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#xargs#find#command#parallel#echo#shell#bash#https#don#instead

Discussion (103 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

jllyhillabout 1 hour ago
Did you write it or did Claude code slopcoded it for you? Claude is the contributor to all your other repositories. There is a world of difference between "here's a problem that I'm really concerned with and poured all my expertise to solve it" and "I told Claude to fix it for me and now I'm gonna abandon it as soon as I'm done with the HN advertising".
cryo32about 1 hour ago
kleiba238 minutes ago
> There is a world of difference between "here's a problem that I'm really concerned with and poured all my expertise to solve it" and "I told Claude to fix it for me and now I'm gonna abandon it as soon as I'm done with the HN advertising"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

account42about 2 hours ago
> Consistent syntax — same {} placeholder for files, lines, ranges, or lists

Inconsistent syntax native bash methods so its an additional syntax to learn.

> Template mode — single-quoted commands work as shell templates: enumerate -f '*' -- 'cat {} | head -5'

Passing commands a a single string is BAD. Now you have to think about escaping and quoting. What does {} get replaced with if the enumerant contains unsafe characters? Can it be used as part of a larger argument or only on its own? Who knows, it's not bash. Compared to a bash loop its also always a subshell with all the implications that has - even find can be piped into a normal bash loop.

> Filters — --include and --exclude with glob patterns

A fraction of what find or native loops provide. And since this can't replace them in general enumerate is an additional thing to learn on top.

> Extensible — drop a file in lib/enumerators/ to add custom sources

To extend bash loops you don't even need root access, you just add the code to the loop.

iririririrabout 1 hour ago
being consistent in a sea of inconsistency is a good thing, no matter how hard you try to paint otherwise. the solution have to start at some point. But the rest, yeah, scary.
IdiotSavageabout 3 hours ago
In this thread: bash experts with arcane knowledge, unintentionally demonstrating how awful bash is.

The obvious solution would be to use something more sane, like PowerShell or nushell, but instead old experts will always defend the skills they have honed for years, while criticizing anything that's different.

kfsoneabout 2 hours ago
I was the kind of shell guru whose teeth itched when they saw someone doing `grep | awk`. Then I had to try and bring Windows into a Mac+Linux CI system under Jenkins groovy files that were full of `"""sh` fragments, shell scriptlets wrapping python, etc, etc, and I don't bat (I don't groovy either).

Option 1: Learn to bat and try to translate. Hmm. No. Just no Option 2: ?

Pwsh core had just come out. My immediate thought was that it would be great material for an anti-MS-ragging blog post, but then a line leapt out at me from one article I was glossing over: "... POSIX Terminal Shell Spec ...".

I still wanted that anti-MS-ragging blog material, so I decided to try and use Pwsh as a Rosetta stone until I got to a point I could convert to a real language.

But things just began to click for me. It was like going from Perl to Python - suddenly everything is an object and you can interact with everything* that way.

There's no need for grep or awk or sed in pwsh, because the output of a shell command is an object -- a string (or []byte). It has methods.

(netstat -an).replace("192.168.86.", "10.0.100.")

6 years later, pwsh is the default shell on my Mac, Ubuntu boxes, lab vms, ... everything but my docker containers unless I'm feeling feisty.

no-name-hereabout 2 hours ago
I’m curious why it’s your default on most but not all platforms?
iririririrabout 1 hour ago
ideally containers run a single process. if you're spawning shells you're doing something wrong. and idealier, you should use just bare processes with namespaces and abandon docker.
ameliusabout 2 hours ago
Yes, Bash has no place in modern software engineering.

If it was invented today, professionals would cringe at it.

loboftaabout 2 hours ago
Switched to Nushell and I am not looking back. I don't see any major reason why we should keep dragging Bash into the twenty first century. Nushell is the first time I feel like I can write complex systems operations in a shell without having to spend either a ton of time in the docs or being at the mercy of an LLM. It is godsend.
piaste3 minutes ago
I tried to switch to nushell full-time but couldn't stick with it.

Ironically, the main friction point were not old-fashioned tools (which `from ssv` usually handled nicely) but the 'new generation' of core CLI tools like eza or fzf. They have really nice visualizations, but they do not output structured data as a middle step, so all the colours and lines only play havoc with nu's parsing.

