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#model#gemma#models#google#https#tokens#qwen#mtp#token#using

Discussion (120 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

WarmWash•about 2 hours ago
I don't see it talked about much, but Gemma (and gemini) use enormously less tokens per output than other models, while still staying within arms reach of top benchmark performance.

It's not uncommon to see a gemma vs qwen comparison, where qwen does a bit better, but spent 22 minutes on the task, while gemma aligned the buttons wrong, but only spent 4 minutes on the same prompt. So taken at face value, gemma is now under performing leading open models by 5-10%, but doing it in 1/10th the time.

rjh29•about 2 hours ago
Anecdotally the 15/month basic Gemini plan allows coding all day. I'm not hitting the limits or needing to upgrade to 100/month plans like other people are doing with Claude or Codex.

Caveat: Gemini has been dumbed down a few times over the last year. Rate limits tightened up too. So it might not be this good in the future.

lucb1e•1 minute ago
I don't know if people know this, but using it all day (say 8h) costs between 0.7 and about 14 kg of CO2 in the US, depending on which region's grid power they use (or, if they run off of generators, the gCO2e/kWh might be very different from these bounds). With 225 working days per year (assuming no night or weekend use), in the worst region that's 50% of the CO2 the average european person uses in a year, just for this assist function; in the best region (a few counties currently running on 100% hydropower) it makes no difference of course because the energy is running down the hill whether you use it or not. Maybe it could otherwise have been exported but there's only so much interconnect
Zarathruster•about 2 hours ago
Where are you using it? Is Gemini CLI at a usable state? It was a frustrating, miserable experience last time I gave it a shot.

Antigravity seems significantly better in comparison, but with lower usage limits. If I run out, I usually don't bother switching to Gemini CLI.

freedomben•about 1 hour ago
As long as you force it to use the pro model and not flash, it is pretty usable. If you go with the default settings though, it will use flash aggressively which results in pretty bad code. I only use it with pro exclusively now.

Even with pro, I have caught it going off the rails a few times. The most frustrating was when I asked it to do translations, and it decided there were too many to do so it wrote a python script that ran locally and used some terrible library to do literal translations, and some of them were downright offensive and sexual in nature. For translations though, Gemini is the best but you have to have it do a sentence or two at a time. If you provide the context around the text, it really knocks it out of the park

kissickas•11 minutes ago
I only see plans for $8, $20, and $250/month... which one are you using exactly?

https://gemini.google/subscriptions/

freedomben•about 2 hours ago
I got really burned by that quality reduction. I subscribed to the AI pro level, and was using it quite a bit, but I stopped because I had to be super attentive to the output because it would make simple mistakes. It was really a shame, because for a while they're Gemini was the best and the AI pro level would allow you enough usage to use it throughout the day as long as you weren't hammering it
kingleopold•about 1 hour ago
no 15/month does not enough all day? pls dont share wrong info, 3.1 pro CLI sometimes wait 20-30 min thinking sometimes, it's by far worse compared to others.It finishes with few hours of work mostly, but in openai they give you 6 times of that in 24 hours, gemini resets one time a day. It is literally lazy and so many times does half work. I'm a power user for all top models in top 3 AI companies, only Gemini 3.1 waits so long and it's so slow. Even Gemini pro 3 and pro 2.5 was not like this at all
kissickas•9 minutes ago
Which do you find best? I am using Claude Code but hit the 5-hour limits easily, and burn through the weekly allowance in 3-4 days... and I'm not even using it for work
threecheese•about 2 hours ago
Are you using their TUI, or just their APis in another harness?
Urahandystar•about 2 hours ago
True, but you have to add up the cumulative token output if your being fair. That alignment issue requires another set of input and output tokens to correct.
MengerSponge•about 2 hours ago
Does it? Or is this a centaur situation where a competent human can fix it in about two minutes?
zdw•about 4 hours ago
MTP support is being addedto llama.cpp, at least for the Qwen models ( https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/pull/20533) and I'd imagine Gemma 4 will come soon.

