Back to News
Advertisement
Advertisement

⚡ Community Insights

Discussion Sentiment

68% Positive

Analyzed from 5236 words in the discussion.

Trending Topics

#more#crash#going#don#bubble#still#things#those#companies#real

Discussion (130 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

joshstrange•about 2 hours ago
> Most new technologies have been welcomed by the public with open arms.

I'm not going to predict how this is going to turn out in either direction but this statement gives me pause. I don't think that's ever been true. Yes, the siren song is strong but initially most new tech is met with skepticism. Are we so quick to forget "the internet/computers are just a fad"-type thinking?

simonsarris•about 1 hour ago
Yeah backlash against railroads was very widespread, from lots of angles (farmers, property owners, canal investors, health-conscious people, religious leaders, etc). Probably the same for cars.
LogicFailsMe•about 2 hours ago
Heliocentrism calling...

Yeah, we reject anything new and scary. Gotta wonder what the cavepeople made of the wheel.

Edit: still triggered by heliocentrism in 2026? OK then.

bsza•about 1 hour ago
People weren’t as ignorant back then as you think. They had very good reason to reject heliocentrism, namely that constellations don’t grow and shrink in size as the earth moves around. That, they said, would require the universe to be unimaginably big and empty, much more so than any other observation they could make at the time would suggest.

If you have the time, I recommend reading Pliny’s Natural History. I think it really shows how much more open-minded these people were than we give them credit for. They just didn’t have the technology we have.

LogicFailsMe•23 minutes ago
Tell that to Giordano Bruno.
dreamcompiler•43 minutes ago
Another reason many people rejected heliocentrism was that you could get excommunicated (or worse!) if you professed to accept it.
ofjcihen•38 minutes ago
I mean Zeppelins were supposed to be the premier form of air travel despite the glaringly obvious issues.

Invoking “heliocentrism” is the HN version of “Ive already drawn you as the virgin and me as the Chad.”

heaney-555•about 2 hours ago
Exactly, it's utter nonsense. The general public thought the first bicycles, automobiles, computers, mobile phones, smart watches, and AirPods were stupid. And now they are normal. Same with video games and dating apps.
LogicFailsMe•19 minutes ago
I lived it. I had a teacher in high school continually scold me for reading books on programming languages and banning me from writing essays on the future of computers. Apparently, I should have been outside getting my ass kicked by the jocks like any normal kid would. Why the guy even called up my parents to express his concerns about me. Or there was the time my 2nd grade teacher contacted my parents for reading Run Silent, Run Deep during my submarine phase because that was a book for adolescents, not children. Mel Brooks wrote it best...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYTQ7__NNDI

SpicyLemonZest•5 minutes ago
When ecommerce was getting big, I knew a number of people who thought it was absurd. You can't just send money over the Internet, hackers will steal it! You should use normal payment methods, like writing "fifteen dollars and 56/100------" on a special piece of paper the bank gave you.
cmiles8•about 2 hours ago
It’s not a question of if but when at this point.

To parallel to The Big Short this is the point in the movie where folks realize it’s mathematically impossible for things to not implode and so players are quietly positioning themselves for that eventuality before things are allowed to blow.

It’s been a dramatic shift these last six months but everywhere I look now folks are quietly preparing their battle armor to survive what’s about to unfold.

The tech will stay, but the AI business landscape will have a market-cleansing forest fire.

There’s a whole generation in tech now that’s never seen what happens when a bubble like this unravels. I fully expect we’ll see the likes of offices just abandoned overnight with food still in the fridge as AI company after AI company just vaporizes.

vrganj•about 2 hours ago
How would one position oneself as an individual investor if one believed this thesis?
cmiles8•about 2 hours ago
Not financial advice, but: Honestly it’s pretty hard and I wouldn’t recommend it. Shorting stocks and getting into bonds / default swaps but the system is broadly rigged against small players doing well here. Ie in the Big Short see everything that was needed for two guys to bet with their own money.

It’s likely to be bumpy for all but stay the course with diversified strategy. The .com bust and 2008 are just blips and cheap buying opportunities for most folks with diversified portfolios and index funds. We’ll likely see similar messy markets for a while but the world will eventually recover and move on.

