PlayStation can delete all your digital games after 3 years of inactivity (EU)

182

tthewebguyd about 5 hours ago 84 commentsRead Article on flatpanelshd.com

DE version is available. Content is displayed in original English for accuracy.

⚡ Community Insights

Discussion Sentiment

53% Positive

Analyzed from 3007 words in the discussion.

Discussion (84 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

glimshe•about 4 hours ago

I was surprised to come back to my XBOX account after 10 years in the US and see that very old digital purchases from previous console generations were not only still available, but actually playable on the latest console through transparent emulation! They did a pretty good job with that.

PaulHoule•about 3 hours ago

Whatever you think about Microsoft, they are a good steward of their platforms and go to extremes to maintain backwards compatibility -- even if they are always moving your cheese in the UI.

amlib•about 3 hours ago

Except for the hundred thousands if not millions of people who lost their Minecraft account due to the way Microsoft handled multiple successive account migrations, also including the many accounts that were stolen due to lax security.

And since digital ownership legislation is a joke consumers have pretty much no recourse.

0cf8612b2e1e•about 3 hours ago

Beat me to it. I am still incredibly salty about losing my “lifetime” license to Minecraft. I really am curious to see some of the changes that have happened since I last played (when still owned by Notch), but I refuse to repurchase it.

giancarlostoro•about 3 hours ago

Or when they decided to wipe people's Hotmail accounts. Now some random person has my original hotmail that I had since the 90s through to the 2010s... Presumably, this person now indirectly has a ton of my original accounts for different services I can no longer access... thanks Microsoft.

arjie•about 2 hours ago

Haha, I was one of these people. I'm unreasonably salty about this (given the monetary loss is not high and I got a lot of playtime out of the game back then), especially because I also had one of those Alpha keys unused as well!

ThrowawayTestr•about 1 hour ago

You had years to move your Minecraft account

reaperducer•about 2 hours ago

Whatever you think about Microsoft, they are a good steward of their platforms and go to extremes to maintain backwards compatibility

This is the same company that closed its e-book store, and everyone lost the libraries they'd worked so hard to curate.

Xeoncross•about 4 hours ago

You know, all those people making new n64, playstation, and gameboy titles might be onto something. Apart from steam, I don't think I've heard anything but bad news from modern consoles.

echelon•about 3 hours ago

Huge capital overhead. Exhausting mid-lifecycle crunch that makes or breaks the next gen. Multiple giants.

Meanwhile Steam just casually absorbing everything. It doesn't matter that it's porous.

And now suddenly - hardware costs you can't tip toe schedule around.

The console business is shitty.

PaulHoule•about 3 hours ago

Talk to console gamers and they still think the PC is sweaty and playing on the PC is like putting your hands in the toilet. I mean, I remember the 1990s when kids were playing flight simulators with this huge plastic joysticks that were always falling apart and needed to be calibrated every five minutes. It's not like that anymore, with Steam Big Picture and either an XBOX ONE or PS4/5 controller your PC is a better console.

The main problem is that, ex. the Steam Controller, nobody can make a decent game controller except for console vendors and when the console vendors go down somebody will have to step up.

I just can't believe the PS5 has sold as many units as it has with just 15 exclusive games, many of which are remakes, even remakes of remakes. That reputation that the PC platform is too sweaty has taken a long long time to die and it doesn't help that ACER and such are coming out with handhelds that are maximum sweat (boot into a Windows Desktop with 10x too small fonts) compared to the consumer electronics experience of the Steam Deck.

skgough•about 3 hours ago

> The main problem is that, ex. the Steam Controller, nobody can make a decent game controller except for console vendors and when the console vendors go down somebody will have to step up.

I used to only play on DualShock 4s and even skipped the DualSense because I just loved my DualShock that much.

I use an 8bitDo now and it is better in every way I care about. 8bitDo does not make consoles.

flaunf221•about 2 hours ago

> ex. the Steam Controller, nobody can make a decent game controller except for console vendors

Reading this feels feels like you are the one that is still in 1990s.

