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#malawi#rwanda#more#better#countries#corruption#poor#aid#country#article

Discussion (71 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

JumpCrisscross•12 minutes ago
> The fertilizer subsidy program (FISP) consumes up to three-fourths the agriculture budget in some years to subsidize maize inputs for smallholders. It is politically untouchable because rural maize farmers are the median voter. Several administrations have made some attempt to reform it and backed down. Resources that could go to roads, irrigation, or diversification go to propping up the existing structure.

Idk, this one doesn't seem super difficult to diagnose. The political system has been captured by a special interest with consolidated control.

rwyinuse•about 2 hours ago
Perhaps there are cultural reasons that explain this, such as attitudes towards work, entrepreneurship, private ownership etc?

I have no idea if Rwanda and Malawi have difference there, but globally one can see clearly see the impact of culture. Just look at how well Japan did despite losing WW2 and having little natural resources, or how badly Russia has done despite its huge landmass and resources, because the political culture always seems to lead to really bad autocratic governance.

In my country (Finland) areas where Swedish speaking people are the majority do consistently better than neighbouring areas with Finnish speaking majority - lower unemployment, less health and social issues and so on. Some of that may be due to historical accumulation of wealth, but I'm convinced that mostly it's because of differences in cultural values and attitudes. Some studies indicate that the Swedish speakers tend to have better social life, which improves life outcomes in many ways.

peterfirefly•about 1 hour ago
More like: Rwanda has a competent dictator (and has had the same one for 26 years, more if you consider the years where he was the strongman behind the President). A competent dictator is better than an incompetent dictator -- or even, in many ways, an incompetent democracy.
ViktorRay•about 1 hour ago
Is Malawi an incompetent democracy? Based on the article it seems to have a functioning stable democracy.

Are you implying that a dictator would lead to Malawi becoming wealthy? Seems like a disturbing argument. If that’s not what you are implying then what are you implying?

therein•about 1 hour ago
Are you implying that a "functioning" democracy automatically leads to good decisions being made and crowd always has good wisdom regardless of the attributes of the crowd?

To lead a country to prosperity is as simple as letting a nation vote and counting their votes and then giving power to the guy they voted for?

amoorthy•about 1 hour ago
Immigrants to any country are a unique slice of the population because they chose to migrate for a better life. Hence immigrants in most countries tend to do well economically (sometimes after a generation). Uncertain that cultural differences are the reason for different economic outcomes you observe.
seszett•16 minutes ago
Swedish speakers in Finland are not immigrants anymore than Dutch speakers in Belgium are, though (the Dutch speaking area also generally does better than the French speaking areas, for a variety of reasons).
inemesitaffia•17 minutes ago
They are usually richer too.
nradov•about 1 hour ago
Which immigrants? A significant fraction of native Finnish citizens speak Swedish as their primary language. It used to be the same country.
NooneAtAll3•32 minutes ago
why did you decide to mention Finland?
RobotToaster•about 1 hour ago
Malawians have a reputation of being extremely kind people, maybe that makes them bad at capitalism?
SoftTalker•about 1 hour ago
I mean, is it beyond belief that many of them are OK with living a simple agrarian life? Or have very little opportunity to learn that there is any other way to live?
xandrius•about 2 hours ago
I think just you can get a glimpse by what they export (from Wikipedia):

- Malawi: tobacco (55%), dried legumes (8.8%), sugar (6.7%), tea (5.7%), cotton (2%), peanuts, coffee, soy (2015 est.)

- Rwanda: Gold, tin ores, coffee, malt extract, rare earth ores

I can easily see why one has a higher GDP than the other. Very little mistery to me.

nearbuy•about 1 hour ago
As the article states, that Malawi hasn't developed much industry or exports is more of a description of poverty than an explanation. Malawi can grow coffee, but mostly doesn't. They have rare earth element deposits, but little mining. Why haven't they developed more?
elmomle•38 minutes ago
Could it be that they haven't been so infected by the money bug that for now they still have a society oriented around happiness and maintaining traditional ways of life rather than economic attainment?
jonathanlydall•19 minutes ago
I live in South Africa and my gardener happens to be Malawian, as was a gardener my parents had when I was growing up.

They’re both good people with pride in their work, but they are from poverty and have little in the way of skills except for manual labour jobs.

They came to South Africa, like so many from nearby countries, as our significantly more developed economy offers far better earning opportunity.

Not relevant to your comment, but want to also mention this creates xenophobic tension with the section of the local population which is in poverty as they feel their jobs are stolen. While there are certainly cases where people illegally employ immigrants to pay them less than locals, in cases where pay is at least equal, Zimbabweans and Malawians tend to have reputation of being more honest and hard working than the indigenous population.

