Back to News
Advertisement
Advertisement

⚔ Community Insights

Discussion Sentiment

48% Positive

Analyzed from 1443 words in the discussion.

Trending Topics

#true#arguments#parameter#named#boolean#false#user#code#isadmin#https

Discussion (38 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

dematz•about 1 hour ago
First, sentences like "Not because it’s complicated. Just because I have no idea what I’m looking at." and "Tiny interruption. Still annoying every time." fatigue me, it's like you have an editor who, no matter what the content is, tries to spice up your writing with lots of little punchy exclamations, not everything needs such emphasis

Second, this may differ a bit from language to language, but maybe those booleans should not be a boolean: https://gleam.run/documentation/conventions-patterns-and-ant... for example isAdmin boolean could instead be a UserRole custom type, with variants Normal and Admin, which is easier to understand in the function call, and extendable with another Moderator (or whatever) variant

megiddo•about 1 hour ago
Exactly my thought. I know languages differ in support ... but enum is right there.
NooneAtAll3•about 1 hour ago
> toggleMenu(true); That’s clear enough. the meaning is obvious

so... it does toggle the menu? and toggleMenu(false) doesn't toggle it and keeps it as it is?

or is it toggle extended menu vs toggle basic menu?

sph•about 1 hour ago
AI;dr: keyword arguments would be great in all languages, not just Smalltalk

Also, obviously bot/bought account.

saghm•about 1 hour ago
Swift also has them. It's probably the one thing I sometimes wish Rust would copy from them.
PaulKeeble•about 3 hours ago
There is something to be said for the bitmasks that are so common in C, createUser(user, ADMIN | SENDMAIL); has a lot more clarity than createUser(user, true, false, true);

I don't mind the object approach used here but its quite verbose in comparison even in Javascript. Having to name the variable and set whether its true or false is a lot more than needs to be done. Booleans in general have quite poor readibility and maintenance especially if a third possibility arrives.

jchw•about 1 hour ago
I don't remember where it was originally written, but Qt used to have a fantastic Qt Quarterly about API design that included "The Boolean Parameter Trap", which advised several potential solutions to this very problem. Of course, it was somewhat specific to C++ in what it recommended, but I find that many insights in Qt's API design are more broadly applicable than they may first appear. In this case one insight that stuck with me: it's often better to use an enumeration of two values over a boolean.

And while searching for a reference, I found the original Qt Quarterly, archived here: https://doc.qt.io/archives/qq/qq13-apis.html - I am sure some of it is just hopelessly outdated, but the general insights probably still hold up. There's a probably-more-modern successor here on their wiki: https://wiki.qt.io/API_Design_Principles

tantalor•about 1 hour ago
This one is a classic,

Avoid the Long Parameter List

https://testing.googleblog.com/2024/05/avoid-long-parameter-...

Demiurge•about 1 hour ago
Named arguments are a great feature in Python. I often forget TypeScript doesn't have this, but I use the object form all the times. As a bonus, you can also declare these arguments in an object an interface type, aptly named.
kevsim•about 2 hours ago
This is commonly referred to as "the boolean trap". You'll find lots of articles about it.
edwcross•about 2 hours ago
OCaml has had labeled arguments for decades, so I assumed other languages would have added something similar by now. In C-style, it would be like:

  createUser(user, ~isAdmin:true, ~sendWelcomeEmail:false)
Even though in OCaml's functional style it is actually like this:

  createUser user ~isAdmin:true ~sendWelcomeEmail:false
Using the fact that a variable named exactly like a labeled argument is automatically assigned to it, we can make the call more concise (especially if reusing existing variables):

  let isAdmin = true in
  let sendWelcomeEmail = false in
  createUser user ~isAdmin ~sendWelcomeEmail
jdiff•23 minutes ago
This is one of the things I've loved about Gleam, one local variable name and potentially an external label that callers can use to annotate themselves. For example, a function declaration may look like this:

  pub fn pad_end(
    string: String,
    to desired_length: Int,
    with pad_string: String,
  ) -> String
And a call to this function may look like:

  pad_end("123", to: 5, with: ".")
Dagonfly•about 1 hour ago
It's the one thing I miss from Swift when I'm using literally any other language. Interal and external parameter names. I would love for Rust to adopt:

  fn foo(namedParam internalName: bool) { // use internalName here }

  fn foo(unnamedParam: bool)
eithed•about 1 hour ago
Think the issue is not with named parameters per se, but with mixing domain logic = there are two different user creation flows, that should be doing two different things (or mostly different things), but are guarded with boolean flag.

As author points out: "So I’ll usually just make it explicit:

createAdminUser(user);

createRegularUser(user);

Now there’s not much left to interpret. To be fair, this isn’t always bad. Sometimes this is completely fine:

toggleMenu(true);

That’s clear enough. This tends to work when:

- the meaning is obvious

- the function is small and local

- there’s only one flag "

MathMonkeyMan•about 1 hour ago
You can do this as a convention in javascript since 2015, but I haven't seen a library that does it:

    > function foo({a, b, c}) {
    ... return {x: a, y: b, z: c};
    ... }
    undefined
    > foo({a: 1, b: 2, c: 3})
    { x: 1, y: 2, z: 3 }
    > const a = 'A', b = 'B', c = 'C';
    undefined
    > foo({a, b, c})
    { x: 'A', y: 'B', z: 'C' }
    >
lostmsu•about 2 hours ago
C# has that
tyleo•about 2 hours ago
In the last couple of years I’ve started using named parameters a bunch more across languages. I consider objects like this close to the JS version of a named parameter. I probably would have thrown ā€œnameā€ in myself so it’s one arg for the whole func.

