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It will increase costs, but so be it. If you're going to build these things, then do it right.
A bigger problem, however, is that this requires functional government working in the interests of its residents.
[1] https://www.computeforecast.com/news/pure-dc-avk-europe-data...
[2] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/microsoft-cloud/blog/2024/12...
Data Centers should buy power at whatever the going rate of electricity is.
It is advantageous for some data centers to build their own power, but its not the norm nor should any industry be required to.
Whats next Aluminium smelting? Oil production? Big box retail?
Just because an industry that uses power has become the enemy of the week doesnt exclude them from market access. That should be obvious.
>A bigger problem, however, is that this requires functional government working in the interests of its residents.
It requires governments reacting to random populist impulses that don't fundamentally aid the community to ban random industries from the grid. Why not pressure the government to react to power price increases with additional supply like anyone who spends 20 seconds considering this issue would come up with?
Yes I would say any large construction project that carries a risk of negatively impacting its community should be required to mitigate those issues in order to gain approval. Otherwise you are just passing on those negative "externalities" to someone else.
Then, a datacenter comes along, effectively a bigger, louder, richer neighbor playing by the same lack of rules and outdoes them at their own game. It's only oppression when a bigger dog shows up?
That's unironically how it's sometimes defined. "racism = prejudice + power", as the saying goes.
Unfortunately to many people just take headlines and memes from terrible sources as to how they should think without putting any thought into it. Both sides are also vilified against each other.
I would expect this to become one of those things in the near future.
The side that fraudulently claimed the other side stole an election, tried to overturn it, and then pardoned people found guilty of treason made themselves the villains. And that was just the tip of the iceberg.
We could have used the momentum to build new work opportunities and resources.
Instead we managed to mis-represent the thing so much that people won't even consider having a data center in their vicinity.
It COULD have been a good thing. It became a bad thing.
It’s the only 1 out of 200 in that area, so it’s not representative of what data centers sound like. It does show how you can’t trust the operators to do what best for the local community. It does show how a functioning government works because Loudon county increased oversight and changes the rules to stop another project like that. Setup policies to manage externalities, and don’t make ignorant bans.
"Theres one noisy data centre" ok deal with it locally and stop using it for your silly crusade.
A sibling post links to a news story [1] which I think is more credible and they measured the noise at 90db right outside the data center - which is certainly high. But they are filming next to a highway and a shopping center, which were presumably quite noisy to begin with. And both of the residents they interviewed hadn't even noticed the noise before the interviewer pointed it out.
They also show some footage from a different data center in the area, and it is much quieter. So sounds like it can vary from datacenter to datacenter, with this one being unnusually loud.
[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkvabeNMaxU
I’m not against data centers, I don’t mind one way or another. But they’ve definitely not improved the neighborhood and have almost no positive benefits for the community that I’m aware of.
Half the stuff going on in most data centres the terminally online crowd would consider to be human rights these days. But you cant calculate that element from Twitter.
"Whats the value of a router terminating multiple VXC's to me, jim everyman" well jimmy, what if you are about to place a call across that VXC.
Oh sure, you can make the argument about how it's going to drive sales tax revenue and create jobs and all that.
But then the reality sets in. The massive property and corporate income tax breaks and subsidies and land use variances that were all negotiated as part of the deal come to roost. The jobs aren't upwardly mobile jobs. The income tax revenue isn't enough to offset all the other breaks.
And you end up with a yolk saddled on the backs of the working class. Of which the bachelor degreed workforce necessary to make something like a data center happen gets treated more and more like a trade than a profession.
Back in the 90s when NAFTA was on everyone's tongues, something like a data center would have been a huge boon to the local economy. And let us be clear, "local economy" means families. But today, things like this study, show that people have no confidence the Invisible Hand is working for them anymore.
Then it sounds like the issue is subsidized datacenters, and the solution is simple: don't subsidize them.
If you believe they are going to build their own power plants and water lines, I've got a bridge to sell you
https://archive.is/8yQin
They are getting wealthy off absorbing those externalities that come from production of consumer goods while we watch “Oww! My balls!” and drink Brawndo!