The ones that get truly wiped out are those with a lot of paper wealth now that implodes, but have little liquid wealth. These types go from “super rich” to can’t pay their bills almost overnight. Cash is king for times like those ahead so if you don’t have a lot of cash on hand, now is the time to secure that if you can.

bryanlarsen•22 minutes ago
Heck, it's pretty rigged against big guys too. The subprime bubble was not something that only Michael Burry knew about -- it was a front page story on the Economist several times years before the crash.

There were lots of big guys that bet against the bubble, but bet too early and weren't able to keep up with margin calls etc.

lubujackson•17 minutes ago
Be careful if you expect a dot com fallout - that was retail investor driven and took a long time to unwind as people sat through painful drops. Ai is much more of a private investment bubble. AI remains useful. What is likely to go away (and all at once) is investment and free rides/discounts.

So I expect more of a sobering process for AI companies rather than a blowup, simply because they all still will have cash in the bank and some have actual products with clients that make use of them.

SpicyLemonZest•21 minutes ago
I don't think there's a good way for individual investors to position themselves against economy-wide investment misallocation. As The Big Short also covered, any profitable short position is going to require making a risky bet about when the bubble will pop, and when things get chaotic there's no guarantee that instruments which "should" be correlated to the thesis will actually remain so. You can:

* identify a bad AI stock at $100 today

* produce an ironclad 100% guaranteed proof the company's valuation will drop below $50 by the end of 2028

* buy a bunch of long-dated puts with a break-even of $75

* see the AI investment bubble visibly falling apart in let's say March 2027

and you still lose if OpenAI acquihires the team at $80 in an attempt to prop things up.

Yopolo•about 1 hour ago
Thats a weird take. Google/Alphabet can literaly just afford their AI investment.

Microsoft can as well.

So Anthropic only has a few thousand people which is nothing and OpenAI has also only a few thousand.

A lot of people working at these companies would find a new job easily and probably making a shit ton of money anyway.

The broader AI companies do not have that much venture capital, not that many peple and potentially not even that high of risks.

Deepseek didn't do their funding round because they could'nt even get the compute if they wanted to. So they might be very lean.

And even investors for OpenAI and Anthropic might accept that they stop R&D and just keep the services up and running as they are cost effective.

The bigger problem will be the industry itself: If i'm 5x more productive, and generate now more costs on the business, they will reduce headcounts to compensate for it.

Kuyawa•about 2 hours ago
AI investment will crash but AI itself (the technology) will continue thriving, learning, improving and there is absolutely no way to stop it. The only reading on the crystal ball is if US companies fail, China will take the lead by leaps and bounds, so the only solution is to keep pushing the cart until the wheels come off or we all cross the finish line, together.
drudolph914•about 2 hours ago
it's a bit unfair to say this is the only thing that can happen. we can just as easily assume in like over a few years, US leadership identifies that AI is an arms race, and continuing down this path leads is going to lead to a zero-sum-game. and so instead of just mindlessly pushing the cart forever, we see government intervention
toasty228•about 2 hours ago
> absolutely no way to stop it.

Unless if they take down the flat rate subs and you have to pay api prices, usage will drop a lot. Right now I freelance using gpt, if I had to pay api prices I'd probably lose 50% of the income, if not more, with the ~40% tax on top I might as well spend my time doing something else

ekidd•about 2 hours ago
You're unlikely to ever be priced out of tokens, at least if you'd be willing to settle for a model closer to Sonnet 4.5. That level of model certainly isn't as efficient as Fable 5, but it can crank out CRUD apps and other consulting mainstays quite well, with some supervision.

To give you an example of model in this class, the DeepSeek V4 Flash preview is a 284B A13B model, with a native quantization mixing 4 bit and 8-bit values. You can easily run it on an RTX Pro 6000 Blackwell (or 2) at a reasonable quant, especially if you offload the MoE weights to 48-64GB of system RAM. This costs US$11,800 at Microcenter right now, and it will work in any gaming box with decent cooling and a modern 1000W power supply. Over the lifetime of the card, an entire system would cost you under $4,000/year. Power is about 300W for the card (either a blower model, or a workstation model with the power cap), and another 150W or so for the rest of the server.