Since I need to "ls" a lot more often than I need to do data manipulation, the tools won and I went back to zsh. Still keep nu around for the occasional config/data file wrangling though.

zxexzabout 3 hours ago
I don’t want to be a downer here, but the structure of this repo and the verbosity+language of the docs feel 80% vibecoded. Not that that’s wrong; I just feel kinda gullible for even clicking on this.

One uses xargs or parallel only a few times before they remember some of the quirks that but them. And then they become cautious. And then it’s muscle memory. And if it’s not an often occurrence, they learn to check the man page.

Anyways, in a world of “vibecoding” why add another “tool” to the mix when the LLMs have been trained on all our stackoverflow-posted grievances to begin with?

dundariousabout 3 hours ago
If you want a shell to interact with the results, you can of course just use a (sub)shell.

    ls -1 ./*.sh | xargs -rd\\n sh -c 'for i in "$@" ; do ... ; done' sh
1. not strictly necessary to use -1 as I believe all common ls detect !isatty(stdout) and produce line-by-line output anyway.

2. xargs -r just doesn't run the command if there's no input, also not strictly necessary but I'm addicted to using it because it's the sensible default to me.

3. xargs -d\\n makes it collect fields as full lines, which is what you typically want, unless you're able to generate NULs.

4. use whatever shell you want of course, but I don't use bashisms, etc., by default, /bin/sh is fine for me, even if it's dash.

5. the trailing "sh" at the end is due to a quirk of `sh -c` usage, where $0 is the first non option argument, so `printf %s\\n 1 2 3 | xargs -rd\\n sh -c 'for i in "$@" ; do printf "%s " "$i" ; done ; echo'` (note the lack of trailing "sh") would only print "2 3 " as $0 is not included in "$@" ($0 is 1, $1 is 2, $2 is 3). It's very easy to just always give the shell name itself manually as $0 instead of trying to ingest "$0" into your logic.

Of course, you could `find . -maxdepth 1 -type f -name '*.sh' -print0 | xargs -r0 ...` instead, depending on what you're up to, that may be the easiest. It's definitely the simplest -- as long as your xargs has -0 support.

eqvinoxabout 11 hours ago
Not sure I see the point of this. Remembering a bunch of options on one tool is no better than a bunch of tools/constructs? Especially if the latter are useful elsewhere. And it can't be used for scripts unless you start shipping it alongside, which… nah.

Just go with

  foo | while read X; do bar "$X"; done
JoshTriplettabout 9 hours ago
I use "| while read" as well, because it works well in a pipeline and handles embedded spaces. It doesn't handle embedded newlines, but in practice, real files have embedded spaces, while embedded newlines only happen in test cases and exploits. (You can do actual NUL-delimited reads with `-d ''`, but for a quick command-line operation that's generally not necessary, and if you're going to be that careful you probably also need `-r`.)
fiddlerwoaroofabout 9 hours ago
I just use while’s default variable name, $REPLY most of the time. But `while` is my preferred tool for the xargs problem in most cases.
pjmlpabout 3 hours ago
One thing with classical UNIX commands, is that you can expect to find them into random computers besides one's own laptop.

Not everyone has the luxury to only work with their own computer, or run random software on IT/customer managed systems.

db48xabout 6 hours ago
> Or maybe you pipe into xargs and pray your filenames don’t have spaces…

Always use -0. Most gnu utilities support it. It makes them put a null byte after every filename instead of a newline. Completely eliminates the problem of dealing with whitespace in the filenames.

AdieuToLogicabout 6 hours ago
To support your recommendation and redress the strawman the article postulates, the post's author could have replaced:

  find . -name '*.log' | xargs rm
With:

  find . -name '*.log' -print0 | xargs -0 rm
jsrcoutabout 2 hours ago
For tools that don't support -0, you can add the NULs yourself without much fuss. It's a one-liner in awk/perl/sed. Very handy.
tester457about 11 hours ago
On the topic of xargs replacements, I love gnu parallel.

The --dry-run flag of parallel made me confident to do more batch processing than I ever did with xargs.

Parallel has an option for almost everything, it's almost too much.