The performance uplift on local/self-hosted models in both quality and speed has been amazing in the last few months.

tarruda•about 3 hours ago
There is a newer PR which will probably be merged soon: https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/pull/22673
entropicdrifter•about 2 hours ago
Ollama merged a PR for MTP about 2 hours ago, as well:

https://github.com/ollama/ollama/pull/15980

Edit: Seems they also have a pre-release version out with the functionality added: https://github.com/ollama/ollama/releases/tag/v0.23.1-rc0

nzeid•about 1 hour ago
A few days ago I switched again from Qwen3.6 to Gemma 4 - for personal use I've experienced better average performance with the 26B version of the latter than the 27B of the former.

For someone who's been running local models for a long while, these are very very exciting times.

apexalpha•10 minutes ago
I’ve been swapping between these too as well.

However I find qwen unbeatable for toolcallling. I think gemma wasnt trained on that at all.

sigmoid10•5 minutes ago
Gemma certainly was trained for tool calling, but the implementation in llama.cpp has been troubled because Gemma uses a different chat template format. The processor from the transformers library works fine though.
fridder•15 minutes ago
I'd love to see this in oMLX too. It has been a rather nice tool
basch•about 2 hours ago
I have a dumb performance question.

Why when asking a model to change text in a minor way; are we not asking it to generate the operational transformations necessary to modify the text, and then just executing the ot on the existing text vs reproducing every token? Maybe tools are doing that more than I realize?

sigmoid10•11 minutes ago
The simple answer is: because it is not necessary to achieve the same final output. Most LLMs today are trained as autoregressive token predictors. They fundamentally can't work any other way. But we know how to train them really well and they have many applications beyond editing text. Diffusion LLMs exist too, which work a bit closer to what you describe, but they are not yet at the same level of intelligence since training methods are not that mature and they are generally less flexible as well.
basch•7 minutes ago
So predict the tokens of the operational transformation.
XYen0n•about 2 hours ago
The only thing a model can output is tokens; to achieve this, a tool of converting tokens into operational transformations is required. For example, I have an ast-grep skill, it will instruct the model to generate ast-grep rules and run ast-grep to perform file modifications.
basch•8 minutes ago
I am saying to directly output the operational transformation instructions as the tokens. You’re essentially telling it to “write the diff” and then applying the patch.
cryptoz•about 2 hours ago
This is the approach I take with code edits to existing files at Code+=AI; I wrote a blog post with a simple example of AST modification to illustrate: https://codeplusequalsai.com/static/blog/prompting_llms_to_m...
EGreg•about 3 hours ago
How does this get added in practice?
flakiness•about 3 hours ago
According to the linked PR, the original model does come with MTP which is another "head" (=output path) in the same model and (supposedly) runs faster.

The current implementation ignores that head but the PR let the tool recognize it, plus does proper integration (run the MTP while running the slower main path then compare the result, I believe.)

flebron•24 minutes ago
The standard way of doing MTP is to run the drafter autoregressively for k steps, and then (not concurrently) use the larger model as a verifier for those k tokens at the same time. The larger model can then accept a prefix of those k tokens, and in any case generates one more token (which is needed in case you accepted zero tokens from the drafter). The larger model can effectively use this k as a "batch" dimension, reducing the penalty of large weight loading. Meanwhile the drafter is much smaller, so it's fine for _it_ to be autoregressive, as long as the main model is parallel.
dakolli•about 4 hours ago
yet, still mostly useless.
WhitneyLand•about 3 hours ago
Yeah important conceptually to remember MTP is kind of just more weights, but speculative decoding is the runtime algorithm that’s a significant add to whatever code is serving the model.
HumanOstrich•about 3 hours ago
That is.. inaccurate.
msp26•about 2 hours ago
Google is singlehandedly carrying western open source models. Gemma 4 31B is fantastic.

However, it is a little painful to try to fit the best possible version into 24GB vram with vision + this drafter soon. My build doesn't support any more GPUs and I believe I would want another 4090 (overpriced) for best performance or otherwise just replace it altogether.