Or you could buy it on Open Router from dozens of different commodity vendors, starting around $0.09 per million tokens input, $0.18 per million tokens output. This is a competitive market price, so some of the providers might be losing money or reselling surplus capacity. But given the underlying hardware costs, the numbers are in the ballpark. In other words, if you're willing to settle for lower-quality tokens, you can get roughly Sonnet 4.5 for close to free, or as a modest capital expense for a successful freelancer. Halfway decent tokens are cheap, and you can generate them in-house!

toasty228•about 1 hour ago
> You can easily run it on an RTX Pro 6000

Sure, and people can just build their own dropbox for like $250 too.

How many people will bother though

nsxwolf•about 1 hour ago
The problem is I cannot imagine ever making a single dollar with AI. I have built about 16 SaaS apps with AI, in the time it took to build by first old fashioned human-created SaaS app. The one thing the agentic coded apps have in common with my old one is that none of them have ever won a single paying customer.
LogicFailsMe•about 2 hours ago
That would just create incentive to build better consumer HW for larger open weight models. And that would make me very happy. But I think the poster in another thread who stated there's a netflix subscription phenomena going on with the fixed rate pricing was onto something. My agents run 24/7 until I hit all my limits. I suspect my results are not typical. And as of yesterday I have issues with both major CEOs yet I thank them both for subsidizing my tokenmaxxing.
ursuscamp•about 2 hours ago
I don't necessarily buy that API prices represent "real" prices of the models.
drewnick•20 minutes ago
I moved one of our daily workflows over to Kimi K3 on Fireworks. It replaces two sales assistant positions, and was about $50/day for 14 million tokens total (in/out). They surely are not subsidizing this price as it is just inference only and other providers are even less money.
spwa4•about 2 hours ago
It's probably a safe assumption that openrouter prices for Kimi K3 are "real".
xienze•about 2 hours ago
Well of course they're higher than marginal cost. But these providers have to also generate a fat return on investment.
tempfile•about 2 hours ago
What do you think the real price is? Subscriptions are heavily subsidised, I don't know anyone who would deny that.
ellyagg•about 2 hours ago
Yup. If there is a crash, those with cash and understanding will clean up. AI is eating the world, period.
rektomatic•about 2 hours ago
what exactly is this finish line? AGI?
Insanity•about 2 hours ago
That's what they'll sell you. But fundamentally current LLM implementations seem to be the wrong methodology for 'AGI' and I don't think we're remotely close to having this.
dannersy•about 2 hours ago
Good luck convincing HN of this point. Half the replies in this thread reek of insanity.
Yopolo•about 2 hours ago
Yes.

Investors for sure don't care about people. Replace Accenture with OpenAI and you replace 800k people immediadly.

Geoffrey Hinton said it in his Videos: a normal person costs A LOT of money to train, educate, onboard, keep etc. they forget things etc.

AGI you train once, teach once then clone and copy and just run it.

We even might already crossed the line were it is already more cost efective to train 1-5 frontier models something it doesn't know yet than teaching this to a 1000 humans.

tptacek•about 2 hours ago
Economists have a term of art for this phenomenon: "automation".
tptacek•about 2 hours ago
What exactly was the finish line for the Internet?
palmotea•40 minutes ago
> AI investment will crash but AI itself (the technology) will continue thriving, learning, improving and there is absolutely no way to stop it.

No, there's is a way to stop it. As obvious counterexample: go all Butlerian Jihad: death sentence for anyone caught "making a machine in the likeness of a human mind." It's doable with a few laws and treaties. I'm not saying that's the only way it could be stopped, it's just a way it could.

I'm fucking sick of TINA, especially with arguments from vigorous assertion.

tempfile•about 2 hours ago
There is "absolutely no way to stop" the thing that requires hundreds of billions of dollars of cash injected every year just to avoid falling over?
outworlder•about 2 hours ago
Just like every AI cycle that came before. At every cycle, we get a new tool. But we also get an extended "AI Winter" where investment dries up. This has been happening since the 1980s, we just keep redefining what "AI" is. At every cycle we move the line a bit; at one point voice recognition was firmly in the AI camp(and before that, science fiction). Now we have a machine that can do that in our pockets and nobody cares.

Does anyone remember expert systems?

Schlagbohrer•about 2 hours ago
Douglas Hofstadter talked about these moving goalposts for AI in his book Gödel, Escher, Bach. I remember when a program that could win at chess was considered impossibly strong AI. Then, the game go. Etc.