Third party controllers have long surpassed the ones from console vendors. Standard console controllers still continue to use potentiometers for sticks. Even pro versions that cost over a hundred euro still use them.

user2722•about 2 hours ago

Meanwhile to play PS5 games like TMNT you can't use PS4 controllers. This is not a customer focused approach.

LoganDark•about 3 hours ago

To me, the Steam Controller feels like holding a rectangle, not nearly as ergonomic as, say, an Xbox controller. It is otherwise decent though.

wing-_-nuts•about 3 hours ago

>Talk to console gamers and they still think the PC is sweaty and playing on the PC is like putting your hands in the toilet.

Eh, as someone who owns and plays on both pc and console, the simple truth of the matter is that playing on console is, for the most part, better 'bang for the buck'. You can reliably purchase a console and a budget linux laptop and both will reliably fill their respective niches for the next decade. PC gaming, in my experience, requires a much higher budget, and this was even before the modern pricing madness.

Consoles also had much wider support for couch coop than PC did, so it was a more social experience, and to be blunt, PC gaming has a pretty bad problem with cheating that I simply never experienced on console.

Like I said, I play and enjoy both. I can afford to do so now, but I do feel bad for teens today because even consoles are getting crazy expensive.

buran77•about 3 hours ago

> Apart from steam, I don't think I've heard anything but bad news from modern consoles.

Gabe is in his mid 60s, I'm prepared that in the next decade or so there will be a change of guard at Valve and the slow train of enshittification will get moving.

P.S. There's been a lot of groupthink and bandwagoning for Valve, ignoring all the dirt under the rug. But at the end of the day, by comparison, they are the best behaving in the field.

add-sub-mul-div•about 3 hours ago

The company that gave up making games because there was more money to be had from inserting itself as a middleman into a previously open platform does not deserve any adoration.

r053bud•43 minutes ago

This is categorically untrue. In addition to the games listed below, they are actively developing "Deadlock" which is a pretty rad game in my opinion.

ecshafer•about 2 hours ago

Counter Strike and DOTA aren't games?

derideor•about 3 hours ago

Then don't buy it through steam. Just buy it through a third party like greenmangaming. Valve gets zero cut there.

Ntrails•about 3 hours ago

They still make and support games :)

CamperBob2•about 3 hours ago

The market demanded a middleman. Would you prefer an Epic or Microsoft monopoly?

amiga-workbench•about 3 hours ago

Honestly, there's never been a better time to be writing games for those platforms. The SDK's are much improved from the proprietary stuff available at the time and the hardware is very well understood. People have been pulling off some utter witchcraft on the N64.

crote•about 3 hours ago

Best of all: there's no hardware rat race.

The N64 is never going to get any faster, and emulators can run on just about any potato these days. People have realistic expectations of what the platform can do, so there's no need to spend insane effort making the graphics look better. It's always going to look kinda crappy, and that is Just Fine.

This lets game developers focus on the actual gameplay itself. No "Generic Shooter vol. 26 - now with slightly prettier water!", but innovative stuff focusing on the narrative and on novel gameplay elements.

echelon•about 3 hours ago

Kaze and James Lambert are amazing. Kaze's new Mario game looks better than a first party Nintendo title, and James's engines pushes the console to its absolute limits.

I've been thinking about giving it a go myself. It's such a fun and nostalgic console, and the limitations are fun constraints.

The code archeology is really cool too. Seeing Rare's Dinosaur Planet boot up and play after being a lost title. Decompiling all the original titles. Building sequels to Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask. It's such a fun scene.

Then there's Analogue 3D and ModRetro too, which make it fun to play as physical hardware.

ColdStream•about 1 hour ago

It was last night, after seeing Linux on the Atari Jaguar, I was just pondering over that whole scene.

Then I decided to throw on Metal Slug X, a classic of the Neo Geo. Then it struck me, "Could I attempt porting this to Jaguar?!".

It would be a great start project to familurise myself with this older stuff again. They both have a 12MHz 68k, it is just that the graphics and audio cores are different. Would probably have to base it off the CD version so that the memory addressing is already handled (it loaded all assets into 1MB RAM - twice the jaguars storage).

