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#google#science#model#research#models#large#https#might#loop#engineering

Discussion (55 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

cjbarberabout 1 hour ago
From Jeff's twitter post:

> Our general approach is to automate the experimental loop. We think this approach is broadly applicable across many different fields of science and engineering. We’ll initially focus on ML research and engineering, but believe the approach can help with important subproblems in nearly every one of the fourteen <at>NAE Grand Challenge problems. We think doing this well requires strong expertise in machine learning as well as large-scale systems.

See also: https://www.nae.edu/20782/grand-challenges-project

Those 14 are:

NAE Grand Challenges for Engineering

1. Make Solar Energy Economical

2. Provide Energy from Fusion

3. Develop Carbon Sequestration Methods

4. Manage the Nitrogen Cycle

5. Provide Access to Clean Water

6. Restore and Improve Urban Infrastructure

7. Advance Health Informatics

8. Engineer Better Medicines

9. Reverse Engineer the Brain

10. Prevent Nuclear Terror

11. Secure Cyberspace

12. Enhance Virtual Reality

13. Advance Personalized Learning

14. Engineer the Tools of Scientific Discovery

LogicFailsMe15 minutes ago
Sandbox 2.0

But also, solar power is already economical.

elicash4 minutes ago
Seems to have been developed in 2008, which explains the "economical" framing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Academy_of_Engineerin...
glaslong3 minutes ago
At this point the Hard Problem is policy to get out of solar's way.
staplers4 minutes ago

  3. Develop Carbon Sequestration Methods
If only we could invent a solar-powered, self-replicating, carbon-stacking, habitat-building machine..
la647101 minute ago
Please add fixing neuro issues like autism add etc on the list. It creates a huge burden on families.
tcp_handshaker37 minutes ago
Acquisition back by Google in 3 years, with nothing to show for it. VCs will make a ton.
returnInfinity1 minute ago
Google stock would drop big if this new company was being funded by competitors
tgma34 minutes ago
and... the VC is Google.

Gotta compensate them somehow.

ex1fm3ta7 minutes ago
Sometimes you got to find a way to buy the silence of your top employee, to prevent them from going to the competition. This "start-up" is shallow as hell
DataDaoDe34 minutes ago
My thoughts exactly
dude25071128 minutes ago
For all we know, they could have been successfully working on "10. Prevent Nuclear Terror" for the last 80+ years.
pelagicAustral23 minutes ago
Really seems to embrace the "Making the world a better place by <<extremely convoluted, highly technical, jargon loaded mission statement>>"
ramon15632 minutes ago
"Our mission is straightforward" continued by the most complex sentence on that page. Wondering what the definition of straightforward is now
pphysch25 minutes ago
Right. What about the scientific hardware (instruments, sensors, robotics)? Partnerships with existing research institutions? Dealing with restricted data?

Modernizing science is a lot more complicated than just optimizing the inner experimental loop, but their hiring page implies it's a pure ML lab focused mainly on model development.

arjieabout 1 hour ago
This is very cool. It might be a new scientific revolution to have computer-driven discovery. So often we find things that are "this could have been done 20 years ago" and with an indefatigable searcher perhaps we'll close all those things. Though it does remind me of that Ted Chiang (I think) story where humans and superhumans coexist and all the science of the former is meta-studies of the work of the latter.
PaulDavisThe1st37 minutes ago
> It might be a new scientific revolution to have computer-driven discovery.

And ... it might not.

arjie37 minutes ago
True, nothing might be anything. But I'm an optimist :)
claiir33 minutes ago
The site itself is really leaning into the “made with Fable” aesthetic
pelagicAustral27 minutes ago
Why are people so sour about this?? I can read the site easily, its clear, performs well on mobile, what else do you want? Why is so offensive to people that models trained on tailwind or whatever?
swalsh24 minutes ago
If this was a design firm, it might matter. But this is mostly a hiring ad for engineers, and a landing page for VC. I'd judge them more if they actually put effort into it.
jonas2120 minutes ago
And on top of that, the HTML is simple and readable too. I wish more sites were like this.
make324 minutes ago
it's just a low effort snark comment, don't offer think it
slopinthebag21 minutes ago
Because it’s lame and aesthetics matter.
swalsh25 minutes ago
let me rephrase that:

"The site itself demonstrates the team is spending their money in the places that matter, and using quick solutions for the stuff they need but isn't mission critical"

IshKebab21 minutes ago
At least it isn't dark purple.
stephantulabout 1 hour ago
I’ve always felt that the idea that science is bottlenecked and therefore needs more automation only works for a very narrow definition of what science is, and entails a very specific view on what it should be.
hobofanabout 1 hour ago
> only works for a very narrow definition of what science is

And so does academia. It's just that instead of AI and robotics, PhD students are thrown onto problems that are in large parts slightly tweaked reconfigurations of similar experiments.

Especially in chemistry, biochemistry, material sciences there is a large space of discoveries that are barely "novel" in an intellectually stimulating way, but still highly valuable that can be explored orders of magnitudes faster than is currently the case.

stephantul27 minutes ago
That is true, I’ve seen people do biochemistry and geology work, and it did look very mind-numbing.

