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#taxi#drivers#alzheimer#same#where#job#gps#map#street#don

Discussion (51 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

cortic•about 1 hour ago
Taxi Drivers: The mean age at death is approximately 67.8 years.

General Population: in the same dataset, life expectancy averaged 74 years.

The average age at which patients are typically diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease is 79.

People in these jobs don't live long enough on average to get diagnosed, at the same rate. The same effect will happen in any job that lowers your life expectancy.

glitchc•about 1 hour ago
They are likely studying individuals that retired without getting fatally stabbed or shot on the job.
stackskipton•35 minutes ago
It's not violence from the job but their job was generally bad for their health in other ways. Sitting all day without getting up and driving around with windows down getting all this UV.

Also, older ones were exposed to a ton of cigarette smoke.

minraws•22 minutes ago
Also road accidents.
TacticalCoder•about 1 hour ago
That's very interesting but why do taxi drivers have a job that lowers life expectancy? Is it because they're sitting too much? Or because they're inhaling CO from cars too much? Or staying inside (the car) too much? Or is it just stressful?

For from the look of it it doesn't look like an exceptionally hard job (btw a brother of mine did years of "VTC": "Vehicule de Tourisme avec Chauffeur", basically high-end taxis without the "taxi" logo).

id•39 minutes ago
Because it doesn't pay very well. Being affluent increases life expectancy.
wilburx3•about 1 hour ago
Getting stabbed in the neck by filthy street urchins.
Barrin92•about 1 hour ago
As the paper points out that's accounted for in the analysis, because shockingly enough to most internet commentators researchers know that they need to control for confounding variables

https://www.bmj.com/content/387/bmj-2024-082194

jrflo•20 minutes ago
Always insane to me how people will just read the headline of an article and point out "flaws" based on what they assume the article says
nuxi•12 minutes ago
De Niro is 82, no Alzheimer's. /s
walthamstow•about 3 hours ago
> In one landmark 2000 study, neuroscientists compared the brains of licensed London taxi drivers with those of people who did not drive cabs.

Location is very important here. London cabbies have to pass The Knowledge which is an extremely difficult memory exam that only people with particular kind of brain can do.

genxy•22 minutes ago
People who would pass The Knowledge test might already develop dementia at a much lower rate.
graemep•about 2 hours ago
The first study referenced is in the US, and across 443 occupations.
artisinal•about 3 hours ago
Indeed. Elsewhere in the world taxi drivers just follow the GPS.
SoftTalker•about 2 hours ago
We had taxis long before GPS.

When I was in my early 20s I had a job delivering pizza. I very quickly learned the delivery area, I knew pretty much every street and alleyway and shortcut to get from one place to another. Much smaller than London but I think the human brain is very good at remembering routes and where things are in an area, as this would have been an evolutionary advantage (go out hunting and be able to find your way back). No GPS, didn't even carry a map with me. We had a large map on the wall at the store, and if I had to deliver to a street I didn't recognize I'd find it on the map, see where it was relative to the streets I did know, and then I never had any problem finding places.

OptionOfT•about 2 hours ago
My 2019 car had the cardinal directions in the mirror (N, NE, E, ES, S etc). My 2025 does not anymore. I hate it. I think it helps to get that baseline of orientation, and then you look at the street numbers, and it all starts to come together.
pryelluw•about 2 hours ago
Same. First thing they had me buy was a map book with all the local neighborhoods. The map on the wall helped get shortcuts from others. This is where I learned the difference between the different kinds of shortcuts. Some saved time, others distance, and some even potholes. It was a fun time.
al_borland•16 minutes ago
I suspect GPS has made this much worse. I shining example was an Uber I got in Chicago, where GPS doesn't work well due to all the buildings. The guy drove around the same block 3 times, blindly following the GPS. It was infuriating.
chuckadams•about 3 hours ago
The ones that do stopped being taxi drivers.
cobertos•about 2 hours ago
True, though the article does also mention another study not based on taxi drivers, but just living in high spatial complexity ZIP codes puts you at a lower risk.

> Research on cognitive maps points toward the same conclusion as the study on taxi drivers. In 2023, researchers ran a machine learning model on more than 22,500 people in a national dataset and were able to predict which ZIP codes had higher rates of Alzheimer’s with 84% accuracy based on how complex the environment was. Those living in spatially complex surroundings – the kind that force active map building, such as dense street networks with numerous intersections, diverse points of interest and landmarks, and multiple path options – were less likely to develop Alzheimer’s.

david-gpu•17 minutes ago
A dense street network with complex intersections also means living in walkable urban cores vs car-centric suburbs.
smolder•about 1 hour ago
I know an 80 year old who was a commercial truck driver for decades and still has a strong mental map for a pretty vast area. Anecdata, but I find it interesting.
Palomides•about 1 hour ago
or there's a million confounding factors around people living in dense cities versus rural areas
cjbgkagh•about 3 hours ago
I would assume that the task of being a taxi driver would act as a near constant test for Alzheimer’s, would be interesting to do GWAS studies on older taxi drivers and compare against taxi drivers who quit earlier in their careers.
mattlondon•about 2 hours ago
I guessed the probably died in a car accident or of something related to pollution exposure or being sedentary their entire adult lives.
don_esteban•about 2 hours ago
Yeah, that was the first thing that comes to mind.