It doesn't sound impossible. But the Jags RISC chips were notorious for being a little slow due to limited cache space, so it might not be so straight forward.

Regardless, the scene is jumping.

dml2135•about 2 hours ago

Wait, someone actually brought N64 Dinosaur Planet to life? I gotta check this out...

RajT88•about 3 hours ago

Even crap emulator handhelds are getting pretty dang good (if you can get the right software stack).

homeslice69•about 3 hours ago

While Microsoft may not be as bad on this as Sony so far, they have certainly shown a willingness to revoke access to digital games. For example- in an effort to push users to the newer fifa titles with microtransactions, they quietly removed the ability to redownload purchased digital copies of older fifa games. For anyone who might've temporarily uninstalled the game to free up space, there was suddenly no way to get the game on your machine again.

thewebguyd•about 2 hours ago

That's almost certainly due to EA's licensing agreement with FIFA rather than Microsoft's decision. Similar to how you can no longer purchase older Forza games due to the licensing for use of the cars expiring.

0cf8612b2e1e•about 3 hours ago

That sounds like deletion by proxy. If there is no way to redownload it, seeing the title listed on your account does little good.

al_borland•about 4 hours ago

I'm not in the EU, but had 2 accounts with Sony/Playstation (I'm pretty sure both sat unused for more than 3 years). I tried to delete one and it seemed impossible. The FAQ said to call support. I called, waiting for 45 minutes, and they said they couldn't help me and hung up before I could respond.

While I believe they would delete a user's games, I don't know if they would actually willingly give up holding on to customer data.

My guess is this is more of a CYA incase they want to clean up accounts at some point, rather than something they actively do.

throwaway2027•about 4 hours ago

> While I believe they would delete a user's games, I don't know if they would actually willingly give up holding on to customer data.

So basically you get worst of both worlds, great.

kleiba2•about 2 hours ago

I'm getting at the top of my browser window:

> Your browser is not Javascript enable or you have turn it off. We recommend you to activate for better security reason

It's reassuring to know that their copy is not AI-generated.

hoppp•about 1 hour ago

I hope they send warning letters to log in. Mine been idle for over a year and I don't have it right now.. but I paid for those games so it would be scammy to remove without warning.

Does it cost them money to keep my purchases logged? I don't think so.

csrse•about 2 hours ago

I am not sure, but I feel that many of these "Sony bad" type of conversations appear close to something unfavorable being discussed about Xbox. Am I imagining it? The Playstation issue discussed here is certainly not new, but the timing is interesting.

golemotron•about 1 hour ago

I'd just be happy if companies were required to call them licensed and forbidden to call them sold or owned by the buyer.

adolph•about 2 hours ago

This isn't surprising given how different businesses may value a payment against an ongoing obligation to customers. @patio11 had a good podcast about this "Cash received is not revenue earned" last April.

  What the GoDaddy CEO said in many interviews and investor presentations is: 
  "Look, since we're not going out of business, and since the cost of serving 
  domain names is essentially the same whether we're serving a million of them 
  versus a hundred million of them, you should really treat this as a 
  cash-and-carry business. So all of the money that comes in this year is our 
  revenue, regardless of this massive balance sheet item that says deferred 
  revenue." What sophisticated investors looking at GoDaddy said was, "Well, 
  no. You do have to still keep running the business. And so from my 
  perspective, it looks like GoDaddy is incredibly levered. You've got so much 
  debt on the books. The debt isn't to a bank or to a private credit fund–it's 
  just to your customers. But oh goodness, is there a lot of debt. And since 
  that debt must get satisfied before US equity holders get the residual value 
  of the company, we are not willing to extend equity investment at the 
  valuation you think you're worth."

https://www.complexsystemspodcast.com/episodes/cash-received...

mindcrash•about 3 hours ago

Closing inactive accounts in the EU is due to (interpretation of) certain provisions set in the GDPR (e.g. article 5 - https://gdpr-info.eu/art-5-gdpr/) and Sony is not alone, many services in the EU automatically close and delete orphaned accounts after a given amount of time, and if they are international ones even when they don't outside of the EU.