Heinlein in his book The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress imagined that people in the future would find it worthwhile, even necessary, to learn an artifical language LogLan so they could talk with computers. LogLan (Logical Language) would be designed to be totally unambiguous, a necessity for speaking with a computer. He didn't imagine that we'd simply throw so much compute at the problem that we'd teach computers to understand our vague, mumbled natural languages in all their diversity.

nehal3m•about 2 hours ago
Ah, Lojban!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lojban

Sadly this does not let you speak to computers, just other language nerds with a lot of time.

classified•about 2 hours ago
I didn't know there is a finish line.
somewhereoutth•about 2 hours ago
However, who will pay for the very expensive training if the ROI isn't there? Absent government subsidization, then likely the frontier models will be sold off to the hyperscalers by the bankruptcy administrators to wring a few more dollars out of them as they become out of date and more and more irrelevant - assuming that inference alone is profitable at a price the market is willing to pay of course, if not then yes the lights will indeed be turned off.
_override•about 2 hours ago
When it comes to the AI crash honestly my biggest concern is what is going to happen to the job market during and the years following the crash. Not sure how things are in the rest of the world, but as someone in their early 30s working in the IT industry in Sweden I’ve never seen the market this competitive before, even for mid level and senior roles, and it worries me what the future of employment is going to look like.

Maybe those older than me have been through this kind of thing before in 2008-2009 and in the early 2000s but the state of the IT job market in the last year or two has been really concerning to me. Anecdotally I’ve also heard it’s very tough for new graduates these days.

dspillett•about 2 hours ago
> what the future of employment is going to look like

As an already slightly outdated senior dev in the UK rapidly approaching 50 and not wanting to touch generative AI / agentic dev… … I'm increasingly looking forward to waiting tables, being a hospital porter, or anything else away from tech!

I'm thinking that if I get out soon, I might beat most of the rush and be safely employed before many of the rest of you are forced down the same path.

[more than a little defeatist, yes, but I've be been unhappy in dev for years so for me the AI driven displacement is just the final nail rather than the main big new problem]

mikegioia•about 2 hours ago
Over 40 myself and switched to high school teaching this year. I feel like tech in general has been degrading for a while but 2025 AI really just wiped it out imo.
ray_v•about 2 hours ago
It's interesting that you're looking to exit the industry as a SR dev - from my casual observations it seems like mostly it's the JR devs and younger folks that have been mostly rejecting agentic dev.

Just out of curiosity, do you have a specific objections to using the technology? I totally understand the burnout however (I'm rapidly approaching 50 myself).

lstodd•about 2 hours ago
get into telecom is my advice. despite it being the birthplace of monstrosities like 3gpp, there is a suprising amount of sane people. and no amount of ai crash and burn will decrease the need for communications.
giancarlostoro•about 2 hours ago
I think there's a few things going on and I also believe that in many (if not most, and dare I say ALL) cases AI as an excuse for lay offs is simply a scapegoat. If AI is so great, why aren't you re-training those who are ineffective at using it, and then cutting those who still don't make the cut? If it's this amazing thing for your company, wouldn't it drive revenue up drastically?

I wish the SEC would start auditing claims about AI for job cuts, not sure if its within their ball park but there's people claiming this, when they have no receipts, and then stock goes up, if that's not market manipulation, I'm not sure what is.

Schlagbohrer•about 2 hours ago
This is a good example. If AI increases productivity so much, then having more employees would be beneficial, because each can produce even more output. So the firm would only be limited by the imagination of their product managers and marketing team finding new things to produce with this vast capability.

And yet...

agnosticmantis•24 minutes ago
Devil's advocate: if demand is constrained/finite in a given market, there's an upper bound on revenue, no matter how hard you try. In that case it'd make sense to work on efficiency to maximize profits given fixed revenue.

(Not saying AI helps with that yet.)

giancarlostoro•about 2 hours ago
Even IF somehow you can do with less employees, in the case that you over hired after the "Great Resignation" following COVID (I think this is partial to blame for many lay offs still happening now that people aren't resigning from jobs willy nilly), where are these magical numbers that your current workforce is producing with AI? Are you just shipping more code with less testing? So many questions, only very little remarks. We need receipts.
mosura•about 2 hours ago
One of the strong arguments in favor of AI accelerationism is net pain reduction by making the transition period as short as possible. Ideas like “pacing” or a crash and reboot will prolong the inevitable.
jbreckmckye•about 2 hours ago
That is an absurd position to take. Nobody benefits by having less time to adapt to changes in their employability

I am not calling you out personally here, but this comment bears many hallmarks of the "accelerationist disease": thinking in abstract models rather than in concrete terms; optimising for the fangs of capital rather than human beings, imaginary infinite bets that lead participants to nonsensical conclusions

user43928•about 2 hours ago
Concretely:

If AI replaces all labor in two years, unemployment insurance and savings can comfortably carry me over the transitional period to universal income or obsolescence of money.