We have Nigerians come here too and by contrast they tend to be super scetchy.

aaronbrethorst•28 minutes ago
They're fourth from the bottom on the happiness index. https://mwnation.com/malawi-named-the-4th-least-happiest-cou...
abigail95•30 minutes ago
Would you want to live there?
boelboel•about 1 hour ago
There's barely any mines in Rwanda btw. DRC is closer to the later in terms of exports and I wouldn't say it's doing better.
ExpertAdvisor01•about 1 hour ago
Rwanda controls significant amount of mines in eastern drc(north kivu) through the m23 rebels.
alephnerd•about 1 hour ago
Also, foreign aid. Rwanda received massive amounts of foreign aid unlike Malawi [0] and de facto colonized the DRC's mine fields [1]

[0] - https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/DT.ODA.ODAT.GN.ZS?locat...

[1] - https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/rwanda-exercises-comman...

londons_explore•about 1 hour ago
Foreign aid is rarely a gift - in almost all cases it is a business transaction. It is given as a loan, or in return for some mineral rights, or for an important UN vote, or for allegiance in a war.

For the loan cases, the terms are often unaffordable, effectively handing effective control of the entire country to the entity who has the other end of the loan - it is the modern empire-by-debt.

edbaskerville•about 1 hour ago
The Rwanda case cannot be told without Paul Kagame, one of the rare authoritarians who is also a real nation-builder, analogous to Park Chung Hee (South Korea, 1960s-1970s). He locks up his opponents but also has leveraged aid to really help socioeconomic conditions. E.g., the very close and productive collaboration with Partners in Health/Paul Farmer.
sofixa•about 1 hour ago
No.

A lot of foreign aid is direct things like food, medicine, doctors, AIDS prevention programmes, vaccines for specific things, maternal care, containment of an Ebola epidemic, etc.

Do you really think that e.g. Kenya is voting alongside EU members because the EU paid for a part of a highway between two cities in Kenya?

Then yes, there are loans and grants for infrastructure things.

> For the loan cases, the terms are often unaffordable, effectively handing effective control of the entire country to the entity who has the other end of the loan - it is the modern empire-by-debt.

That's not true. The rates are very public, and while sometimes they are on the higher end, unaffordable is a stretch, and that's how loan rates work. It is inherently risky to give loans to a developing country with high corruption rates. That's why there are also lots of direct grants or direct physical aid with stuff instead of money.

The IMF also sometimes gives loans with strict requirements on market reforms, which can be controversial. Notably in the former Soviet/Warsaw pact bloc, economic shock therapy under instruction of the IMF had some devastating short term consequences, and in some countries led to mass dubious privtisations. In most though, it paid off and led to rapid and sustained economic and social growth.

sofixa•about 1 hour ago
There are a few things to note here.

For both, around half of GDP is in the services sector. It doesn't matter that much what raw resources they export when it's a smaller portion of GDP (23% in Rwanda, 15% in Malawi). Also, almost all of those raw resources that Rwanda exports are stolen from the DRC by Rwanda-backed militias.

Foreign aid, and Rwanda's ability to position itself geopolitically as a trusted stable partner (which enables more aid and for it to get away with theft and murder) have more impact than maize vs gold.

And in the end, there are plenty of countries that have successfully developed and become less or not poor without having anything of serious value to export. From Bangladesh to the Balkans (I mean post-decolonisation Balkans, not post-Iron Curtain - it was mostly an area with subsistence farming as the main employment, disease, low rates of literacy and very low for higher education, frequent conflict and ethnic/religious tensions, few natural resources other than grain and some very limited amounts coal/minerals). If anything, it usually is the opposite, cf. the resource curse.

exe34•about 1 hour ago
The agricultural exporters probably have a lot less heavy metal in their blood.
rdtsc•about 1 hour ago
> It ranks 107th out of 180 on Transparency International’s Corruption Perceptions Index, which is middling, but not especially bad, roughly comparable to Indonesia and Brazil.

I would still guess corruption is a major reason. Sometimes the way it’s measured and how it’s reported is not accurate. People internalize corrupt practices as normal and stop viewing it as corruption. A bribe is a gift, a nepotistic appointment is “taking care of one’s family”.

It also doesn’t always make sense to compare only corruption with other countries. Some may be more corrupt but they have enough positive factors that they develop better despite the corruption.

marcosdumay•about 1 hour ago
The Tranparency International's index is a horrible measure.