If implemented correctly the affected person is also warned/notified several times by email before this is going to happen, so you have enough time to log in at least once and prevent it (and also extend the time frame again).

fabian2k•about 3 hours ago

Those articles don't require deletion in this case, in my non-lawyer opinion. There is still a purpose to keeping the user's personal information here. Sony needs that information to be able to grant the user access to the content they bought.

There's a difference here between an account that hasn't been used and doesn't hold anything of value and an account like this that holds items that were bought.

handoflixue•about 3 hours ago

The problem with email is that it's an email address from 3+ years ago, which means there's a much higher chance of it being out of date - are you still using XxCoolDude67xX from high school?

Consoles area also marketed heavily towards older teenagers and younger adults, who are exactly the ones unlikely to maintain a consistent email address.

And of course if your email provided decides to cut you off, or goes out of business, or you used a university email...

tencentshill•about 2 hours ago

Good, customer data should be a liability and they should be incentivized to delete it as early as feasible, or not store it at all when possible. It's your data, not theirs.

nephihaha•31 minutes ago

You will own nothing and be bitterly unhappy.

Maybe.

ChrisArchitect•about 3 hours ago

Physical disc production ending in Jan 2028 for new games on PlayStation

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48745456

BiteCode_dev•about 3 hours ago

And consumers will cry about it for about 5 minutes, then go back to reward the company.

When HP started making printer cartridges that expired even when they were still full, people complained—then bought more.

When Microsoft let the web stagnate with IE6, people complained, then turned around and did the same thing with Chrome.

When Apple deliberately put a bug in the iPhone that caused the Home button to fail, pushing people to buy the next model, people got upset—and then bought the next one anyway. I'm amazed nobody remembers that one; it was such a huge deal at the time. And there is not a single link to articles about it anymore.

When Adobe switched to mandatory Creative Cloud subscriptions, plenty of users protested, but most professionals stayed.

When Amazon remotely deleted books from people's Kindles (including 1984), it was a scandal for a month, and then... nothing.

When we found out PRISM existed, users were worried for a few months, then went right back to filling those platforms with their personal data.

When Google allowed fraudulent DMCA takedowns, shut down accounts with no appeal, and censored its search engine, there was a brief outcry, then it was back to business as usual.

When Sony put a bloody ROOTKIT on its music CDs (!!!!), people grumbled for five minutes and kept giving them money.

These companies have no reason to stop. We never make them regret anything.

I should make a website to save those for posterity, so that at least we have a track record of all the things they get away with because we let them.

We're screwed—and we deserve it.

jojogeo•about 2 hours ago

Here here. 100% in agreement, people seem to have forgotten that the majority hold the bargaining power. You'll always have people who cross "strike lines", but by and large if the entire user base simply said; no, and walked; the world would definitely be a better place, in so many ways.

I don't hold France as a shining example of humanity; but by-christ if they get upset they actually take those feet, one in front of the other and fight tooth and nail against `$thing`. Even if they don't "win", they /don't go quietly/.

red_admiral•about 2 hours ago

The Sony one led to legal action and penalties. Also Microsoft themselves released an update that kicked the rootkit out.

BiteCode_dev•about 2 hours ago

If illegal actions are just reverted and compensated by a fine, then they are just legal for a fee

lowbloodsugar•about 2 hours ago

I never bought an HP product ever again. My laser is a Brother. Scanner is Epson. But yeah, for the most part all that is true.

handoflixue•about 3 hours ago

Switch to Brother laser jet printers - I hear about them every time HP comes up, I've had mine for years, it is a lovely solution

Tons of people switched from IE6 to Chrome; IE is a dead browser. These days I'd recommend Firefox.

Is there something wrong with the iPhone as of today? It sounds like the bug got fixed in response to outcry, especially if they went and scrubbed all traces of the event - that seems like a good outcome?