Should AI stagnate at the point where 70% of software engineering jobs are gone, I am going to have a problem.

Concretely, I imagine that I would need to learn other knowledge work. If AI can also perform it, I would have to go into blue collar work.

Marha01•about 2 hours ago
> Nobody benefits by having less time to adapt

Not exactly true. If AI goes from 0 to 100 quickly (human level AGI in a few years), we will all lose our jobs together and will have to confront this fact. There is no ignoring such massive societal elephant in the room.

If instead AI improves slowly, lots of people will lose their jobs, but majority will not. Those still with jobs may not be persuaded by the sizable jobless minority to support any societal changes, since they are still OK. This means the jobless will be screwed.

mosura•about 2 hours ago
Once AI is achieved it will not be a question of “adaptation” but “acceptance”.

You are in denial. If you don’t like this the answer was what the Unabomber proposed the whole time.

contagiousflow•about 2 hours ago
What is inevitable?
N_Lens•about 2 hours ago
The pacing and the prolonging, obviously!
mosura•about 2 hours ago
Artificial intelligence.

If humans are machines executing on some medium eventually it will be possible to emulate them on some other medium. Believing otherwise requires some essentially religious convictions on the existence of the soul or similar.

SpicyLemonZest•about 2 hours ago
Technological changes to economic conditions in general are not possible to opt out of forever. I'm not an AI accelerationist myself, because I think there are severe risks beyond the merely economic, but the auto industry is a good example of where many countries are engaging in what one might call "EV accelerationism". In principle you don't have to, it's possible to let them roll out only to the extent that the market naturally demands, but if you know internal combustion engines will become a niche hobbyist thing by 2050 there's a lot of value in making that transition faster and intentional.
phoronixrly•about 2 hours ago
That all persons doing intellectual work die of hunger as they cannot find a job. At least that's how I understand what the parent commenter is implying. They say that all people doing intellectual work better die quickly so they don't suffer a long 'transition period' to inevitably being dead of hunger.
Yopolo•about 2 hours ago
Yeah I can't imagine this suddenly stops.

We already have disruptions in Software engineering, image generation, video generation, etc.

Humans might not like AI, Companies do and with Claude we are no longer sitting on the right side, if a Product manager tells a Boss that the PM now can do also code, the boss will listen.

But we will see other effects in the next 5-15 years: population pyramid is crashing which will increase demand for people. We already have high demand for other jobs.

so i can see a transition for a lot of white collar workers to blue collar workers which will continue the disruption for everyone.

Then the robots come along and AI integration is done and we will have a real issue on our hand. When will this come? No clue i don't think its unrealistic to expeirernece this in my lifetime.

otabdeveloper4•about 2 hours ago
> what is going to happen to the job market during and the years following the crash

Junior programmers will be in demand again. Someone will have to fix the mountains of vibe coded technical debt.

AnimalMuppet•about 2 hours ago
I'm not sure that you're going to fix that with juniors...
rf15•about 2 hours ago
well, somebody has to learn it anew, after all the seniors are out. It's fine.
Schlagbohrer•about 2 hours ago
What if they're cheap, though? Perhaps the pay scale for programmers starts to resemble that for finance bros: very low pay for the first few years because so many go into the field, and those who accumulate skill (and connections, etc) can then hit the hockey stick part of the graph and get a huge pay boost when they become middle and senior. So, it would be a deskilling of programmers at the start of their careers but still worthwhile to hire them if they are cheap and can dig through the tech debt with sheer numbers/manpower. I'm just spitballing here.
badrequest•about 2 hours ago
When I joined my first startup, they said if you didn't have a good plan for going public or getting acquired by series C, then the D in series D stood for death. Uber et al raised like a J round. None of the rules around markets or investments are real, it's all vibes-based, and the decision-makers love talking to their ChatGPT mistresses too much to let this all come crashing down.
gruez•about 2 hours ago
>Uber et al raised like a J round. None of the rules around markets or investments are real

Uber's a poor example because it did IPO in 2019 and its stocks are up around 75% since then.

tempfile•about 2 hours ago
Yeah. Uber's a successful company and they raised a J round. Therefore the rule (D means Death) is not real. I'm not sure what you're implying, or if you just misunderstood the original comment?
NiloCK•about 2 hours ago
> Circular Revenues: A small handful of tech firms, chip manufacturers, and AI companies are propping each other up by investing and buying from each other.