But I have shopped around for alternatives. The creator Ole Tange maintains a painstakingly long article of the alternatives and their differences. [0]

The gnu parallel book and reading materials [1] are excellent too.

[0] https://www.gnu.org/software/parallel/parallel_alternatives....

[1] https://www.gnu.org/software/parallel/#Tutorial

metadatabout 9 hours ago
Every time I’ve used Gnu Parallel on a new system it required accepting a Eula, which is annoying. I stick to xargs -P99 these days and am happier.

Utility software which has non-essential different first-run behavior is hostile to users.

dataflowabout 10 hours ago
Oh man, parallel is awful. I have to rant about this because I literally tried it again today morning.

Every single damn time I try parallel and decide to give it another chance, something ends up not working or causing a problem. I can never get it to just do what I want and get out of the way.

Today I foolishly thought maybe I was the one who was holding it wrong every single time in the past, so I copy pasted another command that was supposed to work, and thought surely this would be straightforward. Boy was I wrong. I got some manifesto about academic citations and plagiarism, which confused the hell out of me. After I wasted time trying to figure out how to turn off that nonsense, the app just hung there trying to figure out how long its command line can be? Literally doing nothing? What the hell? I killed it but then my terminal didn't close because every time I did this apparently some perl command was spawned in the background blocked on nothing. Why the hell was perl even relevant? Nothing I wrote used Perl. Just run the darn commands I asked in parallel, is that so hard?

nvme0n1p1about 9 hours ago
> the app just hung there trying to figure out how long its command line can be?

That's common on linux. Many tools read from stdin if a file path isn't given: cat, xargs, base64, cksum, etc.

The citation thing is a little silly, I'll give you that one.

somatabout 10 hours ago
I have used echo as a sort of poor mans equivalent for a safe check of a pipeline, removing the echo when I felt the rest of the pipeline was working correctly.

  shell stuff | xargs -n 1 -I % echo real command and % args
I have also been known to write scripts where instead of executing the critical parts it prints them. Then a dry run is

  script
and the real run is

  script | sh
krackersabout 9 hours ago
Shouldn't you use echo instead of cat?
somatabout 8 hours ago
yes echo, total brain fart there
bryancoxwellabout 9 hours ago
Love that idea, thanks for sharing
quotemstrabout 10 hours ago
I love GNU Parallel too. I love how it's free software and how I can patch out the obnoxious citation notice.
jeffbeeabout 9 hours ago
Parallel is ok but rush is nicer and much faster.

https://github.com/shenwei356/rush

foobarquxabout 9 hours ago
The rush project page on Github itself says it is only "slightly" faster.
kfsoneabout 2 hours ago
Careful - you start from the POSIX terminal spec, you think maybe it would be interesting having objects instead of raw text streams, and next thing you've reinvented powershell...

(*35 years living and loving sh/ksh/bash/dash etc, only tried pwsh so I could write some comparisons and slag off MS a bit; now it's my default shell on everything)

ggmabout 11 hours ago

  find -print0 | xargs -0 -I {} "the {} iterated command"
somatabout 11 hours ago
Xargs is fine, but openbsd has a -J option and every time I read the man page to figure out how to use it I read the -I and -J options and my brain glazes over.

https://man.openbsd.org/xargs

Other brain glazing obsd wierdness is it's two argument cd command, a cryptid I am unable to wrap my head around.

https://man.openbsd.org/ksh#cd~2

fiddlerwoaroofabout 9 hours ago
The two arg cd is pretty useful (and, zsh implements it too because cd is a shell feature): if you have parallel directory structure (e.g. the way rails does tests) you can switch from app/b/c/d to spec/b/c/f by doing `cd app spec`
0xbadcafebeeabout 10 hours ago
I highly recommend memorizing the POSIX version of every *NIX command and sticking to them. 60% of the time, they work every time. (https://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/9799919799/idx/utiliti...)
fiddlerwoaroofabout 9 hours ago
In a world with nix and where nearly every system has zsh, restricting yourself to the POSIX version of these tools is masochistic.
JoshTriplettabout 9 hours ago
I highly recommend using whatever capabilities are convenient of any utility you're running, and not caring about what other systems do unless you're actually trying to write a portable shell script.
ggmabout 10 hours ago
BSD vs linux with a standards committee inbetween.
koolbaabout 11 hours ago
And for most of those commands add a dash dash so that nothing with a dash prefix turns into options.
em-beeabout 10 hours ago
why would you ever pipe find into xargs instead of calling -exec?

    find -exec the '{}' iterated command ';'
gumbyabout 10 hours ago
Because xargs is faster. Exec will invoke the command once per matching file (which is sometimes what you want, of course)!