Adobe stock is down almost 50% (42.24%) in the past year - I dare say a lot of people got sick of their shit. I have no clue what professionals use, but GIMP works fine for my amateur edits.

Like, c'mon, change very clearly does happen. It's just slow and uneven.

If you actually cared about change, I feel like you'd maybe list a few of the cool alternatives out there and actually help people make that transition. https://xkcd.com/1053/ - people do actually have to be taught about these things, not everyone knows what the alternatives are!

BiteCode_dev•about 2 hours ago

I did, but that doesn't change AT ALL my initial point.

People still buy HP printers.

It's still a popular brand.

CamperBob2•about 3 hours ago

That one, I don't remember either. Are you sure you aren't confusing it with Batterygate?

But yes: point taken, these companies have absolutely no incentive to behave any better than they have in the past.

BiteCode_dev•about 2 hours ago

Oh no, I remember well. At some point, everyone at the software home button on their phone setup, because the physical button was sometimes working and sometimes not.

Apple issued a statement saying it was a hardware failure and there was nothing they could do.

A hacker later on proved they were lying by patching the software and showing the problem went away.

That's why I'm scrapbooking every article about the trump administration right now. This time period is so wild people will doubt it really existed.

I will not be gaslighted again. This world is crazy, and people have a terrible memory.

j1elo•about 2 hours ago

"Error 53" from 2016, maybe?

* Error 53: Exposing An Apple Scandal -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWE4mwhjNY4

* ‘Error 53’ fury mounts as Apple software update threatens to kill your iPhone 6 -- https://www.theguardian.com/money/2016/feb/05/error-53-apple...

* Apple apologises for iPhone 'error 53' and issues fix -- https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35611756

Mindwipe•about 4 hours ago

"Sony correctly implements GDPR requirements in the EU" is a less exciting headline I guess.

guax•about 4 hours ago

That is not how gdpr works. If you have a legitimate reason to hold the data. You can. Ensuring people have access to purchases is a very legitimate reason.

computomatic•about 4 hours ago

Is there evidence that European courts have sided with that? “We’re holding onto all your data indefinitely just in case you log in again several years from now” seems to be the antithesis of GDPR and I can’t discern the difference between that and what you’re suggesting.

I believe EU has dug their own hole here. And the best move would be to pass more legislation to explicitly require the retention (and transfer, ideally) of purchased digital goods.

buran77•about 3 hours ago

> Is there evidence that European courts have sided with that?

Is there evidence of the contrary? Maybe any store can just delete your personal data right after charging your card and claim GDPR prevents them from shipping your product.

Silly arguments work both ways. You just picked the one that confirms your bias.

GDPR under no circumstances forces processors to delete everything, it defines legitimate interest. Retaining a person's purchases is as legitimate as it gets so the data can be retained for as long as the purchase is valid. And the license itself isn't even the user's personal data, it's just a license, so Sony could give the option to export that license to be used later - even in a cryptographically secure format that can only work if e.g. the account is created with the same email address. If they delete the personal data and throw out the baby with the water, it's not GDPR forcing them to do it.

cccbbbaaa•about 3 hours ago

No need to wait for the courts’ opinions: controllers must keep the data for a limited amount of time (which can be something like “3 years after the last connection”) under GDPR article 5(1)e.

BiteCode_dev•about 3 hours ago

The GDPR does not say that controllers must always delete personal data on request. Article 17(1)(a) — erasure is required only when:

"the personal data are no longer necessary in relation to the purposes for which they were collected or otherwise processed"

https://gdpr-info.eu/art-17-gdpr

It's like the cookie banner all over again. This law never, ever required a cookie banner.

The big companies are master in malicious compliance that benefit them, and let them blame the EU for it.

Rules of thumbs, international billion dollars company should be assumed to be the ones being the bad guys until proven otherwise. They have lost the benefit of the doubt decades ago.

cccbbbaaa•about 3 hours ago

And that data must be held for a limited amount of time under GDPR article 5(1)e. Sony’s policy is very much a consequence of this.