not a fixed state, a closed system is not fundamentally more secure as the most vulnerable component is still within the system. The user.
shepherdjerred•about 2 hours ago
Closed systems are fundamentally more secure. Principle of least privilege demonstrates this
CharlesW•about 4 hours ago
> nowadays Apple do everything to suppress PWA ;)

Incorrect, see https://pwascore.com/ for a non-religious take. Nobody cares about PWAs, but that's not Apple's fault.

ImPostingOnHN•about 3 hours ago
"nobody cares about PWAs" says commenter in reply to post that seems to care about PWAs

also, I care about PWAs

glad we could make your day by introducing you to something new

I think if it were a viable option on an iphone, a nonzero number of people would choose the more privacy-preserving aspects of a PWA over installing a random app

CharlesW•about 2 hours ago
> also, I care about PWAs / glad we could make your day by introducing you to something new

As the creator of pwascore.com, I'm in your elite club of the teensy percentage of people who care about PWAs.

> I think if it were a viable option on an iphone¹, a nonzero number of people² would choose the more privacy-preserving aspects of a PWA over installing a random app

¹They are, and ²they don't. It'd be nice to blame this on HN's favorite boogeyman, but the reality is that (1) PWAs work fine today (pwa.com), (2) the tech industry is anti-PWA, (3) almost no consumers even know what PWAs are, and (4) consumers who do know also prefer "real" apps.

JustExAWS•30 minutes ago
This is completely illogical. There are a lot more dark pattern tracking that websites can do across websites than native apps without a user’s permission
dangus•about 3 hours ago
Is macOS more of a closed platform? What is more closed about it?

I totally agree that iOS is too closed down and I would say it’s part of an illegally operated duopoly, but macOS is pretty much the same as it has always been.

Apple objectively went out of their way to make sure you can install other operating systems on their silicon platform on Mac which they really didn’t have to do.

intothemild•about 4 hours ago
I wonder how much this will change now that Tim Apple, is out and John Apple is in. (probably none)
benoau•about 3 hours ago
The status quo is insanely profitable for Apple and Cook is still going to be "engaging with policymakers around the world" so I don't think they'll deviate from malicious compliance and stalling tactics any time soon.

The perjury, contempt and referral for criminal investigation in the US carried no consequence, Japan and Brazil's regulations have been undermined by massive fees, as has the EU but they're afraid to fine them because of Trump. Except for the possibility of a $38 billion fine in India this strategy has been very successful for Apple: it's 5 years since the US ruled developers could use third party payments, 3 years since the DMA came into effect, and nothing has changed.

qubex•about 2 hours ago
Oh the hoops I had to jump through to get UTM with JIT enabled on my 17 Pro Max with iOS 26…
benoau•about 1 hour ago
The article claims Apple said the OS doesn't control that feature lmao...

> But Apple rejected the request from the developer and said JIT for non-browser apps was not a feature controlled by iOS.

lostmsu•about 2 hours ago
Break it up
nothinkjustai•about 1 hour ago
Are people honestly surprised that companies being forced by the EU to give up parts of their competitive advantage would be maliciously compliant? That’s honestly baked into the regulatory system. Make better legislation next time LOL

I stand with Apple here :)

actionfromafar•about 6 hours ago
Is anyone surprised? I suppose Apple will care when a lot of money is extracted from their bank account.
Luker88•about 4 hours ago
It's not about being surprised, is about finally having proof and being able to go to the lawmakers with something concrete.

Apple could initially dismiss this as "doomsayers that talk about unreal future". Now this is proof.

Let's not dismiss this ourselves.

This is "I told you so", not "breaking news: nobody expected this!".

pjc50•about 6 hours ago
Disappointed but not surprised. Their intent is not to comply, so you'll have to sue them at every step for every atom of compliance.
anthk•about 5 hours ago
FSFE should top caring about Apple and giving awards to Microsoft and propietary software company supporters. Learn a thing or two from FSFLA and stop being a honeypot against libre software.
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zb3•about 3 hours ago
Apple will listen only when executives are physically put in jail.. Europe can't do this, and I don't see this happening in the US soon either.
benoau•about 2 hours ago
If blatant perjury didn't get anyone in jail nothing will...

> “The testimony of Mr. Roman, Vice President of Finance, was replete with misdirection and outright lies. He even went so far as to testify that Apple did not look at comparables to estimate the costs of alternative payment solutions that developers would need to procure to facilitate linked-out purchases.”

> …

> “Mr. Roman did not stop there, however. He also testified that up until January 16, 2024, Apple had no idea what fee it would impose on linked-out purchases:

> Q. And I take it that Apple decided to impose a 27 percent fee on linked purchases prior to January 16, 2024, correct?

> A. The decision was made that day.

> Q. It’s your testimony that up until January 16, 2024, Apple had no idea what fee it’s going to impose on linked purchases?

> A. That is correct.”

> “Another lie under oath: contemporaneous business documents reveal that on the contrary, the main components of Apple’s plan, including the 27% commission, were determined in July 2023.

> Neither Apple, nor its counsel, corrected the, now obvious, lies. They did not seek to withdraw the testimony or to have it stricken (although Apple did request that the Court strike other testimony). Thus, Apple will be held to have adopted the lies and misrepresentations to this Court.”

https://techcrunch.com/2025/05/01/read-the-juiciest-bits-fro...

podgietaru•about 3 hours ago
Or they start limiting sales of Apple Hardware. Not something I expect to happen either.