ActorNightly•about 2 hours ago
Qwen is still better that Gemma though. Also you can tune it more for different tasks, which means that you can prioritize thinking and accuracy versus inference speed.
SwellJoe•22 minutes ago
Qwen is better at some things (code, in particular), but Gemma has better prose and better vision. At least, it feels that way to me.
zobzu•6 minutes ago
gemma is also just way faster. i dont wanna wait 10min to get a 5-10% better answer (and sometimes, actually worse answer).

best is to use your own model router atm, depending on the task

redman25•5 minutes ago
It’s a heck of a lot faster too.
2ndorderthought•about 1 hour ago
Yes I would just go with qwen.
skybrian•about 3 hours ago
Watching the computer write text sort of reminds me of using a modem to call a BBS in the old days. This seems like going from 300 baud to 1200 - a significant improvement, but still pretty slow, and someday we will wonder how we put up with it.
macNchz•about 3 hours ago
This is something I've been thinking about for a while...the current state of things really does feel kind of like the dialup era, wondering what the "broadband" era could look like. Watching tokens stream in is reminiscent of watching a jpeg load a few rows of pixels at a time, and the various different loading and connecting animations that applications implemented before things got fast enough to make them less relevant.

Some of the work in that direction like Cerebras or Taalas have been doing is an interesting glimpse of what might be possible. In the meantime it's a fun thought experiment to wonder about what might be possible if even current state of the art models were available at like, a million tokens per second at a very low cost.

gavmor•18 minutes ago
Take a look at https://chatjimmy.ai/ -- it's running against Taalas' "hardcore" silicon model, ie a dedicated, ASIC-like chip.
garciasn•about 3 hours ago
You're right about it being reminiscent of the dial-up area, but I don't believe it's 300 to 1200; it's more like 4800:

Modem vs Claude according to Claude:

300 @ 2368 characters - 1m 19s

1200 @ 2368 characters - 19.7s

2400 @ 2368 characters - 9.9s

14.4K @ 2368 characters - 1.6s

33.6K @ 2368 characters - 705 ms

56K @ 2368 characters - 447 ms

Claude @ 2368 characters - 7.9s

jeffhuys•about 3 hours ago
Check chatjimmy.ai
lelandbatey•about 1 hour ago
https://chatjimmy.ai being a demo of the "burn the model to an ASIC" approach being sold by Taalas[0], an approach which they use to run Llama 3.1 8B at ~17000 tokens per second.

[0] - https://taalas.com/products/

MagicMoonlight•about 3 hours ago
There was a startup posted here which built custom hardware that let the AI respond instantly. Thousands of tokens per second.
tln•about 1 hour ago
Taalas. A sibling comment of yours posted the chat demo URL -

https://chatjimmy.ai/

2ndorderthought•about 1 hour ago
Woah. How is this working? It's stupid fast.
Grosvenor•about 1 hour ago
cerebras

They built an entire wafer ASIC. The entire thing is one huge active ASIC. it takes a lot of cool engineering and cooling to make it work, and is very cool.

zargon•about 2 hours ago
Groq.
beavisringdin•about 2 hours ago
No, it was a custom ASIC chip with weights baked in for a singular model. I do envision a future where we return to cartridges. Local AI is de facto and massively optimised chips are built to be plug and play running a single SoTA model.
aleksiy123•about 2 hours ago
I’m starting to think that googles strategy is a bit different then the other frontier providers.

Focusing more on performance to compute efficiency over pure performance. And maybe that’s why Gemini is (seemingly) lagging behind?

Other providers hitting capacity and hitting the limits subsidising their inference.

Google strategy seems to be about scaling and distributing these models to their existing billions of users.

leecommamichael•about 1 hour ago
Isn't that where everyone's strategy is shifting?
aleksiy123•7 minutes ago
Yes, but I think Google was playing that strategy from essentially day 1 or very early in this AI race, where as the others are there now because of their lack of access of compute.

The general narrative I would read on HN/others, was that Google would be able to outlast/outcompete OpenAI and Anthropic because Google had both more money and more compute. Playing the game of subsidizing their most capable models to capture market share longer than the VCs could.

