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Discussion (23 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

efskapabout 2 hours ago
If anyone is interested in learning it, there's nothing better than Ørberg's Lingua Latina per se Illustrata. It's entirely in Latin, including grammar explanations, but it starts out incredibly simple and ramps up gradually with lots of repetition. And that's fun AND effective, since you're immersed rather than grinding tables.
cwnyth13 minutes ago
As a former Latin instructor with literally decades of experience, I strongly recommend not relying solely on Ørberg. The outcomes of those who refused to supplement it with a proper grammar and dictionary were far, far behind those who used Wheelock alone.

It's very popular online, but it's methodologically bunk.

toleranceabout 1 hour ago
"Grinding tables" might be the most accurate description of my language-learning experience that I've come across.
daemonologist37 minutes ago
We quoted that book for years (probably because the accompanying audio version had a somewhat amusing cadence, but I do also think it was a lot more beneficial to learning than trudging through classical texts with a dictionary).
cyberax15 minutes ago
Lifehack: Latin is much easier if you already know a Slavic or a Baltic language (except Bulgarian). While declension patterns are different, the case structures are very similar. Not identical, but close enough that you can actually just need to learn the differences.

Most other grammatical structures are also directly comparable.

So you can make your life easier by studying a Slavic (or a Baltic) language first.

(mwahaha!)

mcooklyabout 1 hour ago
Thanks for sharing this! My wife and I have been interested in refreshing our Latin from high school, and we've been looking for good resources.

We've also toyed with the idea of learning it as a living language, which seems to be an increasingly-popular method among autodidacts these days.

tad_tough_anne14 minutes ago
I haven't read it in years, and my Latin's pretty rusty now, but it was the most useful and fun thing I used.[1] If you get the book, you might also like Mr. Ørberg's recordings (widely pirated) of himself reading the text with a Classical pronunciation. There are also some good Latin YouTubers; my favorite is Satura Lanx, <https://youtube.com/@SaturaLanx>, but Luke Ranieri, <https://youtube.com/@polyMATHY_Luke>, is also good and very knowledgeable.

___

1. Disci latíne quando cathólica eram quia melius Missam ac Offícium légere volébam. Nunc non christiána, neque Missa assísto nec Breviárium canto, sed multas antiphónas pulchras iam mémini.

kevin_thibedeauabout 1 hour ago
Duolingo has a Latin course.
morcusabout 1 hour ago
Duolingo has a tenth of a Latin course.

Source: I did the whole thing before I learned Latin from a different course. Duolingo's is unfinished.

erelongabout 1 hour ago
I've seen Scanlon's Latin which was written I think to help people pray the Divine Office in latin
jimbob4519 minutes ago
Do you find it better than Wheelock’s? As a casual language observing hobbyist, it’s really scratched my itch of learning why Latin is the way it is.
jdw64about 2 hours ago
I used to think the Vatican would be old-fashioned, but the writing on its site is more readable than I expected. In particular, while reading the section “Development: Humanism and Posthumanism,” I found it interesting to compare the religious worldview of the West with my own more humanistic worldview.

This passage especially stood out to me:

> At the application level, AI in the strict sense raises questions about the reliability of data and the criteria by which programmers process it so as to make it available. It is unclear what biases or power systems influence the work. In particular, serious doubts arise regarding automated, AI-based decision-making processes in sensitive areas of human life: when deciding whether to provide medical care or grant loans or mortgages or insurance, or when prosecuting criminal cases in court or assessing the conduct of prisoners and the likelihood of reoffending with a view to reducing sentences, or when deciding on military attacks or law enforcement interventions.

It is funny because this almost feels like a complete summary of recent Hacker News debates in a single paragraph.

jquinbyabout 2 hours ago
There is an AI working group in one of the dicasteries that has produced two excellent publications:

Encountering Artificial Intelligence (https://jmt.scholasticahq.com/article/91230-encountering-art...)

Reclaiming Human Agency in the Age of Artificial Intelligence (https://jmt.scholasticahq.com/article/154545-reclaiming-huma...)

jdw64about 2 hours ago
I think I will read this while running my agents in parallel. Thank you, my friend.

The writing is genuinely excellent.

In tech communities, we often talk about how many times productivity will increase, or whether AI has consciousness. But in religious documents, the focus is often on how the problems of the vulnerable and the community will change.

