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#https#riemann#calculus#integral#integrable#derivative#com#lebesgue#analysis#everywhere

Discussion (55 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

EdwardDiego•about 3 hours ago
> This post introduces the Riemann integral

Sweet! I'm keen to learn about the basic fundamentals of calculus!

> For each subinterval ...(bunch of cool maths rendering I can't copy and paste because it's all comes out newline delimited on my clipboard) ... and let m<sub>k</sub> and M<sub>k</sub> denote the infimum and supremum of f on that subinterval...

Okay, guess it wasn't the kind of introduction I had assumed/hoped.

Very cool maths rendering though.

As someone who never passed high school or got a degree thanks to untreated ADHD, if anyone knows of an introduction to the basic fundamentals of calculus that a motivated but under educated maths gronk can grok, I would gratefully appreciate a link or ten.

ulrikrasmussen•about 2 hours ago
3Blue1Brown has an excellent video series that introduces calculus using very intuitive animations and explanations: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZHQObOWTQDMsr9K-rj53...
chadcmulligan•about 2 hours ago
If you dive into Analysis (the underlying theory behind calculus) this book - "How to Think About Analysis" by Lara Alcock is the book I wish I had when I studied it. Calculus by Spivak is the book I learnt from but it is probably not the easiest, it is very thorough though.
globalnode•about 1 hour ago
Table of contents look really helpful to understanding.
mr_mitm•about 3 hours ago
Yeah, judging by the terseness, this is clearly aimed at undergrads. Then again, this is covered in literally every calculus class, so I'm not sure who this is supposed to be for.
bmacho•about 1 hour ago
ChatGPT.

You can ask for a syllabus first, then go through it.

It's interactive, and it covers in detail everything you don't get. You can ask infinite many practice material, exercises, flashcards, or anything you want.

dnemmers•about 3 hours ago
chillax•about 3 hours ago
thaumasiotes•about 1 hour ago
> if anyone knows of an introduction to the basic fundamentals of calculus that a motivated but under educated maths gronk can grok, I would gratefully appreciate a link or ten.

"The basic fundamentals of calculus" usually go under the name "real analysis".

You have many options for studying it.

MIT OpenCourseWare: https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/18-100a-real-analysis-fall-2020/

Free calculus-through-nonstandard-analysis textbook: https://people.math.wisc.edu/~hkeisler/calc.html

Lean4 game implementing Alex Kontorovich's undergrad course: https://adam.math.hhu.de/#/g/alexkontorovich/realanalysisgam... (also includes videos of the course lectures)

I like the idea of the lean4 game, because if you do your work in lean you'll know whether you've made a mistake.

("Standard analysis" uses limiting behavior to ask what would happen if we were working with infinitely large or infinitesimally small values, even though of course we aren't really. "Nonstandard analysis" doesn't bother pretending and really uses infinitely large and infinitesimally small values. Other than the notational difference, they are the same, and a proof in one approach can be easily and mechanistically converted into the same proof in the other approach.)

Note that the ordinary course of study involves learning to do calculus problems first (in a "calculus" class), and studying the fundamentals second (in an "analysis" class). The textbook I linked is a "calculus" textbook, but there is a bit more focus on the theoretical backing because you can't rely on the student to learn about nonstandard analysis somewhere else.

Delphiza•about 3 hours ago
https://minireference.com/

"The No Bullshit Guide to Math and Physics"

ivansavz•about 2 hours ago
Thx for the plug @Delphiza

For anyone interested in checking out the book, there is a PDF preview here[1] and printable concept maps[2], which should be useful no matter which book you're reading.

[1] https://minireference.com/static/excerpts/noBSmathphys_v5_pr...

[2] https://minireference.com/static/conceptmaps/math_and_physic...

homeonthemtn•about 3 hours ago
dalvrosa•about 3 hours ago
Fair, sorry about that
globalnode•about 2 hours ago
Here's my understanding: 1: In the 'olden days' the area A(x) under the graph f(x) used to be approximated as a Riemann sum. 2: Using limits, as the delta x in the Riemann sum->0, we'd call that an integral and set it to be the exact area A(x). 3: If we then look at some small change in A(x), we might notice f(x) = A'(x)... mind blown. 4: since we can now say A is an anti-derivative of f, we have A(x)=F(x)+C (we have to add the C because the derivative of a constant is 0). 5: Using logic and geometry we have C=-F(a) which leads to... 6: The area under the graph f between [a,b] is A = F(b)-F(a). 7: We don't have to cry anymore about pages of Riemann sum calculations.
UltraSane•about 3 hours ago
I recommend Math Academy + Mathematica + YouTube + ChatGPT, Gemini, or Claude Opus and a LOT of motivation.
moi2388•about 3 hours ago
Khan academy
BlackFly•about 1 hour ago
> Let f ... be Riemann integrable and F ... differentiable.

What many people don't notice the first time they read this in the fundamental theorem of Calculus is that this is a double criteria. That f needs to be integrable seems like an extraneous point when F is differentiable. This holds also for the Lebesgue integral. The understanding is usually that if F is differentiable then its derivative is integrable, that is, people understand the integral as an anti-derivative but the Riemann/Lebesgue integral version of the fundamental theorem of calculus only proves that if the function you want the anti-derivative of is integrable, so you have this separate requirement to prove that f is integrable having already proven F to be differentiable (to f).