But instead I feel like Google opted out of that much earlier. Shifting their focus on efficiency and scaling much much earlier. Flash and Gemma being where Google was actually ahead of the competition while everyone was focused on bigger.

My personal opinion was this was necessary because integrating AI into products like AI overview, search meant scaling to billions of users was a requirement right out of the gate. And theres not enough money/compute no matter who you are to use frontier models for that.

christina97•about 3 hours ago
I recently set up the 26B A4B model up on vLLM on an RTX3090 (4-bit) after a hiatus from local models. Just completely blown away by the speed and quality you can get now for sub-$1k investment.

I tried first with Qwen but it was unstable and had ridiculously long thinning traces!

aimxhaisse•32 minutes ago
It even fits on a 3060 with turboquant / Q4 at decent speed (40T/s) for ~200$ (:
2ndorderthought•about 1 hour ago
Some of the early quants for qwen3.6 were broken. It's still finicky but with a little hand holding it's crazy.

Local models are the future it's awesome

jszymborski•about 3 hours ago
The A4B model is blazing fast and the model is super good at general inquiries. Notably worse than Qwen 3.6 for coding tasks but that says more about the Qwen model.
julianlam•about 3 hours ago
Really excited to try this once it is merged into llama.cpp.

Gemma 4 26B-A4B is much quicker on my setup vs Qwen3.6-35B-A3B (by about 3x), so the thought of a 1.5 speedup is tantalizing.

Have tried draft models to limited success (the smaller 3B draft model in addition to a dense 14B Ministral model introduced too much overhead already)

VHRanger•about 2 hours ago
On vllm with a 5090 I get 120-180TPS with the awq 4 bit quant + MTP speculative decoding

For gemma4 26B, same quantization, I get >200TPS.

Also note that qwen is extremely inefficient in reasoning; the reasoning chains are ~3x longer than gemma on average

regexorcist•about 2 hours ago
Sounds like a game changer if I see that kind of speed up on my hardware. So far I've prefered Qwen 3.6 because of its better tool handling, even though Gemma 4 is faster, but I saw they've updated the model template and that's supposed to be better now. Looking forward to trying this with llama.cpp.
ch_sm•about 1 hour ago
gemma4 has a specific problem with toolcalls that affects most runtimes. fixes for ollama and vllm are being worked on right now
apexalpha•7 minutes ago
I read somewhere you need to drop temp to 0.1 on gemma for tools.

Not sure why (too amateur sorry).

Though I think qwen was natively trained on toolcalling.

Patrick_Devine•about 2 hours ago
In my testing the Gemma 4 31b model had the biggest speed boost in Ollama w/ the MLX runner for coding tasks (at about 2x). Unfortunately you'll need a pretty beefy Mac to run it because quantization really hurts the acceptance rate. The three other smaller models didn't perform as well because the validation time of the draft model ate up most of the performance gains. I'm still trying to tune things to see if I can get better performance.

You can try it out with Ollama 0.23.1 by running `ollama run gemma4:31b-coding-mtp-bf16`.

these•about 4 hours ago
Has anyone managed to get this to work in LM Studio? They've got a option in the UI, but it never seems to allow me to enable it.
dvt•about 4 hours ago
It's not implemented in mlx[1] yet (or llama.cpp[2]), so it may take a while.

[1] https://github.com/ml-explore/mlx-lm/pull/990

[2] https://github.com/ggml-org/llama.cpp/pull/22673

AlphaSite•about 3 hours ago
Yes. Make sure you’re not using the Gemma sparse models since they don’t have a small model to use. Also I removed all the image models from the workspace.
adrian_b•11 minutes ago
I do not know what you mean by sparse models.

All 4 gemma-4-*-it models, regardless whether they are dense models or MoE models, have associated small models for MTP, whose names are obtained by adding the "-assistant" suffix.

https://huggingface.co/google/gemma-4-E2B-it-assistant

https://huggingface.co/google/gemma-4-E4B-it-assistant

https://huggingface.co/google/gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-assistant

https://huggingface.co/google/gemma-4-31B-it-assistant

Havoc•about 3 hours ago
Normally when LM Studio doesn't like it it's because of the presence of mmproj files in the folder. Sometimes removing them helps it show up.