While xargs will accumulate a bunch of file names, then when it as n names will invoke the command with those names, while continuing to accumulate names until n is reached or the pipe closes.

The size of n depends on the system, but is usually at least a thousand.

em-beeabout 10 hours ago
the example as given does not accumulate, so that is what i worked with.

    find -exec command '{}' '+' 
accumulates file arguments too. the only advantage of xargs is that you can tell it how many arguments to accumulate,̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶d̶o̶w̶n̶s̶i̶d̶e̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶x̶a̶r̶g̶s̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶h̶a̶v̶e̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶p̶e̶c̶i̶f̶y̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶n̶u̶m̶b̶e̶r̶,̶ ̶w̶h̶e̶r̶e̶a̶s̶ ̶f̶i̶n̶d̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶f̶i̶t̶s̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶m̶a̶n̶y̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶i̶t̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶.̶
ggmabout 10 hours ago
The prior has a point because 98.89% of the time I type xargs -n 1 -0 and we are deep in the useless pipe argument which Rob Pike amongst others has rehearsed well.

I do it because I do it, just like why I use egrep and sed in pipes along with awk.

t-3about 10 hours ago
Leah Neukirchen's lr and xe are very nice as a find and xargs replacement (although lr's test flag is way too complex). lr *.file | xe -s ' ... ' is a really great pattern for iterative scripting and hard to get wrong.
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teo_zeroabout 7 hours ago
Good idea but strange syntax. It would be more idiomatic if the command came first and the list of globs last.

Additionally the use of "--" is not what everybody expects: here it is used to introduce one argument, the command, while it's usually meant to introduce multiple arguments without worrying if they have a leading "-".

A possible revised syntax with command as the first argument followed by a list of globs optionally introduced by "--" would allow to enumerate all files with a leading "-", which the current syntax cannot:

  enumerate 'whatever {}' -- '-*'
I'm assuming "-f" for simplicity, but the same reasoning holds for "-L" too.
montagabout 6 hours ago
I thought -- was typically a separator for passing a list of arguments directly to some subcommand
altairprimeabout 3 hours ago
The historical meaning is, "do not interpret command line arguments following --"; e.g. the classical form shown by `echo > -f; rm -- -f`. Git has a more complex interpretation of it and no doubt there's others, but this root interpretation remains generally sound: It acts as a boundary between 'complex and intelligent processing of @ARGV elements' and 'every remaining element of @ARGV after -- is treated a string literal without further processing'.
vladdeabout 1 hour ago
i often find xargs ends up biting me, and i have wanted some alternative for a while... but i don't think this is the one for me.

it feel like the syntax here is odd. it still requires me to write quote my command i want to run? unfortunately i'll have to pass on this.

personally i'd want some variant where i can still auto-complete commands and have just have {} as a placeholder. (maybe time to learn how to use xargs for real?)

chasilabout 9 hours ago
I use:

  find . -name '*.log' -print0 | xargs -0 rm
For this simple example (derived from the article), find also has a delete operator.

This null termination is now a POSIX standard.

ivladabout 9 hours ago
Was exactly my thought: why not to use null termination?

Looks like a case where reading man page would have spared writing another copycat utility.