So are they (China) shortsighted? Or are they slowly winning in global influence?
This isn't a problem for the vast majority of datacenters, and won't become a larger problem unless the anti-civilization mindset blocks infrastructure investment that's eventually needed even if the datacenter isn't built.
Bad actors are ruining public perception. Either an industry group needs to form or self-regulate, or governments will do it for them.
Pesky Americans, with their rights and voting power!
1. Build them in the industrial part of town. I'm from Michigan, there are neighborhoods in our cities filled with manufacturing firms stamping steel and making all kinds of noise with few houses. Yes the real estate can be more expensive and sometimes needs pollution removed but there are usually willing economic development departments willing to help.
2. Make the data centers bring their own power.
3. Find ways to creatively help the community. Saw pictures of a data center recently where they created two huge public swimming pools that are open all winter long, There is a power plant on Lake Michigan where they heat all the sidewalks. Imagine waking up in the morning and not having to shovel or spread ice before going to work.
4. Find ways to repurpose unwanted buildings. Detroit wants to tear down two of the five towers of the Renaissance Center which is on the Detroit River. One of the towers would have the first two floors occupied by the University of Michigan which would offer training classes on technology to the community. The rest would be a data center for the university. Power would be two gas turbines on the roof. The other tower would be a partnership with Detroit Public Schools that would offer a dormitory for all the school age kids living on the street. Educate these children from 6-18. Most American cities have at least one empty skyscraper that could be repurposed as a vertical data center.
5. Repurpose old shopping centers as data centers. South of the Mason Dixon line where solar has a higher ROI you could cover the entire parking lot with solar cells. You could offer free or nearly free shaded parking, maybe even let campers have extended stays.
No, we do not. There's no prize to be won, nothing of value to be gained.
This is a concerning thing. Folks talk about AI as if it is a forgone conclusion. But it has yet to be demonstrated.
I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place right now. I work at a company that claims its people are the source of its great work output, yet the key stakeholders for my particular project are constantly beating the "AI, use AI" drum.
I've been trying to design a product that enhances our analysts abilities. A middle ground where the subject matter experts use AI to do the boring, manual labor kind of work that doesn't enrich anyone and just leads to our organization burning out junior analysts with overtime they'll never get compensated for.
But my stakeholders keep beating that drum. "AI can do this work from front to back."
To be clear, it can't. We've done the research to figure out that any sense that an LLM applied to the kind of work we do is only a dilettantism. It looks good if you are skimming the output, but drilling down deep there are massive problems.
But that story, "AI is good now. What did you try last year? What model did you use? It can do so much now." Is pernicious.
First of all, the models today I don't see producing anything functionally better; they just dress it up in better language.
Second, that's not an actionable software engineering plan! "Oh, just wait a year, the AI will get better". Sure, it gets better at not completely shitting the bed before you coax it into doing a particular job. But it hasn't been getting better at being actually insightful, actually delivering on what our people with very deep experience can do just by rote, just by asking them, "what do you think of <insert competitor>'s capacity to deliver X compared to our ability to do same?"
I feel like I'm living in crazytown. I evaluate AI capability much more than what my stakeholders do and they keep telling me "more AI!" If it weren't for my mortgage and my kids and my junior devs I'm desperately trying to protect, I would have quit months ago.
Very few people are affected by having a dump nearby or a nuclear power plant, whereas it seems like the power generators for these AI data centers really belong in an industrial park.
These data centers also don't employ many people, though I've read they are wonderful for city taxes, assuming they haven't gotten too many enticing tax breaks.
They also benefit from an AI datacenter, at least as evidenced by how many installs the chatgpt app has.
>Very few people are affected by having a dump nearby or a nuclear power plant, whereas it seems like the power generators for these AI data centers really belong in an industrial park.
Something tells me the anti-datacenter activists won't be placated by moving a block or two away from residential zones.
>These data centers also don't employ many people, though I've read they are wonderful for city taxes, assuming they haven't gotten too many enticing tax breaks.