They're somehow connected to vision & block speculative decode...don't ask me how/why though

For gemma specifically had more luck with speculative using the llama-server route than lm studio

svachalek•about 3 hours ago
I've gotten it to work with other models. They've got to be perfectly aligned usually, in terms of provider, quantization etc. Might be a bit before you can get a matched set.
vhiremath4•about 2 hours ago
So this is like branch prediction for operating systems? Except we have probability baked into the model itself so it’s even more reliable.
Lihh27•26 minutes ago
similar idea, but the failure mode is better. a branch mispredict burns cycles. a bad guess here usually just means no bonus tokens. https://arxiv.org/abs/2211.17192
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netdur•about 1 hour ago
I am getting 21 t/s on Fold 7, 21 x 1.8 = 37.8 t/s compared to M1 Max's 54 t/s, that is impressive
el_isma•about 1 hour ago
How is this different from the speculative decoding that we had before?

You could pair a big and small model like qwen 32b with qwen 4b and had that same dynamic of the small model generating tokens and the big one "certifiying" them.

The blog says something about re-using the big model's data?

adrian_b•24 minutes ago
Multi token prediction is the same thing as speculative decoding. This is mentioned in the Google pages describing their MTP implementation.

Google has now provided small models for each of the previous Gemma 4 models, e.g. "gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-assistant" for "gemma-4-26B-A4B-it".

The difference vs. Qwen is that here each small model is not some general-purpose smaller model, but a model that has been optimized specifically for this task, to predict the output of the bigger model with which it is paired.

This specialization and optimization of the Google "gemma-4-*-assistant" models ensures that they are much smaller and thus much faster than general-purpose small models.

OneDeuxTriSeiGo•35 minutes ago
As far as I can tell MTP is unique from regular speculative decode because the small model is trained to consume and operate on the big model's hidden state for prediction.
julianlam•about 1 hour ago
Does this mean there will be new Gemma 4 models released with MTP, or are they already available in existing models + quants?
tannhaeuser•about 1 hour ago
Tested gemma4 26 MoE 4bit quantisized gguf on llama.cpp following these guides with mmap'd I/O on a 16GB MBP and it was unbearably slow (0.0 t/s).
nalinidash•about 3 hours ago
recsv-heredoc•about 3 hours ago
CloudFlare offers excellent service for many of the open-weights models. It's fast, cheap and simple to set up. Can highly suggest as an LLM provider.

They serve gemma-4-26b-a4b-it.

andruby•about 3 hours ago
They do indeed. See https://developers.cloudflare.com/workers-ai/models/ They seem to allow some free usage without user account. Do they list limits anywhere?
sigmar•about 2 hours ago
>try them directly on Google AI Edge Gallery for Android or iOS.

I'm not seeing any update to the app on my android phone... maybe later today?

>We’ve published an in-depth technical explainer

I was expected a pdf link, but this goes to a brief article on twitter/X. lol, okay...

disiplus•about 4 hours ago
nice, will run it later agains qwen3.6 27b, the speed was one of the reasons why in was running qwen and not gemma. the difference was big, there is some magic that happpens when you have more then 100tps.
AbuAssar•about 2 hours ago
these are the updated models:

google/gemma-4-31B-it-assistant

google/gemma-4-26B-A4B-it-assistant

google/gemma-4-E4B-it-assistant

google/gemma-4-E2B-it-assistant

sigmar•about 1 hour ago
for anyone wanting a glossary to explain the naming scheme here:

E4B = 4B effective parameters (using per-layer embeddings)

E2B = 2B (like above)

it = instruction tuned (rlhf and all that jazz)

assistant = Multi-token drafters (the new 2x speed up)

mchusma•about 4 hours ago
I find it puzzling Google doesn’t actively promote its own cloud for inference of Gemma 4. Open source is great, love it. But shouldn’t Google want me to be able to use and pay for it through Gemini and vertex?
Havoc•about 3 hours ago
There is a decent yt here going through what google's logic with gemma overall might be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXgZhGzqPmU

As for why cloud offer it - think it's just an effort to promote the brand. The gemmas are pretty small so they can host it without it being a major drain on the company. They have the infra anyway

whoahwio•about 1 hour ago
Makes me wonder about the partnership with apple to use gemini. safe to assume apple has a preference for on-device, and the best open model (for consumer hardware at least) is a google property with an apache 2 license. Interesting dynamic and seemingly a bright spot in the market
WarmWash•about 2 hours ago
A key thing to understand about Google is that under the hood is a collection of extremely powerful fiefdoms (many of which would stand as their own fortune 500, hell 100) that are all trying to act in their own interest. It's almost closer to a conglomerate than a company, where Google needs to bid internally against external players for resources.

If Gemma 4 is less lucrative than Claude to the Google Cloud kingdom, the Cloud kingdom will want you using Claude.

anthonypasq•about 2 hours ago
interesting. presumably this is why google is selling TPUs externally instead of hoarding them for deepmind.
Farmadupe•about 4 hours ago
I wonder if for a model that small with a permissive license it might not be worth their time to host a commercial grade inference stack?

Might be easier to chuck it over the fence and let other providers handle it as it'll run in almost any commercial grade card?

Also speculating, but I wonder if it might also create a bit of a pricing problem relative to Gemini flashlight depending on serving cost and quality of outputs?

As a comparison, despite being SotA for their size, the smallest qwen models on openrouter (27b and 35b) are not at all worth using, as there are way bigger and better models for less oricemon a per token basis

disiplus•about 4 hours ago
i dont know what are you talking about, i replaced an older gpt4o with a finetuned qwen. there is a huge amount of "AI, that can be done with those models, or partly by those models." Huge amount of people would not notice the difference. And if you prepare the context correctly, even bigger slice of people would not notice.
Farmadupe•about 2 hours ago
If it helps, I mean it in a really literal sense. qwen3.6 27b is currently $3.20 per million tokens on openrouter right now which is way overpriced. As good as the 27b is, kimi k2.5 $3.00 and it's just in another league in terms of capability. There's no reason to spend money on it.

And even alibaba's own qwen3.6-plus is $1.95, so it's kinda easy to come to a conclusion that alibaba (nor anyone else) is really interested in hosting that model.

And don't get me wrong, I fully agree with you, qwen3.6 27b is an amazing model. I run it on my own hardware and every day I'm constantly surprised with what it can zero shot.

dakolli•about 3 hours ago
Genuinely curious, what are you "fine tuning" these smaller models to do reliably? I hear this talked about a lot but very few people actually cough up examples, and I'd love to actually hear of one.
nolist_policy•about 3 hours ago
What do you mean? It just works with Google AI Studio.
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pu_pe•about 3 hours ago
So much faster inference with no quality degradation? All that for just some small memory overhead (drafter models are <1B it seems)?
tarruda•about 3 hours ago
They also published draft models for E4B and E2B. For those, the draft models are only 78m parameters: https://huggingface.co/google/gemma-4-E4B-it-assistant
furyofantares•about 2 hours ago
Is it really no quality degradation?

I'm curious where my understanding is wrong, but I didn't think you necessarily got the exact same output with how I understand speculative decoding to be used. I thought that if the small model produces tokens that are "good enough", meaning within the top few tokens the larger model produces, they're accepted.

I thought it doesn't necessarily have to produce the exact same token the larger model would have produced to be accepted (and that requiring this would reduce the hit rate by a lot.) Just one the top model could have produced with whatever top-k and temperature settings.

petu•about 1 hour ago
Speculative decoding batches multiple completions on all possible outcomes (0/1/2 draft tokens accepted) and sees if big model deviates at any point -- thus verifying each token. So there's no difference in output.
Klaus23•about 1 hour ago
It really is. This is because LLMs with a single output/user are strongly bandwidth limited. Although the hardware can generate multiple tokens simultaneously, it is slowed down if the tokens depend on each other, as is the case with regular text generation.