And the second thing: What about modern taxi drivers that rely almost exclusively on GPS?

amelius•about 3 hours ago
YmiYugy•about 1 hour ago
I find the title highly misleading. The actual claim is a 40% lower chance (1 in 100 as opposed to 1 in 60) for taxi and ambulance drivers when compared to the average. That’s a big drop but the title implies that Alzheimer’s is rare in taxi drivers specifically and I don’t think the difference warrants that claim whatsoever.
fitsumbelay•24 minutes ago
First rule of attentioneering - If it bleeds, it ledes

Second rule - Got edge case? Got headline!

Havoc•about 3 hours ago
Seems strange to me that a specific type of thinking could influence something where most causes being investigated are physical
teeray•about 2 hours ago
Unless the arrow of causality is the other way: those that would tend to develop memory problems do not become or remain as Taxi drivers.
jvanderbot•about 2 hours ago
Right, so we're speedrunning the studies here. Best to just stopover on TFA and see what they found.

For example, airline pilots do not have a reduced level of alzheimers deaths, and that _certainly_ is not a place where you can coast with dementia.

And taxi drivers have _increasing_ anti-Alzheimer signals - with time, the areas that are known to diminish grow _more_.

jkahrs595•about 3 hours ago
Not strange when you realize thinking is also physical.
cesarvarela•about 2 hours ago
Wouldn’t thinking be like exercise for the mind? And we know what happens to people that don’t exercise
toomuchtodo•about 3 hours ago
Perhaps specific types of thinking cause somewhat sustained brain activity during waking hours that mitigates adverse physical changes leading to Alzheimer’s.

The opposite of this is how sleep and unconsciousness allows the brain to perform cerebrospinal fluid transfer based maintenance routines via the glymphatic system, and why sleep is important to neural health.

https://www.science.org/content/article/scientists-uncover-h...

al_borland•about 2 hours ago
My grandfather was a taxi driver and delivery driver for many years. He made it to 93 and I don't recall him dealing with any cognitive decline. He used to tell me different routes to get to a stadium that was closed before I was even born.
id•37 minutes ago
n=1
layer8•2 minutes ago
++n
tokai•about 3 hours ago
Taxi driver also live shorter lives than average, which would fit with lower levels of alzheimers. But interesting link nonetheless.
arielweisberg•about 3 hours ago
Can video games provide similar benefits?
jader201•about 3 hours ago
I’m sure Crazy Taxi provides the same benefits! :)
moduspol•10 minutes ago
If you can survive the high blood pressure!
bloomca•about 3 hours ago
The thing about taxi drivers is that they have something at stake, while video games have no fail state effectively. You can be punished in-game, but overall it does not matter.

Also video games in general are pretty derivative, so playing the same genre probably won't help much after a certain point. But playing different ones can be very helpful, I imagine (same with other mediums).

wavemode•about 1 hour ago
Yeah but, Taxi drivers usually don't hop around from place to place. They work in a specific metro area.
bloomca•about 1 hour ago
I assume there is enough variation to be aware of -- seasons change, constructions, car crashes, so you need to alter the route a bit. Today you have the maps with navigation, but I assume you still need to be quite aware on where to park, where is the best entrance to some places, etc. So you basically need to keep some fresh info on top of your mind.
dragontamer•about 1 hour ago
Maybe when played at a high level. But too many games are too casual without much mental effort.

I mean, they should be. Games are for fun, not for work.

bpodgursky•about 2 hours ago
Guys... Alzheimer's is 60-80% heritable, and driven largely by APOE genotype. No, you cannot get out of it with One Quick Trick. We have to find therapeutics to make real progress here.

This kind of misdirection is not helpful to the research community, or encouraging politicians to fund effective projects. Everyone WANTS a quick lifestyle change and will latch onto these things, but this is a real biological disease that needs real molecular fixes. Sorry, it's just how it is.

jmcgough•about 2 hours ago
Half of people with Alzheimer's carry at least one APOE ε4 allele. However, a full quarter of the population carries that mutation, and most carriers never go on to develop Alzheimer's. Lifestyle matters a lot here.

This kind of misdirection is not helpful for educating people on changes they can make now to reduce their risk, rather than waiting for a silver bullet. Alzheimer's research is well-funded in the US as the octogenarians running our congress are personally invested in it.

detourdog•33 minutes ago
My understanding is that there are forms of dementia more tied to genetics than "Alzheimer's". One that has links to genetics is Frontal temporal Dementia.
bpodgursky•about 1 hour ago
To the extent that lifestyle helps, which is not zero, you need to exercise. "Become a cabbie" is NOT an intervention that is going to help whatsoever.
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