DE version is available. Content is displayed in original English for accuracy.
Advertisement
Advertisement
⚡ Community Insights
Discussion Sentiment
48% Positive
Analyzed from 1718 words in the discussion.
Trending Topics
#goal#context#agent#compaction#model#problem#stop#claude#long#doesn
Discussion (34 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
So for long running tasks I'll do
For some reason, codex compaction is like black magic. I’ve never felt like I can just one one continuous thread with other models, Claude I carefully curate when I compact
Even if it doesn't fit in the context window, the model can search through past turns and sanity check if something doesn't seem to be going right, or be prompted to follow an early message, "when starting on a new item, review the first message for how we should approach this"
Much better to spend tokens breaking the task into chunks, documenting and storing them durably, then executing each one in clean context and just /clear after.
It’s a similar concept to compaction, just planned in advance. Much much more effective, and doesn’t burn tokens and time (“wall-clock”, Claude) doing the compaction.
With swival.dev you can use long sessions without ever doing any manual compaction or reset, even with Claude models.
You don't need to go down the rabbit hole of crazy workflows, but to avoid slop:
- Break down the work into tasks
- New context. Create a plan for one task.
- New context. Implement the plan.
- New context. /code-review the implementation
- New context. Fix the review findings.
- Repeat for next task.
I do this with Fable 5, and the quality is consistently quite good. If the context goes over 50%, the quality will become crap and you end up with 4 duplicates of the same thing across the codebase. Letting a current session review its own work is like asking a student to grade their own paper.
Just like with real work, it's valuable to break down big tasks into small tasks that you can knock over in a single session. When a session does start getting too big, you just need to ask the agent to reply with a comprehensive handover report and paste it into a new session.
This is overselling it. In all implementations of this that I’ve seen, a more correct phrasing is “won’t stop until it pinky-promises it achieved your goal”.
It usually relies on something like a hook that refuses to let the agent stop unless it includes a “promise sentinel”, which is basically the model having to include “I swear I’m done” in the response (usually as a Markdown comment so the user doesn’t see it). If that sentinel isn’t in the response, the hook rejects the completion and hands it back to the agent (sometimes it also restates the goal to keep it focused). It’s useful for sure, but it fails many times for obvious reasons.
More robust implementations use the hook to spawn another agent that verifies the goal is achieved, but that too isn’t prefect and sometimes performs worse.
Of course if you have a problem that can be deterministically verified, you could have the hook run this verification instead, but this is usually not the case (and even when it is, agents will often cheat the verification e.g. by deleting a test file).
I haven't really found a good way to solve this other than:
1. Produce an initial PR fulfilling all the requirements I knew at the start
2. Chat with the model about any weird snippets I notice and talk through alternatives
3. Simplify anything that I think is overengineered or plain unncessary
Sometimes I restart all over with more precise requirements but then it sometimes makes different mistakes/takes different shortcuts.
In practice the earlier I review the better the end result imo, so /goal seems very unproductive to me?
/goal is a gimmick where you run a "parent" agent on top that runs the agent on a loop until the it decides to stop, just prompting it "nope, not done yet, continue".
1. Read X feature of Y and tell me when you fully understand it (if there's any detail missing in the summary, repeat until the context is primed)
2. What time is it?
3. /goal Spend X minutes from $time writing a technical design doc on $feature. There must not be any vague language or ambiguity in the document. Read carry_forward_requirements.md and testing_best_practices.md and explicitly incorporate them into the document you write. The document should be executable for a contextless implementer when done and include specific code and document references and changes needed. Spend the full X minutes working on and reviewing this document - do not quit early and wait
Even just spending 10 minutes forcing GPT to write a design doc results in much more robust plans than plan mode, in my experience, and saves time I would spend iterating on the initial plan mode draft anyway.
Hmm, I feel like this is akin to making a recursive function have a exit condition not based on what it actually did/found, but based on how long time it took.
I'm always using /goal with explicit goals that the agent needs to achieve. Time-bounding them wouldn't make sense, I want something specific done regardless of how long time it takes.
So instead I'd put goals on what the design/architecture needs to achieve, and for the model to continuously check the outcome against these, then finish when everything is achieved. Doesn't really matter if it takes 10 minutes or 10 hours, which for me is a bit the point of /goal in the first place, otherwise I'd just use the agent normally.
Otherwise time boxing is both going to help stop entities from wandering off into the weeds. And also communicate expectations from the commissioner about the expected effort levels and output quality requirements.
Empirically in human world, get very different results when an employee, particularly a junior, is asked to spend 1/2 a day on a work package, a week or are left completely to their own devices.
I find explicit time bounds are useful for tasks like this, otherwise the LLM will almost certainly return too early.
Simply starting in the correct part of the search space is probably the biggest predictor of success. Forcing one big loop to fight its way through all the hypotheticals from zero looks like a dead end for many practical scenarios, regardless of how powerful the model is. I think you could draw some analogies to humans here.
I have found that delegating deep research to a simple tool call is the best way to ground the agent in complex domains. If you make the main agent loop carry the weight of this research, it's going to do a really shitty job because of how the RLHF tries to preserve context and get an answer to the user quickly. As a tool, you may find the agent invokes multiple rounds of research consecutively without realizing it has incurred billions of tokens of consumption. Many of the tokens are wasted when generating independent hypotheses and subsequently investigating them, but the point is that you sampled 10-100x search space before getting serious about mutating the environment. The tradeoff seems worth it in a lot of cases. Correctness >> Time >> Money.
[0] https://neos-server.org/neos/
Offering freelance estimates for CSS design changes before frameworks were around was a problem.