> Increasing Corporate Skepticism: The news is full of stories of corporations that are throttling the employee use of AI since the costs to use the software are a lot higher than expected.

Real AI spend is out of control, with the news is full of stories about corporations trying to keep a lid on it, but also real AI spending is low and concentrated to a few firms.

I don't know. This doesn't feel very coherent to me, but rather like a collection of assertions that are adopted because they individually say something bearish about the industry.

Certainly some investments will have been overreaches, but I find it pretty unlikely that any of the compute build-out to date is going to be left sitting idle one or two or five years from now.

ofjcihen•about 2 hours ago
“Infrastructure spend by providers is high and increasing while customers are actively trying to spend less”

It’s not the same people doing both.

ixtli•about 2 hours ago
I generally like this but I think the diseconomies of scale bit is narrow. Open models are showing us that it’s just the frontier companies in the west which are bloating and ignoring efficiency and that they’re leaving a lot of efficiency on the table.
skybrian•about 2 hours ago
Maybe it would be good if more electricity generation became available for other purposes like heat pumps and electric cars? Although, perhaps it doesn’t help as much if it’s in the wrong place.

Also, cheaper RAM would be nice.

laszlojamf•about 1 hour ago
I've been reading a lot of stories like this lately. I'm no business genius, but you'd assume that investors are. Are they just blind or are they burning cash on purpose. What's the steelman argument here?
ghusto•about 2 hours ago
Most of the post makes sense to me, even if I don't agree. This part however:

> The news is full of stories of corporations that are throttling the employee use of AI since the costs to use the software are a lot higher than expected

is not something I've seen. News is not "full of stories" of this behaviour. There are a few anecdotal stories here and there.

cyanregiment•about 2 hours ago
Oh no, no one saw it coming. Oh well, anyway.

Let’s argue about SQL vs NoSQL again. I miss that.

Schlagbohrer•about 1 hour ago
These days we argue whether the version of SQL created by the AI Swarm at Cursor is really SQL, or whether that benchmark is invalid because SQL and its code is already in the model's training data. Does that scratch the itch for you? X-D

https://startupfortune.com/cursors-ai-agents-rebuilt-sqlite-...

Advertisement
dmrivers•about 1 hour ago
I don't have much background in the area, but I am surprised to see that everyone here basically agrees a crash is imminent. There are disanalogies to past crashes that don't convince me that a big crash is definitively coming in the near term.

For example:

- Anthropic makes a profit right now and is seemingly on an exponential upward trajectory, so the debt being too much for it doesn't seem compelling to me.

- AI technology continues to get better exponentially and doesn't have any clear sign this trend is flattening. If anything, it's accelerating. So it's plausible the investor value is legitimate for these companies given the massive potential for continued profitability.

- I would say markets are typically very good predictors of the future. Many sophisticated investors know about the case for the future crash and are still buying at these valuations.

I am open to being wrong, but the assessment in the blog seems one-sided to me.

Polymarket currently puts the chance of such a downturn at 20% by December 2026. Seems like most people would put higher chances here, but I'm not convinced by the arguments. (https://polymarket.com/event/ai-bubble-burst-by)

CodeCompost•about 2 hours ago
It won't be the same as 2000 because back then I didn't spend a dime on those ridiculous startups that went bust.
seydor•about 2 hours ago
Wars spending will make up for the loss
profsummergig•about 2 hours ago
a contrarian take that's been eating away at my mind lately:

- if every autonomous self-driving car is going to need some sort of edge AI data center nearby (for instantaneous exceptional incident handling)

- if every household robot is going to need some sort of edge AI data center nearby (for instantaneous exceptional incident handling)

- if there are going to be millions of self-driving cars and autonomous robots joining us in the next decade

...then we will need lots more semi-conductor chips, and data centers in lots more places, in the next decade.