However, this theoretical (because if you aren't a mathematician you won't be bothered by this sticking point, you'll just insist that the integral is the anti-derivative when an anti-derivative exists) defect is ameliorated by the Henstock–Kurzweil integral which is (I feel) a lot easier to define and understand than the Lebesgue integral. It is practically the Riemann integral with just a minor tweak: the delta in the delta-epsilon proof is allowed to vary by location (essentially, as you approach non-integrable singularities, you tend the delta towards zero).

For the Henstock-Kurzweil integral, if F is differentiable then f is (Henstock-Kurzweil) integrable. This happens because not every derivative is Riemann or Lebesgue integrable, you need a stronger integral.

ghighi7878•about 1 hour ago
Henstock-Kurzweil is a neat teaching trick. Often also because it shows that definition of riemann integration is not the only possible one. It leads a good motivation for lebesque later but also to of importance of spaces.
mchinen•about 4 hours ago
I've studied the proofs before but there's still something mystical and unintuitive for me about the area under an entire curve being related to the derivative at only two points, especially for wobbly non monotonic functions.

I feel similar about the trace of a matrix being equal to the sum of eigenvalues.

Probably this means I should sit with it more until it is obvious, but I also kind of like this feeling.

ironSkillet•about 3 hours ago
It is not determined by the derivative, it's the antiderivative, as someone else mentioned. The derivative is the rate of change of a function. The "area under a curve" of the graph of a function measures how much the function is "accumulating", which is intuitively a sum of rates of change (taken to an infinitesimal limit).
sambapa•about 4 hours ago
You meant antiderivative?
emacdona•about 4 hours ago
> f is Riemann integrable iff it is bounded and continuous almost everywhere.

FWIW, I think this is the same as saying "iff it is bounded and has finite discontinuities". I like that characterization b/c it seems more precise than "almost everywhere", but I've heard both.

I mention that because when I read the first footnote, I thought this was a mistake:

> boundedness alone ensures the subinterval infima and suprema are finite.

But it wasn't. It does, in fact, insure that infima and suprema are finite. It just does NOT ensure that it is Riemann integrable (which, of course the last paragraph in the first section mentions).

Thanks for posting. This was a fun diversion down memory lane whilst having my morning coffee.

If anyone wants a rabbit hole to go down:

Think about why the Dirichlet function [1], which is bounded -- and therefore has upper and lower sums -- is not Riemann integrable (hint: its upper and lower sums don't converge. why?)

Then, if you want to keep going down the rabbit hole, learn how you _can_ integrate it (ie: how you _can_ assign a number to the area it bounds) [2]

[1] One of my favorite functions. It seems its purpose in life is to serve as a counter example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirichlet_function

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebesgue_integral

mjdv•about 4 hours ago
> FWIW, I think this is the same as saying "iff it is bounded and has finite discontinuities".

It is not: for example, the piece-wise constant function f: [0,1] -> [0,1] which starts at f(0) = 0, stays constant until suddenly f(1/2) = 1, until f(3/4) = 0, until f(7/8) = 1, etc. is Riemann integrable.

"Continuous almost everywhere" means that the set of its discontinuities has Lebesgue measure 0. Many infinite sets have Lebesgue measure 0, including all countable sets.

emacdona•about 4 hours ago
Ah, thanks for the clarification! Would it have been accurate then to have said:

"iff it is bounded and has countable discontinuities"?

Or, are there some uncountable sets which also have Lebesgue measure 0?

ironSkillet•about 3 hours ago
No that's not true either. A quick Google will reveal many examples, in particular the "Cantor set".
thaumasiotes•about 3 hours ago
The Cantor set is uncountable and has Lebesgue measure 0.
bandrami•about 4 hours ago
"Almost everywhere" is precisely defined, and it is broader than that. E.g. the real numbers are almost everywhere normal, but there are uncountably many non-normal numbers between any two normal reals.
jfarmer•about 4 hours ago
"Almost everywhere" means "everywhere except on a set of measure 0", in the Lebesgue measure sense.

Here's an example of a Riemann integrable function w/ infinitely many discontinuities: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomae%27s_function

Anyone interested in this should check out the Prologue to Lebesgue's 1901 paper: http://scratchpost.dreamhosters.com/math/Lebesgue_Integral.p...

It gives several reasons why we "knew" the Riemann integral wasn't capturing the full notion of integral / antiderivative

sambapa•about 4 hours ago
"almost everywhere" can mean the curve has countably infinite number of discontinuities
Jaxan•about 4 hours ago
“Almost everywhere” is a mathematical term and can mean two things (I think):

- except finitely many, or

- except a set of measure zero.

bikrampanda•about 5 hours ago
What is the font used on the site?
viscousviolin•about 4 hours ago
Today I learned there's a CSS property for styling the first letter of a paragraph, neat. (https://css-tricks.com/almanac/properties/i/initial-letter/)

--edit: The font used for those initials is called Goudy Initialen: https://www.dafont.com/goudy-initialen.font

emmelaich•about 4 hours ago
thaumasiotes•about 4 hours ago
crispyambulance•about 4 hours ago
That font, and how it's integrated with the math looks amazing. Katex for the math?
viscousviolin•about 4 hours ago
Seems like Katex from the scripts getting loaded. I love the design too, kinda medieval-chic.
eru•about 4 hours ago
Looks more early modern to me. :)
genezeta•about 4 hours ago
Alegreya
shmoil•about 3 hours ago
Good job, David. Have a lollipop. Now learn & write up the proof that the Henstock-Kurzweil integral integrates _every_ derivative. This is what we had in my calculus class on top of the outdated Riemann integral.