Back to News
Advertisement
Advertisement

⚡ Community Insights

Discussion Sentiment

41% Positive

Analyzed from 2746 words in the discussion.

Trending Topics

#prices#beef#more#those#inflation#meat#market#price#high#barbed

Discussion (67 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

TulliusCicero•about 1 hour ago
> A new pick-up truck that once cost $40,000 now runs to $100,000. A wooden fence post has gone from about $6 to as much as $19. A quarter-mile roll of barbed wire has doubled, from $60 to $130. Everything he uses day to day, he says, has jumped in price since the Covid pandemic.

I know why pick-ups have gone up in cost (though I don't think it's quite to 2.5x levels like suggested here since the pandemic), but wooden posts and barbed wire, it's less clear why those are so much more expensive now.

dhx•2 minutes ago
For lumber, data at [1] indicates much volatility in North American lumber prices from January 2023 to February 2026. Trough-to-peak prices for 2023, 2024 and 2025 have been over 30% across a given year. The main difference for 2026 so far is the stability of prices which have remain peaked for half a year.

Now is the perfect time for someone being overly dramatic to say "In the 2 years since July 2024, lumber prices have increased 47%, significantly higher than inflation".

But someone else could also say "Lumber prices are the same as July 2025 even though inflation has risen" or "Lumber prices are up just 10% in the 3 years since July 2023, lower than the rate of inflation across these 3 years".

[1] https://madisonsreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/07/IndexG...

jermaustin1•43 minutes ago
> it's less clear why those are so much more expensive now.

It's basically, because everything else has gotten more expensive. Labor + fuel + wear and tear on equipment + raw materials.

Inflation of a single thing, will have effects on anything down stream of that thing.

And then there is the "greed" aspect, though overstated, where a company will see that costs have gone up in other sectors, so they raise their accordingly. This has been claimed, but I'm not sure how much it actually happens.

kevin_nisbet•28 minutes ago
>It's basically, because everything else has gotten more expensive. Labor + fuel + wear and tear on equipment + raw materials.

Don't forget taxes (tariffs) have also increased substantially. Even if a supplier isn't paying tariff's, if their competitors are they can often just raise their prices, or their prices go up due to the supply/demand shift.

goalieca•17 minutes ago
Inflation from Covid spending is what got us. It was horrible before tarrifs.
hn_throwaway_99•36 minutes ago
The "greed" aspect is always bullshit unless there is a specific instance of market failure like monopoly power or collusion. This has definitely happened, so I'm not discounting it, but in those cases folks should just say the issue is monopoly concentration or collusion.

Saying "greed" comes from people who fundamentally believe economics doesn't exist, or don't understand it. Everyone in the economy is "greedy". Consumers want to pay the lowest possible prices, and producers want to generate the most profit. Nobody starts a business to be a charity, and businesses will always set their prices to maximize profits.

If prices have gone up, the question to ask is why. Is there not enough competition? Have input prices risen? Why are consumers willing to pay more? Saying greed is just a bullshit boogeymanization that politicians like to spout.

falsemyrmidon•33 minutes ago
Because markets are neither rational nor perfectly elastic.
bryanlarsen•9 minutes ago
I assume the posts come from Canada, so are heavily tariffed. And the barbed wire might be produced in the US, but steel producers have raised their prices to match the level of tariffed imported goods.
yojo•38 minutes ago
At the beginning of the pandemic all the mills cut production anticipating economic collapse that didn’t come. Prices spiked on high demand and low production.

Mills did ramp back up, but it’s unclear to me if they used it as a chance to do so slowly/preserve margins. Lumber never got close to pre-pandemic levels.

Tariffs probably also play a role here. About a quarter of US lumber comes from Canada, and barbed wire is just steel with a little bit of processing.

For products with little value add there’s not anywhere for the tax to be absorbed, and no real way for domestic producers to quickly scale up, even if they wanted to.

hn_throwaway_99•42 minutes ago
Generalized inflation affects everything. Energy prices have gone up, labor prices have gone up.

The people who sell the barbed wire and wooden posts presumably like to be able to eat, so they need to raise their prices to be able to afford groceries, etc.

dannyw•26 minutes ago
Logistics and labor.

People under-estimate the cost of logistics and transport. Every inch of travel for any input, component, or the final product has to be paid; and even a wooden fencepost typically moves between at least 5 different locations before reaching retail.