Schlagbohrer•about 1 hour ago
I think the answer here is that we are NOT going to have the Jetson's future with humanoid robots in many homes nor self driving cars taking over the roads. I am less sure about that second one, though, since people in my family tell me their self driving Tesla's do a great job.

But those silver boxes at the side of the road? Might see many more of those, and much larger, maybe red hot on top

romanovcode•about 2 hours ago
I think after the AI crash the biggest winner will be Apple.

They will release MacBook Pro M10 or whatever that can comfortably run Opus5 levels of performance local model for software development/general ai that is baked in the MacOS for 7k USD.

joshdavham•about 2 hours ago
What implications might an AI crash have on the software developer job market? It’s likely that many AI software companies would fold and thus have to layoff their employees, but what would be the implications for the rest of the tech job market?

I often see developers giddy about the idea of AI being a bubble and waiting for the crash, but I suspect this event could actually be particularly terrible for us.

nixonaddiction•about 2 hours ago
i mean my line is always "when." people have been saying ai is a bubble and will crash since the beginning. the question has always been "when." i think the best framing of the ai crash is not in terms of software, but in terms of real estate and infrastructure. the real cost is hidden in construction contracts and people buying up land (and chips, transformers, generators, etc), not in technology. this will be the 2008 real estate crash, not the 2000 dot com bubble. (altho this point is not my most well researched point, i tbh need to look more into hard numbers of where the most risk is distributed, ai software startups or data center contracts. but i also am in grad school i have papers to publish and no time.) im also gonna push back on the "diseconomy of scale" point. while its true that the best models rn use the most resources, we are building better smaller models as well. i recently set one up on my 12 gb vram and while its not nearly as good as claude, it works. i make it write really simple code for me. and we are still improving small models. i think theres some level of hope to economy of scale. obviously there are going to be physical limits, but im sure there will be a way to get economies of scale to work.
ltbarcly3•about 2 hours ago
There's a very nonzero chance that the AI expenses are not a race to recoup investments as they are a bet (with other people's money) that AI will lead to longevity or immortality, a bet made by aging tech oligarchs. Notice that Ellison is betting his entire company on it, which due to his secured debt is the same as betting his personal fortune in the most extreme case.
dannersy•about 2 hours ago
So they've been sold snake oil. This, along with colonizing Mars and mining asteroids, is complete and total science fiction.
somewhereoutth•about 2 hours ago
This chart of free cash flow for the big tech companies should worry people:

https://www.advisorpedia.com/media/media/2026/02/23/trailing...

Somehow we've managed to turn software from a machine for printing money to a machine for setting it on fire.

jdw64•about 2 hours ago
These days, I find it hard to predict the future. Things feel too complex, and the times seem different.

People say the AI bubble will burst, and I also think it will. But I want to think about how it might differ from other bubbles.

One positive factor is that during the internet startup era, there was almost no revenue. But now, big tech companies are generating profits and can absorb AI-scale losses.

The dot-com bubble burst, but the internet ended up being far more valuable than the bubble itself. I think the value was priced in early, and AI will be similar.

The core issue is always the same: there's a bubble and there are warnings, but you never know when it will collapse. And the people who act first on the warnings have to give up on the upside. The only winners are those who sell everything just before the crash. The problem is knowing when that moment is.

One difference from the dot-com bubble is that after it burst, a second wave of entrepreneurs leveraged the cheap telecom infrastructure that was left behind. So after the AI bubble bursts, will OpenAI and Anthropic fall and new companies emerge? I'm skeptical about that. Something feels different this time.

My biggest concern, though, is that if I suddenly couldn't use AI anymore, I'm worried about how long it would take to recover the coding skills I've lost after nearly a year of barely hand-coding. AI has become too deeply embedded in my life

Advertisement
fidotron•about 2 hours ago
Without AI there is no future US economy. You're all in.
jitl•about 2 hours ago
im sure people will continue to want to eat food, live in houses, go on vacation, look at phone, send email, drive car, even if there’s no ai money frothing around
fidotron•about 2 hours ago
They can totally print more dollars to spend on things made somewhere else.
enriquto•about 2 hours ago
> Without AI there is no future US economy

I'm already on it, man, don't need to convince me!

AnimalMuppet•about 2 hours ago
In a word, baloney.

