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Discussion (17 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
I’m still hesitant to interpret this as “thinking ahead” without at least seeing some more back-and-forth in the literature first, though. This just seems like one of those spots where it makes sense to give other researchers some time to come up with additional hypotheses to explain the observations instead of focusing on the first one anyone proposes in isolation.
And that's all it needs. Not reasoning.
Babbage’s Analytical Engine didn’t actually analyze anything, and terminology hadn’t gotten any more clear-cut since.
A lot of that signal could be much simpler stuff. This task is hard. The agent seems stuck. The tests are getting better. The current approach looks promising. All of those things make future success easier to predict without the model actually "knowing what comes next" in any strong sense.
Also, their 25 steps are agent turns, not 25 code edits. The median run had something like 52 steps but only two edits, and the program label stays the same between edits. So "25 steps ahead" may sometimes just mean basically the same codebase, with a bunch of reading and test output in between.
So yeah, I'd say it's consistent with Sutskever's view. But "consistent with" and "confirmatory of" are doing very different amounts of work here.
Finally there is evidence that the model kinda actually knows the correct token spend on each method.
But this has only been shown on simple tasks, so I think this paper is still quite neat. The interesting thing is that they show "future horizon length" varies across models.
Of course, an interesting question what part of this internal computation is modeling for the future compared to guessing based on the given context (the past).
> you're suggesting there's some kind of information flow from the anticipated body of the script back up to the imports
Yes, I am suggesting this. I don't think it is possible to write programs without either anticipating what you're going to write down below before you get there, or else being able to go back and edit what you already wrote.
Of course agent harnesses allow the latter, but raw models without a harness can still do an exceptionally, superhumanly, good job of straight-line programming with no editing.
> Infer imports from context, infer body from context + imports. All strictly causal.
Of course it's causal, that's kind of a reductive way to look at it.
Just infer the entire program from context and then type what you inferred.
Are these probes effectively run in parallel? The way this reads is more about predicting a future outcome than keeping the current token relevant based on past tokens.
Just below your question is a very confidently incorrect take about "parroting"... So, not obvious at all, at least for some people :)
Then how do humans create something 'creative'—something that didn't exist before? I think it might be because the process of simplifying the complex system of nature differs between individuals. The data being learned now is all labeled by humans and simplified through human cognition. Within that kind of information, creativity seems hard to emerge.
Ultimately, with data that already contains interpretation, no matter how much you repeat the learning, it just becomes an encyclopedia that only explores within human knowledge, repeating predictions within human interpretation. So I wonder if we actually need a different encoder that interprets raw data—not based on human interpretation.
In reality, what changed Newton's absolute time to Einstein's relativity was a conclusion derived simply from observing the world. Newton's interpretation was supported by a lot of evidence in its time. If an AI studied all the medieval data from Newton's era, could it actually come up with the theory of relativity?
I'm always curious about this. I think AI is already very good at coding and will soon become better than humans. Logical structures are ultimately human interpretations, and reasoning within that framework is something AI can probably do more logically than humans. In other words, once humans create the framework, stacking the logical Jenga blocks within it—AI will be better at that.
But true creativity lies in breaking the framework itself, and I'm skeptical about whether AI can do that. The encoder also seems insufficient. There will likely be limits. I might be trapped in my own biases.
But the limitations of the current approach seem too clear to ignore.
When I look at the approach of these papers, it feels like an argument that adding shadows that imitate the world will eventually make them become the objects themselves.
I think the text, code, images, papers, and conversations that humans leave behind are not the world itself, but rather shadows of the world that have passed through human cognition and language. No matter how much you learn from those shadows, whether that leads to the ability to actually engage with the objects themselves seems like a separate issue.
I feel like something different is needed. But I'm not intellectually sharp enough to reason this through logically.this is just my intuition
No. That's simple PR hype. Parrotry is not reasoning.