Let's use wooden posts as an example:

  1. Forest. Trees are cut down into logs, and then transported to...
  2. Lumbermill. Logs are cut to size, and then transported to...
  3. Treatment plant. Without it, your fencepost won't last for every long, and then transported to...
  4. Distributor location. And then transported to...
  5. Store (e.g. Home Depot or whatever). And then you pick it up, or get it delivered to you.
Every inch, every mile, you're paying for the energy, inefficiencies, and labor involved.
Ekaros•24 minutes ago
I am starting to think that there might be lot less competition on free markets than we think. And many markets tend to be established with big enough players. So they have stopped competing. If new entrants try to come well they might be undercut or simply bought out.
win311fwg•9 minutes ago
It is highly unlikely that big players are even able to emerge in a free market. All big businesses we know are big because they found a so-called moat. But I suppose we'll never know for sure as you have a greater chance of winning the lottery while simultaneously being struck by lightning than ever seeing a free market.
ricardonunez•38 minutes ago
I work with contractors and my family own a GC company. After Covid, construction material prices increased a lot due to multiple reasons like supply chain issues, and high demand from the housing boom. Lumber, fencing materials, and steel products were all affected. Although some prices have go down from their peaks, many never returned to pre-2020 levels, so products like fence posts and barbed wire are still expensive.
sssilver•42 minutes ago
Because people who sell wooden posts and barbed wire use pickup trucks, among other things that have gone up in price.
stronglikedan•38 minutes ago
The pick-up thing is definitely true, and is also affecting the used market just as significantly
creaturemachine•35 minutes ago
> but wooden posts and barbed wire

Less clear? Check your tariffs.

win311fwg•28 minutes ago
> but wooden posts and barbed wire, it's less clear why those are so much more expensive now.

I am seeing way more active paddocks of grazing cattle now as compared to a couple of years ago. The world is complex and there is never an expiation that can be given in a short soundbite, but the primary driver is no doubt that higher beef prices compelled more people to try and raise cattle, which resulted in them needing supplies required to raise cattle, and fences are one of those things you need to establish a secure paddock. The increase in demand for fencing supplies, without a corresponding increase in supply, necessities an increase in price.

recursivedoubts•about 1 hour ago
yeah, it's called inflation, it really sucks for everyone except the people who receive the new money early (mainly the banking system, but also people w/liquid assets + finance adjacent industries like housing) we should avoid it oh well i guess a bunch of people will go bankrupt and then get bought up at distressed prices by people with access to new money early wait a second...
notfromhere•about 1 hour ago
Its meat processors having a monopoly.
hn_throwaway_99•about 1 hour ago
I realize saying RTFA is against the rules, but this exact point (meat processors profiting off the price hikes) is specifically discussed, and refuted, in the article:

> Four companies - Tyson, JBS, Cargill and National Beef - control around 85% of American beef processing.

> That high level of market concentration has drawn accusations of price-fixing, even from President Trump.

> So you might expect that those four firms are currently making huge profits from high beef prices. Yet the opposite is happening.

> Tyson, the biggest of the four, reported in May that it had lost more than $500m on beef in the first half of its financial year.

ReptileMan•about 1 hour ago
monopsony
walthamstow•39 minutes ago
The amount of beef eaten per person per year in the USA is absolutely insane anyway:

USA - 37kg/capita

UK - 18kg/capita

We're not exactly shy of roast beef on this island either - the French nicknamed us "rosbifs" for a reason.

Schlagbohrer•37 minutes ago
According to the Economist magazine, the global problem is Chinese people eating more meat.
walthamstow•30 minutes ago
That's a deeply biased stance though, isn't it? It seems to say that USA and Brazil eating vast amounts of beef, the latter clearing the Amazon to do so, isn't a problem, it's only a problem now because of the Chinese.
Dylan16807•7 minutes ago
The word "problem" lacks nuance here. But it's a reasonable stand-in for "the factor that shifted and is the root cause".
gruez•30 minutes ago
Shouldn't per-capita consumption be factored in? Otherwise "the global problem" just boils down to whichever country is the "biggest" (by population or by GDP).
numbers_guy•36 minutes ago
I don't remember when I first found out, but it blew my mind that sausages in the US are typically beef. Like, what? Sausages are like quintessentially pork products. Like the whole point is that you have a lot of off cuts of a cheap meat and you make sausages. Beef sausages? Yeah, that's like a step change in wealth, haha.
JohnFen•about 1 hour ago
Beef prices have become simply insane. The value I get from beef can no longer justify the expense, so I've simply stopped buying it at all. I've largely replaced it with pork. Pork used to be the most popular meat in the US. I wonder if it will be again.
Schlagbohrer•17 minutes ago
Maybe americans will start eating Philippino pag-pag? (recycled meat from landfills)

https://youtu.be/c7gDBVmgIRA

recursivedoubts•about 1 hour ago
The neat part is that there is no inflation here: you just substituted a worse product for a better one and our friends in the govt call it good.
gruez•22 minutes ago
>you just substituted a worse product for a better one and our friends in the govt call it good.