And dumps do?
-- Loudoun County, Virginia
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAliBRyq_1c
Look how close all these shrieking buildings are to residential areas.
There have been a lot of sins committed by the oil industry, like in Texas there are lot of leaking, "orphan" wells where nobody ended up being responsible for capping the well and doing the clean up. This goes back to the 1950s and earlier. I think things are somewhat better now.
There's literally zero upside to a community to building a data center. Electricity costs go up, there's noise pollution, there are no jobs, water rates go up and there is water pollution.
Honestly, fracking is a better deal than a data center.
Put in place sensible rules around noise, locating in pre-planned areas, and covering the cost for electrical upgrades then let the market decide how many to build. Most people appear to be getting their information from TikTok and have developed a very ignorant NIMBY attitude.
To be blunt progress does get made by listening solely to those who get short end of the stick. Japan and China have good rail in large part because the central government can simply make the globally better choice over the objections of those nearby who lose out due to noise and other factors. We don’t need to do that, we simply need to not let ignorance win and instead regulate the externalities properly, and capture value for the public through property taxes.
We're seeing just how easy it is to get something wildly unpopular approved. Approvals are given in the dead of night, with little notice, over objections and by weaponizing certain legislation or government authority.
A great example of this is the Kevin O'Leary Utah mega-data center than the county didn't want so Kevin O'Leary went to the military, specifically the Military Installation Development Authority ("MIDA") to basically get them to argue the project was for "national security" and to override the county [1].
And here's what's going to happen. Most of these officials won't get voted out. Those that do will get some random six-figure job loosely associated with whoever owns the data center.
Basically, we're getting a front row seat on just how undemocratic and corrupt government generally is.
It's worth adding that a decade ago Princeton did a study on the effect of public opinion on what bills Congress passed and basically it has zero effect [2]. Bills have about a 30% chance of getting passed and that doesn't change if 0% of people support it or 100% of people support it.
[1]: https://www.sltrib.com/news/2026/05/11/utah-data-center-proj...
[2]: https://act.represent.us/sign/problempoll-fba
That's the way it's been since 1789. Each year, college students think they've uncovered something shocking.
It wouldn't be surprising if a large portion of the anti-DC movement is being perpetuated by the same orgs.
Personally, I view the Kochs and Singham as two sides of the same coin and a major reason why Citizens United should not have been ruled in the manner it was.
It is what it is. Data centers are the one bright spot that has been subsidizing green and renewable energy investment now that the Trump admin is running the show, as only mass scale solar and wind can support much of the buildout cheaply and efficiently.
We can always leave for the CEE and India where their governments are basically subsidizing the entire capex for buildout. And then American and Western European HNers complain that "dey took 'er jerbs".
[0] - https://cloud.google.com/blog/topics/threat-intelligence/dra...
The arguments I frequently hear are:
1) It will jack up our electric rates. From the same people who will NIMBY solar and battery all day long.
2) It uses all of our water.
3) The dust and construction traffic is terrible and it looks terrible.
4) It’s massive and noisy.
I’m struggling because the only item I can seemingly validate is electricity cost.
There is water usage but it seems heavily tied to the electrical generation. Cooling is a one time consumption and annual top off. Which as I mentioned, these same people will tell you solar and battery are no good.
For the eyesore and size etc, it way out of town, when it’s done not many will work there, and noise, they’ve built a hill around it and it won’t use on site electrical generation.
I just don’t get the hate. The electrical stuff is a challenge but was going to be no matter what. AI just accelerated it. Maybe I need to go see some other sites to see how bad it is.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/articles/no-one-live-video-shows-...
They’re loud and I wouldn’t want one running continuously around me.
The point is though, I haven’t been able to find indication that they will be used for this DC. Much of the drama surrounding this DC is because the utility pushed approval through then went had a $500 mil capital improvement rate hike.
I acknowledge the affect on electrical rates is a problem. But this DC has become a flashpoint in Michigan and I’m just not sure I follow why it’s so awful overall.