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#ukraine#russia#war#news#wars#failure#iran#troops#die#modern

Discussion (1 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

oggreen•about 16 hours ago
In WW2 thousands of troops could die in a single day and we wouldn't know their names until months or years later. Today a single troop dies and it is the first story on the national news. Millions of civilians also died, just the amount of soldier deaths would be the equivalent of 2-3 September 11s (worldwide) every day for a period of 6 years.

So we say "war" but modern conflicts are absolutely nothing compared to what has happened historically. Even though these new "wars" don't seem to have the same definitive results, the alternative could be much, much worse. We're much better off with the bomb critical sites, apply sanctions and political pressure methods vs. the send entire generations off to die methods of old.

spacebanana7•about 16 hours ago
The “special military operation” euphemism that both the US/Russia used in Iran/Ukraine does have a degree of truth.

These wars are really military engagements with directional objectives rather than truly existential wars with binary outcomes.

Modern wars really resemble Rome’s Germanic wars more than the Punic ones.

bojan•about 15 hours ago
Russia's goal is direct annexation of about quarter of the Ukrainian territory and installing a lifelong puppet regime to control the other three quarters. Ukrainians stand to lose not just their voice and any semblance of economic prosperity, but also their very identity.

With the exception of extreme cases like Gaza, it doesn't get more binary than that.

stasomatic•about 8 hours ago
I am from Ukraine, been stateside since the late '80s, but visited Kiyv and my hometown of Odessa once a decade ago. I am far removed. So many perished on both sides, but we can do nothing but stand by. Can't ask Ukraine to surrender, can't let Russia to get away with this, there is no RTB while VP is running the theater, while the dead are piling up. It's a forever war at this point. Tell me it's not and there is something to look forward to. My spouse is from Russia and can't even visit her homeland to see her aging parents. Semi-annual meetups in Turkey or the UAE, but nobody's getting younger.
spacebanana7•about 15 hours ago
From Ukraine's perspective it's existential for sure. Russia however, just revises its objectives every few months according to how well/badly its prospects on the battlefield are looking.
spwa4•about 15 hours ago
Russia's goals have far evolved over the course of the war, and started out comically ridiculous, prompting a great many people to ask questions about the information "bubble" around Putin. Over the past year, I believe most people would agree Russia has lost a LOT of ground when it comes to their war aims, even if not that much territory.

2014: seize Crimea (success, although it no longer serves any purpose) and Sevastopol (total failure, Sevastopol can no longer serve the Russian black sea fleet, and when it comes to the other goal: keep NATO out of the black sea, it's an even bigger failure. Russia has lost control of the skies above the black sea completely and are losing control over the sea of Azov, by withdrawing air defenses. Now go look on the map where the sea of Azov is to see the magnitude of this failure), prevent Ukraine from approaching NATO and EU (complete failure is putting it very mildly), keep Ukraine unstable (succeeded, until Euromaidan revolution, ie. actually this is a failure)

2022: maintain control over Crimea (looks to be failing, as in Ukraine still controls Crimea's water supply), build a land bridge to Crimea (successfull, except that they can't use their land bridge for anything), seize control over Ukraine's government ("denazify" Ukraine), demilitarize Ukraine (as in Ukraine accepts no to have an army. Obviously total and complete failure), and prevent Ukraine and others from coming closer to NATO (obviously total failure, and not just in Ukraine)

In June 2026, ie. about 4 weeks ago, Russia once again confirmed these goals.

Oh and they were going to do this in 3 days. Then in 3 weeks. Then in 2 months. Then they stopped making predictions. Today is day 1608 of their 3-day attempt.

enopod_•about 15 hours ago
For Ukraine it's very much an existential war. If they lose, Ukraine will cease to exist. The only way of winning is, well, winning this war. It is also very much a real war, with hundreds of thousands of deaths on both sides, a true massacre not seen in Europe since WW2.

Trumps stupid war on Iran on the other hand is really just some air strikes, and Iran can win by just not losing, which is easy, because the US will not invade.

hackinthebochs•about 15 hours ago
It's interesting how casually we replace concern for the population with concern for the political entity. No, the Ukrainian identity will not cease to exist with the replacement of the political entity.
prmph•about 8 hours ago
It may not be a lot of dying at once, but some modern wars are rivaling these catastrophic wars of old in casualties.