Then again, gassing rats and taking biopsies is not something you can do with AI.

porridgeraisin30 minutes ago
Yep. A communications professor where I did my MS says a 200usd/mo claude sub (which ant gives for free) does as much work as 5 grad students. It's mostly like you said, trying out new ideas rapidly.
tcp_handshaker38 minutes ago
Lets keep your comment out of the VC pitch deck shall we?
Noe209725 minutes ago
This looks like a realization of "benevolent self conscious AIs agreeing to cooperate with mankind to do great stuff". Often in these tales, there is a hidden cost to it: the AI has its own agenda, or does crazy experiments with humans mind/brain. I'm wondering what shape will take that plot twist in reality :)
Taikhoom201043 minutes ago
The problem is all these new labs don't have any competitive advanatge amongst each other, talent can only take one so far, though Jeff is a legend no doubt.

Models are commodities the applications eg. BaseTen, OpenRouter should capture the value.

https://taikhooms.substack.com/p/why-openrouter-can-be-the-n...

compiler-guy36 minutes ago
The company is developing an application, or a class of applications. Not a new model.
make323 minutes ago
I think Google's branding was starting to be too poor in AI to get top talent, they needed the refresh
malux8531 minutes ago
Model routers - send all of your data through a third party who totally swears not to peek at it.

If youre doing anything worthwhile (advanced research, classified work, high value industrial research, health data, or anything high value) then sending your data through a third party like that is insane.

adfm13 minutes ago
FHE
Johnny_Bonkabout 1 hour ago
For sure made with Claude code for front end, but I’m excited to see where they go
melodyogonnaabout 1 hour ago
Oh wow, that's a blow to Google, what's with the talent scarcity in ML. Though if this goes anywhere Google will likely buy them back.
FailMore44 minutes ago
Google down $160Bn so far since the leaving announcements. Those are some valuable people!
IAmGraydon37 minutes ago
Google is literally at the same stock price it was on Monday. This is a normal daily fluctuation for them.
jfrbfbreudhabout 1 hour ago
Google is backing it.
swalsh36 minutes ago
By the middle of the 2030's the world we live in will be unrecognizable.
kingofthehill9833 minutes ago
I agree, for better or for worse.

If I had to bet my money, it would be on "for worse".

dude25071125 minutes ago
It will not be owned by top 1%?
swalsh22 minutes ago
That seems to be the one unchanged variable of time.
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syntaxing43 minutes ago
This reminds me of Three body problem and how the scientist discovered the high strength wire was through quick physical experiments and use them as input to an AI model to determine if it works.
deerstalker42 minutes ago
National Labs in the US have been doing this for a while now. I feel like the private sector will take the lead soon.
pphysch18 minutes ago
Why? Science is wildly unprofitable on the scale of an individual private firm.
flakinessabout 1 hour ago
> we have pioneered massive scale computing and led the creation of critical infrastructure, products, and foundational AI advances that the world relies on, including multiple generations of Google Search, Google Ads, Google News, Google Translate, Google File System, MapReduce, BigTable, Spanner, TensorFlow, Pathways, TPUs, AlphaChip, AlphaStar, AlphaCode, AlphaFold, Gemini, model distillation, mixture-of-experts model architectures, word2vec, sequence-to-sequence models, chain of thought reasoning, neural architecture search, and multiple generations of Large Language Models (LLMs) among others.

holy shit. I've known this, but...

sidcool41 minutes ago
I am available for hire.
numbers_guy31 minutes ago
When they say experiments, do they mean using physics simulators?
danielmarkbruce6 minutes ago
in AI/ML, no. They are just going to automate AI/ML research to start with. Totally doable.

For some of the other things, undoubtably yes.

ChrisArchitect38 minutes ago
Related:

Jeff Dean leaving Alphabet

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49184746

searine38 minutes ago
Computation is not the hard part of discovery.
1970-01-01about 1 hour ago
I'm skeptical of any Engineering loop that doesn't include reality (as in touch grass) feedback. Pure logic and reasoning is the domain of Maths and Science (philosophy). Surely it will work, but it will not "be able to solve any learning loop".
LarsDu8813 minutes ago
I'm almost certain the goal of this startup is to make physical automated research labs guided by RL
XenophileJKOabout 1 hour ago
How is that different than video input?
1970-01-01about 1 hour ago
There are over 2 dozen known senses to reality. Video input is a fraction of a sense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sense#Artificial_sensation_and...

bezko42 minutes ago
So Ralph Wiggum in a suit?
mosfetsabout 1 hour ago
Is this a joke? Site is not loading for me.
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yddryhry35 minutes ago
you people worship money and money only and cannot see vaporware because of it.
daishi5518 minutes ago
Yeah what these guys are mainly known for is vaporware

> we have pioneered massive scale computing and led the creation of critical infrastructure, products, and foundational AI advances that the world relies on, including multiple generations of Google Search, Google Ads, Google News, Google Translate, Google File System, MapReduce, BigTable, Spanner, TensorFlow, Pathways, TPUs, AlphaChip, AlphaStar, AlphaCode, AlphaFold, Gemini, model distillation, mixture-of-experts model architectures, word2vec, sequence-to-sequence models, chain of thought reasoning, neural architecture search, and multiple generations of Large Language Models (LLMs) among others.