It's more dependent on the press reporting corruption than of any other factor, for the extent that it measures anything real it focuses exclusively on small scale corruption, and it incredibly biased by cultural factors.

It's a mistake to use it to compare one country with another, and it's a mistake to use it to spot trends in a single place. AFAIK, it's a mistake to use it.

nradov•about 1 hour ago
It is notoriously difficult to gather accurate quantitative data on illegal or unethical activities. And the weightings in the index are rather arbitrary.
dudeinjapan•about 1 hour ago
So corrupt even the reporting of corruption is corrupt?
rdtsc•41 minutes ago
That’s also a possibility. I was mainly thinking where it’s so embedded it’s not even perceived as corruption anymore.

But yeah, what you’re saying is also done. Usually something like an anti-corruption ministry is created. Their job is to find and prosecute corruption. Guess what the most “lucrative “ and cushiest jobs are now - that’s right, the anti corruption ministry itself. Anyone doing business now has to bribe them too in addition to whoever they bribed before. And corruption goes “down” officially, and it looks good on international external metrics.

sb057•about 1 hour ago
Rwanda has prospered for the past three decades while Malawi has floundered because Rwanda is run by an effective dictator engaging in developmentalist nation-building. Malawi has no equivalent power center, and certainly none with the beneficence to try and raise up their countrymen.
alephnerd•about 1 hour ago
Rwanda also got significantly more foreign aid than Malawi [0] and other peer countries in Southern and Eastern Africa.

A lot of Rwanda's success is overstated as well as I've pointed out before [1].

A better model from an LDC perspective would probably be Uganda.

[0] - https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/DT.ODA.ODAT.GN.ZS?locat...

[1] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43375524

addaon•about 2 hours ago
"70% of Malawians live on less than $2.15 a day. Under the World Bank’s revised $3-a-day poverty line, it’s 75%."

This sounds like an extremely bimodal distribution -- a 40% increase in the cut-off line only captures 5% more of the population, so only a small number of people are in this "poor but survivable" zone, with most well under and some well over, I assume. Does this map to the usual rural/urban divide?

yk•about 1 hour ago
> “Malawi is poor because its agricultural productivity is low” is closer to a tautology than an answer.

I used to make the same error. Thing is in the natural sciences this looks like circular reasoning, but in the humanities quite commonly things just hang in thin air. Case in point, the banker looks at the poor farmer and denies credit because the guy doesn't have capital, and the farmer doesn't have capital because he can't get credit. Thing is, both sides understand that.

nikanj•about 1 hour ago
The agricultural output of Finland is dismal, with the low-quality soil, short summer and frequent cold snaps. Still doing pretty good on GDP
strken•40 minutes ago
I'm left wondering what people in Malawi think about this. I have no idea whether they'd be better than this outside perspective at analysing the factors behind slow growth, but the comparison might be interesting regardless.
forinti•about 1 hour ago
The Central African Republic, which has a low population density, lots of water and arable land is also very poor. As is South Sudan. It must be very hard to trade your way out of poverty if you are landlocked in a poor continent. All the countries in Europe are well off by world standards because there's an enormous market next-door.
ascorbic•about 1 hour ago
The question isn't "why is Malawi poor compared to European countries", it's "why is Malawi poor compared to other countries in a similar – or worse – situation"
forinti•about 1 hour ago
Look at the map in the article. It's a lot lighter in the middle than around the coastline. Niger, Chad, Burundi, South Sudan, CAR. These are all very poor. Malawi is not really an exception.
nine_k•44 minutes ago
Merchant caravans are known from ancient times. If there was something valuable to sell, there likely would be a way to transport it to a nearest port (even if abroad) and still make a profit.
WillAdams•about 2 hours ago
If one wants to vote with one's wallet:

https://www.heifer.org/our-work/where-we-work/malawi

Currently being matched 5 to 1.

pavlov•about 2 hours ago
The conclusion of the article is interesting:

> 'The unit of analysis for "why is X poor" may be the political coalition, not the country.'

So maybe the real question here is not about the absolute poverty, but the derivative: "Why hasn't Malawi seen meaningful growth for 30 years?" — And the answer could be surprisingly related to first-world countries like Finland that also have experienced decades of stunted growth.

Like Malawi, Finland has functional and stable multiparty politics. Like Malawi, Finland's politicians have spent decades locally optimizing for minor benefits towards their preferred flavor of the median voter (right wing cuts taxes a bit, left wing improves benefits a bit, nobody offers anything transformative).