G_o_Dabout 5 hours ago
Atleast follow standard practice in your example

Fails : enumerate -f '.txt' -- 'wc -l {}'

For all use cases

Correct : enumerate -f '.txt' -- 'wc -l -- {}'

gfalcaoabout 6 hours ago
> Or maybe you pipe into xargs and pray your filenames don’t have spaces…

Most of this, if not all, is fixable by adding a `export IFS=$'\n'` to your bashrc. I'm not trying to disregard your project, just point out something that took me years to learn and I currently use extensively to solve this very problem. Perhaps you didn't know about it until now... :)

ivladabout 3 hours ago
Or, you use `xargs -0` for null termination instead of white space termination. `find` conveniently supports `-print0` that will use null character as separator.
gfalcaoabout 4 hours ago
Another trick that took me years to learn is to use `xargs -I` to split the results into "items"

For example

`ps aux | grep process-name | grep -v grep | awk '{ print $2 }' | xargs -Ieach kill -9 each`

loremmabout 10 hours ago
I have found that the most reliable way I like is to just construct the command externally and then pass to gnu parallel (mostly for --eta and --tmuxpane). And the great thing is, as others say, xargs -I. I prefer for shortness (and few collisoins), '@'

seq 1 10|xargs -I@ echo 'bash run.py @'|parallel -j 10

I know the echo is a little silly but then I can remove the |parallel and see if it's right. And if I don't want parallelism, I just pass to bash

samtheprogramabout 10 hours ago
Literally just use xargs with -I {} and quotation marks?
scrameabout 3 hours ago
find -print0...|xargs -0... works for me, and i don't always want to execute something and xargs can run parallel processes. i feel like this guy never bothered to read the man page.
0xbadcafebeeabout 10 hours ago
I wanted something simpler — one consistent way to iterate over anything.

That's not actually simpler though. Simple is removing everything unnecessary. You took commands which could already do what you wanted, and added an extra program which calls them in specific ways. This will add bugs and maintenance headaches, not be portable, etc. This is added complexity.

The reason you made this script is not because you wanted simpler, you wanted easier. There's nothing wrong with that, and I'll grant you it probably is, especially for those unaccustomed to these commands. But easier != simpler. Often you'll find that simple is hard and easy is complexity deferred.

fhnabout 5 hours ago
calling it 'bashnumerate' and then have the command be 'enumerate' is confusing. find one and stick with it.
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raggiabout 10 hours ago
in zsh you can just write:

   for x (*.sh); echo "before $x after"
or

   for x in *.sh; echo "before $x after"
or

   for x (*.sh) { echo -n "before "; echo -n $x; echo " after" }
PunchyHamsterabout 10 hours ago
missed the point. reason to use xargs or parallel are generally two: list of arguments is too long, or list of arguments that is kept in memory would take too much

for example

    for a in `find / ` ; do echo $a ; done
will take A LOT of memory, while using find's -exec, xargs, or parallel will not
unsnap_bicepsabout 9 hours ago
I looked into the source and the underlaying source uses a glob and suffers from the issue you brought up.

https://github.com/wallach-game/bashumerate/blob/master/lib/...

foobarquxabout 9 hours ago
But bashenumerate doesn't do that? The parent is saying you should zsh shortloops instead of bashenumerate not zsh shortloops instead of xargs.
AdieuToLogicabout 6 hours ago
> Ever found yourself writing this?

  for f in *.txt; do
    wc -l "$f"
  done
No, because `wc` accepts multiple files. And the example given is incorrect for any file having a `.txt` suffix and whitespaces.

> Or this?

  find . -name '*.sh' -exec wc -l {} +
No.

> These all work, but each has its own syntax, its own flags, its own quirks. I wanted something simpler — one consistent way to iterate over anything.

And therein lies the proverbial xkcd standards[0] proof.

0 - https://xkcd.com/927/

dborehamabout 7 hours ago
55 comments and nobody mentioned the incorrect English in the title?
fhnabout 4 hours ago
I'm glad you here to save us. What would we do without you?
caminanteblancoabout 11 hours ago
Obligatory XKCD: https://xkcd.com/927/
butvacuumabout 9 hours ago
along with: I love standards- Theres soany to choose from!
PunchyHamsterabout 10 hours ago
I feel like it could be just alias to some particular GNU Parallel set of options
wallach-gameabout 13 hours ago
bashumerate — iterate over files, lines, ranges, or lists with a consistent {} syntax. No for loops, no find -exec, no xargs flags to remember. enumerate -f '*.sh' -- wc -l {} enumerate -L a b c -- 'echo {}' Under 150 lines of bash, pluable sources, NUL-safe. https://github.com/wallach-game/bashumerate
figmertabout 11 hours ago
Have you seen parallel?