By some counts there have already been at least a million casualties in the Ukraine war, and in Gaza there is probably 100,000 casualties now (military + civilian). And, the conflicts in the eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo over the decades have produced about 5–5.4 million casualties, although accumulated over decades rather than in a single war.

So modern conflicts may be lower intensity and lest existential, but they can be every bit as deadly.

mewpmewp2•about 15 hours ago
I mean Russia definitely keeps losing very many soldiers every day, I don't think that is comparable at all. It's completely different from US vs Iran.
spacebanana7•about 15 hours ago
Rome lost loads of soldiers in the Germanic wars too. The parallel is that these wars are too expensive (for a non-existential conflict) to take to fulfilment, but also can't easily be disengaged from.
SanjayMehta•about 15 hours ago
This comment epitomises one of the reasons why the US does not and cannot win any war against a peer adversary.

Flawed data.

criddell•about 15 hours ago
> send entire generations off to die methods of old

Of old? Isn't that what Russia is doing right now?

Georgelemental•about 15 hours ago
No, they haven't implemented mass conscription, and won't because even autocrats can't ignore public opinion
criddell•about 14 hours ago
Not sure if the numbers are correct, but it looks like the number of Russians killed in Ukraine is about the same as the number of Americans killed in WW2. Does it matter if the state uses a carrot or stick to send a generation off to die?

These may be rookie numbers for Russia, but it's still significant.

giardini•about 10 hours ago
pibaker•about 9 hours ago
Correct. Conscription in Russia largely happens to rural people, ethnic minorities and convicts. Russia is the way it is because a large enough number of ethnic Russian middle class urbanites don't give a fuck about anything, and Putin knows the moment he starts drafting them he turns them into anti war activists.
Jamesbeam•about 13 hours ago
> modern conflicts are absolutely nothing compared to what has happened historically.

‎> vs. the send entire generations off to die methods of old.

Feel free to click and zoom yourself through the generational pile of almost a quarter million dead Russians below, armchair general.

https://200.zona.media/

jst1fthsdys•about 12 hours ago
Mocking him while linking to a BBC propaganda piece is funny.
ButlerianJihad•about 15 hours ago
> single troop dies

Really, now? What national news do you watch? I have literally never seen current/breaking news stories about the death of American troops in action. It seems literally the most silent thing going on. I really don't know--are casualty numbers reported on a regular basis, from the "front"?

I would sometimes, after the fact, learn of repatriation flights or interment ceremonies for fallen soldiers. But only on a sporadic basis. Literally, I think I would be familiar with them by now, since Operation Desert Storm or so. This is not something they put on the news. I think that a comparison of casualties from allied and belligerent troops would be something to report, but if they do, it's just sort of being slotted into some Wikipedia article somewhere, I guess.

ceejayoz•about 15 hours ago
The #2 headline on nytimes.com literally right now is "Pentagon Identifies Two U.S. Troops Killed in Jordan". (Same slot for nbcnews.com; https://www.bbc.com/news/us-canada currently has "US soldier killed and one injured after Iranian attack in Iraq" as the top slot.)

Yesterday that NYT home page featured a cell phone video of the strike as the main story.

cbm-vic-20•about 15 hours ago
Right now, the front page of CNN's web site in the US has as the primary headline "Third US service member killed as US ramps up strikes on Iran"[1]. The secondary headline has the names of two of them.[2]

[1] https://www.cnn.com/2026/07/20/world/live-news/iran-war-trum...

[2] https://www.cnn.com/2026/07/20/politics/us-military-soldiers...

sokoloff•about 15 hours ago
I’m fairly surprised you are not seeing them. As a test, I checked for US servicemember deaths in the Middle East in July 2026 and checked against my own recall from casual news consumption.

I knew of the helicopter crash (1) and missile attack (2). I did not know of the EOD accident (1) this weekend. So, 3 of 4 I knew about without any particularly directed effort to follow it (and the 4th, I’m sure I’ll see reporting about during the week but wasn’t consuming much content of any type over the weekend).

bakies•about 15 hours ago
Front page of The Guardian. One death is breaking news and there were two deaths covered a few days ago and their names were released.

What national news do YOU watch? Seems like it's not good at covering the most important thing the USA is doing.

basisword•about 15 hours ago
>> Really, now? What national news do you watch? I have literally never seen current/breaking news stories about the death of American troops in action.

It happened about three days ago. I'm not even in the US and it was a top headline here.