Too much stability at the wrong time might be a slow curse.

yorwba•about 1 hour ago
Finnish GDP per capita is growing much, much faster than Malawi's: https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD?locat...
tdb7893•about 1 hour ago
Is Finland doing that badly? It seems like a good place to live
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ultrablack•34 minutes ago
Google:

Based on recent 2026 data, the average IQ in Malawi is frequently estimated to be between approximately 59.7 and 64.58.

There’s your answer.

WhaleClub•6 minutes ago
And not a single mention of that in the article. Future generations will refuse to keep the egalitarian blank slate blinders on as it becomes more and more painfully obvious that all the racists and eugenicists from the 20th century were correct.
vondur•about 1 hour ago
Malawi needs to drop tobacco as their main export. Tobacco is hard on the soil and requires more fertilizer and acidifies the soil. Swapping out tobacco for something like a specialty coffee would be far better (and Rwanda has done that) Bringing some hard specie with Coffee would really help and the foreign aid could help them make the transition, which would take a few years to get going.
Joker_vD•about 1 hour ago
> Malawi needs to drop tobacco as their main export

That's the product they have most comparative advantage in producing. You're literally suggesting they should cut their income down, and try to get better at something else.

vondur•41 minutes ago
Tobacco is a crop that is experiencing declining demand. Neighboring Rwanda has built up their coffee export business, and Malawi could too. And as I mentioned it’s less harsh on the soil which is and added benefit.
AnimalMuppet•44 minutes ago
Well, if the thing you're best at is something that doesn't make enough money, then maybe it is time to become better at something else.

But as you say, at least in the interim, that means reducing income, which is a really hard thing to suggest.

black6•26 minutes ago
> Malawi has also long been a darling of donors. Malawi’s aid per capita in 2023 was roughly 2.5x the global average.

Maybe the population doesn't feel like it needs to be productive, if they're continuing to receive such generous largesses. Isn't that the goal of UBI for developed nations? People should be able to pursue their passions and not have to worry about the necessities of life?

erxam•about 2 hours ago
Regarding Rwanda, I think we're forgetting that a large part of their success comes from their plundering of the Congo's resources, mineral and otherwise.

There have been two gigantic continent-wide wars over the Congo, for fuck's sake.

csomar•about 1 hour ago
Malawi is poor because there is no reason for it to grow above the normal growth rate. Countries usually find themselves in a high growth situation if they are at the cross-road of major trade or geopolitics (ie: Singapore, UAE, korea, Taiwan, etc.) Of course the opportunity has to be cultivated but it has to be there in the first place.

There isn't much in Africa especially in the part of Malawi. They are not even coastal (they are landlocked) which makes their situation even worse.

nine_k•40 minutes ago
Botswana is also landlocked, and not very fertile. They have diamond mines though.
alephnerd•about 1 hour ago
This is a dumb take that highlights the common lack of experience with Africa that arises with anyone who writes about it - Malawi was always much poorer than the rest of East Africa as can be seen by the 1990 HDI [0].

Starting from a lower base as well as weak institutions, weak capital markets, and political instability during the transition to democracy lead Malawi to underperform.

Additionally, Rwanda received massive amounts of foreign aid to a degree that Malawi and other African nations never saw [1]

Unsurprising that this is an OpenPhilanthropy blog.

[0] - https://countryeconomy.com/hdi?year=1990

[1] - https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/DT.ODA.ODAT.GN.ZS?locat...

dirasieb•about 2 hours ago
malawi is poor because of colonialism, it used to be rich and prosperous before europeans went there and destroyed everything
ascorbic•about 1 hour ago
So were lots of other countries that went on to grow a lot faster. That's what the article is about.
mdasen•about 1 hour ago
The point of the article isn't "Malawi is poor compared to Europe," but rather comparing Malawi to other countries that were similarly colonized and how other colonized countries have done a lot better than Malawi - despite often having more adversity in their post-colonial existence.

Yes, being exploited will leave you in a bad state, but it's also important to learn why other similarly colonized countries have done a lot better over the past 30 years - what are the conditions and policies that improve things

tptacek•about 1 hour ago
The article discusses this, and compares it to other labor-extractive colonial states in subsaharan Africa. If there were an easy explanation, it appears like it would be in the article, which is pretty expansive.
WhatsTheBigIdea•about 2 hours ago
Can you cite a reference for this assertion? I'd like to read about it if true.
JumpCrisscross•9 minutes ago
> Can you cite a reference for this assertion?

It's not. The current vogue in the American social sciences is projecting America's Black-White / colonist-colonised dualism onto the world regardless of the facts on the ground.

geneticf8•about 1 hour ago
didn't europeans colonize and destroy everything in the United States?