That is interesting to me. The worldview is Western and religious, so it feels somewhat unfamiliar, but at the same time, it seems useful as a way to rediscover values that we may have forgotten.

osullivjabout 2 hours ago
Catholic Social Teaching: 19th C origins. An alternate base to Marxism for social justice.
reaperducerabout 2 hours ago
People love to wallow in the stereotype that the Catholic Church is old fashioned and anti-science. That's mostly propaganda leftover from 300 years ago.

Catholic nuns were instrumental in the development of computers. A Catholic priest is fundamental to the Big Bang Theory†. Dozens of craters on the moon were named by and for Catholic clergy who discovered them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Lemaître

zdragnarabout 2 hours ago
I'm somewhat surprised it's still up, given the rather firm refusal by Francis to allow the Latin mass at churches that wanted it in the States.
wahernabout 1 hour ago
The term "Latin mass" confuses two distinct aspects. Colloquially it refers to celebrating the Tridentine Mass in Latin. But the Tridentine Mass was already celebrated in the vernacular years before Vatican II, though it was optional and I don't know how widespread it was. The Vatican II reformed mass was expected to use the vernacular in most parts, but it can also be given in Latin, and Latin is the canonical form against which translations are made.

I've been to a Latin mass a couple of times, specifically a sung (aka high) Latin mass. I see why so many people prefer it. But the Novus Ordo can also be sung. Latin masses also tend to use incense, etc, which also used to be more common in the Norvus Ordo. The real division is between parishes and priests with the energy to put into the mass, versus those that fall into the habit of doing the bare minimum. The "Latin mass" just happens to be a convenient mechanism that bifurcates the two groups.

Relatedly, I read a argument somewhere that the current state can be traced back to the proliferation of Irish priests. In Ireland the low (unsung) Latin mass had apparently been for centuries the predominate form even on Sundays. I'm not sure how accurate that is, but reading various sources it does seem that in various parts of the world the sung mass had already been in a long decline at least since the 1800s. And I think the Norvus Ordo was intended to simplify things in the hopes of reviving the energy in the mass, but instead it just created a lower floor.

mcooklyabout 1 hour ago
I've heard the same re. the Irish.

Regarding the Novus Ordo, I believe that the key document from Vatican II (Sacrosanctum Concilium) still preferred Latin as the dominant language in liturgy, while readings etc. stayed in the vernacular, but clearly that is not what happened.

There's been an uptick in numbers for Tridentine Rite, so tides might shift back as Catholics realize the wealth of their liturgical tradition.

b00ty4breakfast30 minutes ago
Latin is still the official language of the Catholic Church. The meaning of words in dead dead language like Latin don't change much and so a document written in Latin is likely to be easily understood in 4-500 years (for people who can read Latin) and used for translations into the local vernacular. Whereas a language like English is constantly evolving and so the version of some words in, for a relevant example, the original King James Bible, do not mean the same thing in modern English that they did in the early 17th century.

The hulabaloo about the Latin or so-called Tridentine Mass is a cultural issue that is mostly about shifting societal norms and only incidentally about it's being in Latin. This is evidenced by the fact that the current form of the Mass, the Novus Ordo, is written in Latin then translated into the vernacular, and it can still be validly performed in Latin without special dispensation from the Vatican.

edflsafoiewqabout 2 hours ago
That isn't because of a general opposition to all uses of Latin.
bombcarabout 2 hours ago
The official version of that document is in ... Latin.
stephenhueyabout 1 hour ago
He had specific reasons for not wanting it in mass:

https://www.americamagazine.org/faith/2021/07/19/latin-mass-...

reaperducerabout 2 hours ago
I'm somewhat surprised it's still up, given the rather firm refusal by Francis to allow the Latin mass at churches that wanted it in the States.

Maybe because a web site isn't holy Mass?

dlt713705about 2 hours ago
How do you say "Click here" in Latin ?
schoen36 minutes ago
Google Translate suggested "preme hic" which is plausible to me (I've spent a lot of time with Latin but haven't thought of this particular question before). It literally means "press here".
ks204837 minutes ago
According to google, "preme hic". ("press here")
s20n39 minutes ago
Clickus Hereus
gedy23 minutes ago
Bigus Clickus
Svokaabout 1 hour ago
probably same as "press here"
mrKolaabout 2 hours ago
It has to be there for the aliens.
user3939382about 2 hours ago
I caught a bishop committing felonies, reported it to the Vatican. It resulted in 12 years of kangaroo court litigation in their analog of a justice system and no action or consequences despite incontrovertible forensic evidence. We got a PBS documentary instead, great. Absolute disgrace of an institution.
atleastoptimalabout 2 hours ago
lorem ipsum
dlt713705about 2 hours ago
How do you say "click here" in Latin ?