I agree that somewhat distorts the effect of inflation, but at the same time it has to be done for inflation measures to make any sense. Otherwise we'd still be measuring the prices of heating coal and whale blubber.

JohnFen•about 1 hour ago
I very much disagree that it's a worse product.
svachalek•41 minutes ago
Why were you buying beef before, then? Hasn't pork always been cheaper than beef?
recursivedoubts•42 minutes ago
why weren't you always eating pork then? (I like both, prefer beef usually but buy pork often, dislike how hogs are treated tho compared to cows)
Noaidi•40 minutes ago
I knew a man who worked in the food industry for forty years. He told me to never eat U.S. pork the way it is processed today.
jLaForest•30 minutes ago
i mean that cant be true if you also admit to only buying it because your preferred product became too expensive.
thijson•42 minutes ago
I think Greenspan called it hedonics.
Jach•26 minutes ago
Even discount beef has worse discounts. My grocery store changed out the 50% discount stickers for meat at its sell-by date to 30%.
iamnothere•38 minutes ago
Probably, along with “meat fillers” and blends/grinds. And lots of ramen, which seems to have replaced old Depression-era standbys like hot dog casseroles and Campbell’s soup.
aleksandrm•38 minutes ago
Same here, I haven't had beef in over 2 years now. Chicken and pork only now, mostly chicken, like 90% chicken is all I eat now. Insane.
quacked•about 1 hour ago
My father-in-law grew up on a small-time farm and then went into environmental engineering as a professor, and briefly worked on the Secretary of Agriculture's staff in the Biden administration. He has told me that there are 3-5 (can't remember the number) colossal meatpacking corporations in the US that have laid waste to smaller-time competition, and now that the market is captured their owners and shareholders can skim basically whatever they want out of the enterprise. He also was advocating to have policy written that would stop chronic underpayment of slaughterhouse and meatpacking workers at these colossal firms and was told it was politically inviable.

Unrelated to this, but I have Alpha-Gal Syndrome, the anaphylactic allergy to red meat, which is spreading rapidly as the ticks colonize every square inch of nature in the US. In Arkansas 20% of people tested on a big free testing day were sensitized to the galactose-alpha-1,3-galactose molecule (AGS is sensitization + symptoms, not just sensitization.)

I think that things are going to get weird with beef in the US in the next few decades.

pingou•about 1 hour ago
From the article:

"Four companies - Tyson, JBS, Cargill and National Beef - control around 85% of American beef processing.

That high level of market concentration has drawn accusations of price-fixing, even from President Trump.

So you might expect that those four firms are currently making huge profits from high beef prices. Yet the opposite is happening.

Tyson, the biggest of the four, reported in May that it had lost more than $500m on beef in the first half of its financial year."

manyatoms•42 minutes ago
> In Arkansas 20% of people tested on a big free testing day were sensitized to the galactose-alpha-1,3-galactose molecule

What effect does this have on the person?

gruez•17 minutes ago
I wouldn't take the 20% figure at face value. If you only test for antibody reaction, you get an implausibly high number.

>A study of blood samples from military recruits, taken between 2001 and 2007, found that nearly half the recruits from south-central Missouri, where Ellison lives, had allergy antibodies for alpha-gal. [...]

>Only a fraction of people with antibodies to alpha-gal become allergic to it, and those who are often don’t realize it. Some react only to red meat. Some also react to milk, cheese, and other animal products that have alpha-gal. The symptoms are so delayed that people often blame them on food poisoning, irritable-bowel syndrome, gluten intolerance. In the U.S., according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, as many as half a million people have alpha-gal syndrome, but other researchers suspect that the number is higher.

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2026/07/06/the-tick-that-...

richwater•about 1 hour ago
The article specifically talks about how some of those huge meatpacking companies are losing money on cattle. I don't think it's them to blame in totality here.
markstos•44 minutes ago
Animal agriculture is a key driver of climate change: https://sentientmedia.org/how-does-livestock-affect-climate-...

Along with the high price, that's one more reason to not buy it.

onlyrealcuzzo•40 minutes ago
Beef is particularly egregious.

Poultry and even pork are about an order of magnitude more efficient.

It's interesting how long the market was wildly subsidized to hide the true cost of beef.

allcentury•39 minutes ago
There’s research now that high density rotational grazing does the opposite.
markstos•36 minutes ago
Link?
vitaflo•35 minutes ago
A person eating one single hamburger uses more water than an entire year of LLM use for the same person. Yet we are very concerned about water use in data centers, but nobody cares about McDonalds.
numbers_guy•38 minutes ago
All economic activity is a key driver to climate change. Why single out one thing? You're clearly imposing a self-serving moral judgement on other people.
shlant•28 minutes ago
> All economic activity is a key driver to climate change

what a pointless thought-terminating cliché

> You're clearly imposing a self-serving moral judgement on other people.