I feel like a goal with good code is localizing understanding even if it occasionally duplicates something like a parameter name.

Dwedit•about 1 hour ago
This is where something like "const bool isAdmin = true, sendWelcomeEmail = false" helps. Now your literal values aren't in the function call arguments anymore, but instead their meaning is, you just need to look elsewhere (probably the line right above it) to find their values.
Advertisement
bradrn•about 2 hours ago
Also known as ā€˜boolean blindnessā€˜: e.g. https://cs-syd.eu/posts/2016-07-24-overcoming-boolean-blindn...
pwdisswordfishq•about 2 hours ago
This has nothing to do with it.
disillusionist•about 1 hour ago
I've been using this pattern for the past couple years for the benefits the author mentions. In addition to that, it can help with overly complicated functions (which, ok, could probably be refactored) that have multiple optional arguments.
heyitsdaad•about 2 hours ago
You answered your own question. Call with

const isAdmin = true; . . . createUser(user, isAdmin, sendWelcomeEmail)

rcxdude•about 1 hour ago
If you swap the order of isAdmin and sendWelcomeEmail you'll get no error from the compiler but now the names will be masking the actual behaviour.
arethuza•14 minutes ago
Can you imagine how much fun it would be to find that bug?
paulddraper•34 minutes ago
This article relates to two classic principles:

1. Avoid long parameter lists [1]

2. Avoid boolean arguments [2]

For #1, long parameter lists should be named (named arguments, options object, etc).

For #2, and booleans should be replaced by meaningful enumerations.

> toggleMenu(true); That’s clear enough. the meaning is obvious

Actually, it's incredible ambiguous. Is that toggling the menu? Or setting it to the open state? Or something else? I have no idea.

  setMenuState(MenuState.OPEN)
  setMenuState(MenuState.CLOSED)
[1] https://testing.googleblog.com/2024/05/avoid-long-parameter-...

[2] https://alexkondov.com/should-you-pass-boolean-to-functions/

trgn•about 2 hours ago
named arguments are hacking object literals to provide additional readability. it's ok, but not for all code paths, they have a true overhead. problem is that these things start to become idee fixes in teams (all funcs should have named args!). ideally, this could be fixed in the language.
tyleo•about 2 hours ago
Agree that it would be nice to fix in the language. It seems like something that even a transpiler could take care of.

Ultimately I think I’d bias towards readability vs the marginal perf increase though.

vrighter•about 1 hour ago
i like to create enums instead of boolean.

CreateUser(CreateAdmin::enable);

bcjdjsndon•about 2 hours ago
Isn't this more an issue with typescript? Doesn't your ide give you the declaration if you hover over the call?

> And I’ve seen real calls like this in production code: > updateSettings(user, true, false, true, false)

Really? He wants named parameters on all function calls cos he's got a memory like a sieve? This is a long solved problem to me

esafak•about 2 hours ago
Usable languages let you use named arguments foo(bar=zaz), and linters let you enforce their use for booleans.

https://kotlinlang.org/docs/functions.html#named-arguments

uberman•about 2 hours ago
Perhaps, jsdocs might help here.
readthenotes1•about 2 hours ago
Someone want to recreate Smalltalk...
Advertisement
rideontime•about 2 hours ago
I was nodding along with the piece in the first half, then it repeated the same point five more times and I started to smell slop.
empath75•about 2 hours ago
You can tell it was written by claude after just a few sentences, really.
chickenimprint•about 1 hour ago
Even the premise is ridiculous, inlay hints for parameter names have existed for a really long time. What human using a code editor could come up with this "problem"? The comments all seem to be nodding along and even suggesting absolutely hare-brained code like "const isThing = true; ...". I feel like I'm losing my mind. How many interactions on this site are sill organic? Am I talking to a bot right now?
tom_•28 minutes ago
Bleep bloop. This has always bothered me for one. Bools for unnamed parameters just always end up a bit of a pain.

1. Somewhat often, parameter hints just stop working. Why? Who knows! There never seems to be any way to debug these mechanisms. They just stop working and you're forced to do stuff like delete random cache folders or toggle random options, as suggested by randos from Stack Overflow posts in 2017, until it maybe starts working again (for now)

2. Parameter hints sometimes aren't available when you need them. Xcode, for example, only seems to be able to put them inline, as text in the document that you replace with the arguments, something available only when writing code. You can't get them to pop up on demand as a reader as you can with, say, Visual Studio

3. You might be examining the code in some kind of review UI, rather than a code editor, in which case you're going to have to do some back and forth. You might be right in the middle of something yourself, and not in a position to retrieve the code locally to examine it in the usual editing environment. (I don't think you should go overboard optimising for this case, but I think it worth considering)

4. From the type checker perspective, all bools are equivalent. If you pass "false" for one bool parameter, then you could just as well pass that same "false" for another one - complicating rearranging or adjusting parameters, because, depending on the type of change you make, you may not get a good set of diagnostics to work through. And it gets worse if you've got defaulted or optional parameters

gcmeplz•29 minutes ago
yeah, I immediately came to the comment section to look for inlay hints, and your comment is the only one that mentions them. I guess many people might not be aware that they're a standard editor option?

fwiw, while inlay hints are great, they don't work in either git-delta or github, so they're not availabe in a good chunk of the places that I'm looking at code, so for TypeScript, I do lean towards object arguments with keys the way the article suggests.

chickenimprint•about 1 hour ago
I wonder whether a person prompted this slop and is somehow unaware of the existence of LSPs, or if it's entirely automated and the planning subagent hallucinated this being an issue for humans.