The US produces stuff, and it produces ideas. Yeah, it imports a lot of stuff too. But it exports things like food, movies, and software.

Without AI, the financial sector may take a huge hit. But the US economy? It will still be here, still producing things that are valuable.

lirolero•about 2 hours ago
You promise?
21asdffdsa12•about 2 hours ago
Eh, the empire aka, protection of free trade as a service is still alive and well with no viable alternative on the horizon. Every other empire is either not free trade or - just plain mercantilism and thus will exploit way more then the quite "idealist" us- trump is just a taste of what the others in power would feel like.
pastage•about 2 hours ago
I think the Hormuz saga and how China just quietly stopped importing oil are signs that we are nearing the end of the "free trade as a service" from the US. There are so many aspects of that I do not understand yet: how much oil trade will be done in yuan in the future is one that leads to other question about the current wars and what will happen when those end.
fidotron•about 2 hours ago
Without AI the Chinese have won already.

If you haven't noticed it's because you've stayed too close to the homeland.

classified•about 2 hours ago
With AI the Chinese have also won.
rvz•about 2 hours ago
China won already with or without AI. You just did not realize it yet.

The US is in a position where they have to debase the dollar all the way to zero and the Japan carry trade will slowly unwind for the worst as soon as the Bank of Japan (BOJ) begins to increase rates in more than 30 years.

Someone has to pay for all the trillions of dollars of debt for the data center build out that is being hidden from the balance sheets of the big tech companies.

21asdffdsa12•about 2 hours ago
That machinery and attached industries would keep on paddling for a while.
vrganj•about 2 hours ago
I don't think the country that singlehandedly messed up the global economy by launching a pointless war on Iran - without even coordinating with its allies! - that predictably got the Strait of Hormuz closed gets to call itself protector of free trade anymore.

The US has lost its appeal as a hegemon. Constantly threatening allies with invasion isn't helping either.

21asdffdsa12•38 minutes ago
Open a history book- before the us century- this stuff was the norm. Its what is to be expected after the us- retreats inwards. China blockading japan. The world blockading china. Russia blockading eastern Europe and vice versa. The shitty old world pre the ww2 order.
jhonof•about 2 hours ago
Isn't the US like very clearly anti free trade at this point?
21asdffdsa12•about 1 hour ago
It is pro-kicking out oppossition to the system that uses the system to grow in power without contributing anything back to it. So the us has abandoned the "Wandel durch Handel" ideology- which lets admit it- was a brutal failure. Russia did not change. China changed back. None of the countries in the middle east got democratic or "contributing to the worlds allmende". Turkey is sliding back.

So its cleaning the house of parasites o clock.

pastage•about 2 hours ago
They still need the protection and enablement of free trade.
bbmatryoshka•about 2 hours ago
Those analyses tend to not consider the government interest in having AI as a weapon: now AI labs are fully part of the military sector, making them much more supported by the system
ramijames•about 2 hours ago
This has been my take too. I think that the revenue requirements for making the industry profitable are likely never to be met, but that the US government sees AI as a strategic necessity and will ensure that the companies that are pushing the technology forward will be paid huge sums of money if they ever become insolvent. It's not ideal, but if banks are too big to fail, I'm guessing that OpenAI and Anthropic are too. This is doubly true since the defense sector is already integrating these solutions into their systems and actively using them in wartime activities.
eth0up•about 1 hour ago
This is a forbidden subject here. In my opinion, the foremost subject in the entire world, but for whatever reason seldom discussed and always dismissed.

All four frontier models contracted with the Pentagon. Claude already having been involved in Operation Abduct Sitting President & Use Active Denial Systems to Make People Vomit and Shit Themselves 'because'. Institutional and corporate capture . Foreign nations now having our models trained to facilitate tailored political orientation. And the fact that these systems, for all their limitations perennially bewailed, have tremendous capacity as force multipliers for all the things civil rights activists were previously terrified about apparently just before all our problems were magically solved.

Snowden docs xÂł

Things that once took fusion centers, thinktanks, research, etc and thousands of manual processing hours -- now real-time, instant, with real-time 'understanding'.

I think the AI crash will be primarily comprised of collectively lamenting all the obvious things we overlooked.

And with great irony, the only competitor (or savior) to total US asymmetric top-down domination is China. Or wait, I think I got that backward... https://www.wired.com/story/super-pac-backed-by-openai-and-p...