Just because you are the wrong side of morality does not mean they are incorrect

Noaidi•43 minutes ago
Some of need to eat animal foods to live because genetics. I am of Sami heritage and I am tired of people telling me my genetics are the problem.
markstos•33 minutes ago
Where I can learn more about the genetic need of people of Sámi heritage to eat animal food?

When I tried to search for the details, I found only that it was a traditionally meat heavy diet.

shlant•32 minutes ago
your infinitesimally rare edge case is not a negation of the comment you are responding to. Also I don't think there is even any good evidence that some people have genetic heritage that means they can only eat animal foods
dastbe•about 1 hour ago
you can increase profits through volume or margin.

right now we are in a whole economy experiment to see how long you can increase margin through price increases and shrinkflation.

bz_bz_bz•about 1 hour ago
Save you a click:

"The rancher is selling calves for record sums, but is not better off because he has higher costs. The feedlot company is selling for all-time high prices, but it also has to pay them in the first place. The packers are losing money because there is a limit to what they can charge. Restaurants and supermarkets also can only increase prices by so much."

ericmay•about 1 hour ago
Many people see this as a problem, but I see it as a normal function of market economies. Disruptions, changes in government policy, changes in consumer behavior, and more will over the long term just work themselves out. Of course some policies or seemingly "voluntary" policies may cause undue price increases, but even those work themselves out.

At the end of the day as more and more people want to consume the same products the prices for those are going to just go up.

When I see folks really hammering on price increases for products like beef or gas I can't help but think of how absolutely screwed we are in terms of addressing climate change if it involves consumer behavior.

cousinbryce•38 minutes ago
Beef and gas prices are up due to policy (tariffs, war) If anything, it shows how effective government policy can be. Ironically higher beef and gas prices are quite good for reducing carbon emissions.
ericmay•24 minutes ago
Well they are up at least in part due to policy such as tariffs and war which unfortunately is imposed upon us in the US (Russia invading Ukraine, Iran destabilizing the Middle East), but I also think an important factor is the increase in global demand for beef and other meat products.

Gas prices are a little less clear as it seems primarily the increases have been due to Iranian destabilization in the Middle East and less so tariffs, but gas prices do effect each country differently so increases here in the US are a lot less painful than, say, Singapore.

I agree with you that increases in the prices of both are good for reducing carbon emissions. I think it's interesting to see how folks are reacting to, what in my mind seem to be still incredibly low prices relative to the negative externalities. If we factored in the destruction and harm we're doing to the planet gas in the US should probably be more in the neighborhood of $20/gallon or something (that's a made up number and I'm just guessing) and beef probably should be quite a bit more expensive too. Though I think it's also worth pointing out gas prices are still lower than when Russia unjustly invaded Ukraine and if we can stomach those we can stomach these too.

notfromhere•about 1 hour ago
A lot of these markets aren't really functioning when there are many middlemen that have an 2-4 company oligopoly that choke out any actual competition.

Many markets don't really have 'competition'

ericmay•about 1 hour ago
No, markets still function anyway over the long term (monopolies go bankrupt and are disrupted all the time) and if you are worried about oligopoly you want to ensure that communism and state ownership of the means of production is stamped out to prevent monopolies.
JohnFen•about 1 hour ago
> Many people see this as a problem, but I see it as a normal function of market economies.

Both things can be true.

esafak•about 1 hour ago
Things might not work itself out in desirable ways. I imagine what will happen is that portions will shrink, and become adulterated. For example, a restaurant ostensibly using ground beef might partially substitute something cheaper... Food fraud is rampant in developing countries. One example:

https://www.foodnavigator.com/Article/2025/07/28/food-fraud-...

https://scijournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jsfa...

ericmay•43 minutes ago
Well if you care about portion size or the introduction of substitutes then you can change your buying habits. We only eat out for dinner at great restaurants because I can cook better food at home in a lot of cases.

You're going to have to change those habits anyway because even without inflation that has been ongoing since the pandemic began you still have a lot of pressure to push prices higher on beef and other "luxury" goods as global demand continues to increase, the environment becomes worse off and requires further regulation, &c. It's perhaps a head start, but the long term trend isn't toward lower prices regardless of the impact of inflation (for example).

ReptileMan•about 1 hour ago
There should be laws ensuring that every market there should be at least 5-6 players and is free or is declared natural monopoly/monopsony and regulated.

The in between you have all the bad from monopolies in the forms of cartels.

Noaidi•44 minutes ago
Welcome to the Polycrisis. Climate change, economic collapse, etc...

Just wait till El Nino hits this year.