The draft model essentially predicts the next token quickly, enabling you to start generating the subsequent token in parallel. If the guess is right, the second generated token is correct. If it is wrong, the second generated token is also potentially wrong, so it must be generated again using the correct prior token obtained through the big model.

A poor draft model will simply slow down the process without affecting the output.

furyofantares•40 minutes ago
> If the guess is right

This is the crux. What makes the guess "right"?

I think the acceptance criteria is not that the token is exactly the token the big model would have produced. It's accepted of the big model verifies that the probability of that token was high enough.

How close it is to the same output (or same distribution of outputs) you'd get from running the big model would be dependent on temperature, top-k, top-p settings, or other inference parameters.

coder543•about 3 hours ago
MTP requires a separate KV cache, so there is more memory overhead than just the weights of the MTP model, but it's a manageable amount.
a_e_k•about 2 hours ago
From the linked post, it didn't read like a separate KV cache was needed:

> The draft models seamlessly utilize the target model's activations and share its KV cache, meaning they don't have to waste time recalculating context the larger model has already figured out.

coder543•about 2 hours ago
That's great news. That has not been the case with other MTP implementations like Qwen3.5, but I see the section in the article saying Google introduced some architectural optimizations to make this possible.
noashavit•about 1 hour ago
Gemma4:e4b is a huge upgrade
deskamess•about 3 hours ago
Did DeepSeek come up with MTP? It was listed prominently in their recent paper as being carried forward from the previous release.
logickkk1•2 minutes ago
i think this is mixing two separate ideas. MTP is the training-side piece. speculative decoding is the inference trick. DeepSeek V3 used MTP as an auxiliary loss. the 2022 Google paper is speculative decoding. now Google is combining them. https://arxiv.org/abs/2404.19737
shay_ker•about 3 hours ago
curious that they are doing speculative decoding and not baking MTP into the model, like Nemotron

https://docs.nvidia.com/megatron-core/developer-guide/0.15.0...

zargon•about 3 hours ago
They're using the term speculative decoding but doing MTP. It's the same thing as Nemotron, but Google removed the MTP heads from the original safetensora release. (They were not removed from the LiteRM format.)
franze•about 2 hours ago
if someone wants to work with gemma and dont deal with ollama or configs - there is (my baby) https://airplane-ai.franzai.com/

Beta but useable

CharlesW•about 1 hour ago
LM Studio (for example) is free, can you pitch me on your USP vs. it?
franze•about 1 hour ago
easiness of install (one download), zero configuration, zero online access by design - there will never we websearch, never any kind of tracking, your prompts stay on your device - you can totally put in user data, confident contracts, ...

plus over time the harness - coming version has a hotkey for screen capture, next release will have support for native excel, docx export

there is value in being offline by design

CharlesW•about 1 hour ago
LM Studio's tagline is literally "local AI on your computer" and has commensurate benefits, as do similar choices like Unsloth Studio and Ollama's desktop app. The differentiators you have planned sound like they'll help you establish a unique value prop. Good luck!
franze•about 2 hours ago
biggest pain is currently waiting for apple for the next release with updates mac os app store screenshots
brcmthrowaway•about 3 hours ago
Is Google's local model strategy tuned to pegging down big AI cloud labs a notch?
whoahwio•about 1 hour ago
dumping money into Gemma and shorting new data center buildouts is a level of Corporate Vision that ends up in an HBS case study
simianwords•about 2 hours ago
Gemma 4 is really a beast. The 31B version is totally usable like for cases when I'm bored without internet
ActorNightly•about 2 hours ago
I found that Gemma 4:26b makes way more mistakes compared to Qwen and Gemma 3. Gemma3 27b QAT was my goto for some time as this was quite fast. Qwen is still king for a balance of accuracy and inference speed.

Gemma:31b was more accurate but speed was horrendous.

m3kw9•about 3 hours ago
ok so? Anyone got a verdict/review?