Back to News
Advertisement
eerenberke about 2 hours ago 15 commentsRead Article on stoaexchange.com

DE version is available. Content is displayed in original English for accuracy.

Hi HN, we’re Eren, Berat and Kaan. We’re building Stoa (https://www.stoaexchange.com), a marketplace for new and used GPUs and AI servers.

GPUs are the collateral in the data center buildout. Today, financing terms mostly depend on the offtaker, meaning the company that has committed to use the compute.

If that company is a hyperscaler, the financing can look investment grade. If it’s a smaller cloud or startup, terms get expensive fast, even with the same hardware as collateral.

The lender’s problem is pretty reasonable. If the borrower defaults and we need to sell these servers, what can we actually get for them? There isn’t a good answer today.

We started brokering GPU deals to understand why. It was much more manual than we expected. The hardware is still traded through phone calls, forwarded spreadsheets and long email threads.

One week, a seller quoted us $200k for a server node and another quoted $240k for what looked like the same thing. Neither was necessarily wrong. They had different information and could only see their own corner of the market.

Before we could compare the quotes, we had to sort out the configuration, condition, warranty, location and delivery terms. It’s the same information Kelley Blue Book attaches to a used-car price through the year, trim, mileage and condition. “An H100 server” isn’t enough information to know what something is worth, just as “a used BMW” isn’t.

This is also just a bad way to buy or sell hardware. A buyer looking for the best price shouldn’t have to contact several brokers and dealers separately, repeat the same request and then untangle a pile of different quotes. Sellers shouldn’t have to search for demand one buyer at a time. A market of this size deserves better liquidity.

Stoa puts the request into one format and sends it to dealers that have gone through know-your-business (KYB) checks. We verify the company, who owns it and who is allowed to trade for it. Before the request goes out, the buyer confirms the exact configuration, quantity, condition, warranty, location, delivery terms and what will be checked during inspection. Dealers return firm quotes against that same request without seeing each other’s bids. Once a quote is accepted, payment, shipping, delivery and inspection are then tracked through settlement. We don’t take possession of the hardware.

We got more than $300M in requests for quotes (RFQs) during our first month.

The immediate goal is to make buying and selling this hardware less painful. As trades build up, they also leave lenders with actual resale evidence instead of list prices and one off appraisals.

We knew from the beginning that this couldn’t be a software only marketplace. GPU trading runs on relationships, and inventory isn’t shown to just anyone. Dealers need to trust the people bringing them clients, and clients need to trust that quotes will actually turn into trades. We built those relationships over time by brokering deals ourselves. Stoa gives people a cleaner way to trade, from the first RFQ through settlement, but it doesn’t replace the trust underneath. Those relationships, and the history of who actually follows through, are a big part of our process.

We’ve known each other for more than ten years. We have founded companies, traded interest rate derivatives, built trading and pricing systems for oil and gas. We learned GPU trading by doing the deals ourselves, and Stoa grew out of the problems we kept running into.

We charge a tiered fee on completed trades, with lower fees at higher volumes. It’s free to sign up at https://www.stoaexchange.com/signup. If you’ve bought, sold, financed or had to liquidate GPUs, would be great to hear your take!

Advertisement

⚡ Community Insights

Discussion Sentiment

100% Positive

Analyzed from 597 words in the discussion.

Trending Topics

#market#hardware#price#marketplace#escrow#support#rtx#thing#gpu#long

Discussion (15 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

iamcoder183 minutes ago
Will there be support for lower-end GPUs like RTX 4090s or RTX 6000 Pros in the future?
erenberke1 minute ago
We already support these!
StilesCrisis3 minutes ago
I could have sworn another startup doing this exact same thing was on here two weeks ago.
mayankabout 2 hours ago
I assume this is a strictly B2B proposition in spite of "built for every side of the GPU market" -- meaning I'm probably not going to be able to buy/bid on small (e.g. 2-8) lots of used, matched RTX 3090s for example?
erenberkeabout 2 hours ago
For now, we are focusing on institutions, since most of this hardware has strict export controls. We deal with all sizes though, we can do a single card to 1024 servers. Can always reach out to us to see if a specific request would fit in the marketplace or not
stevefan199932 minutes ago
But what about the GPUs that are considered defective for corporate and enterprise use, but perfect for personal use...say like A100s that maybe having ECC issues but I can live with that
erenberke21 minutes ago
We ask any seller to post the condition and testing reports for the hardware they sell, so there is no info asymmetry. As long as there is a willing buyer and a willing seller at the conditions specified, transaction goes through! We deal with A100s all the time.

Nice thing about these chips is that they have built in software that allows you to see the condition. The secondary market also supports the circular economy, most of these servers are proving to be useful longer than what the market initially thought. There is always a case to go with used equipment instead of new ones.

bklosky44 minutes ago
I’m very curious about how you’re fending off fraud— just wondering about how a lot of dark web transactions supposedly have escrow, but people waive it and then get burned. Do you have anything beyond KYC/escrow?
erenberke25 minutes ago
We use Stripe Connect to transfer the funds, and it is not a waivable process. In addition to KYC documentation, the team personally meets with any participant we onboard to the marketplace. We also have the ability to manually intervene in transactions if need be, but so far we have not had any transaction issues. It almost reminds me of how people were super skeptical of Uber and Airbnb when they first launched, but human trust goes a long way, sometimes further than we originally anticipate.

One thing that guides how we think about this is: we will never ask you to make the payment before you feel comfortable with the counterparty you are dealing with.

jawdatzabout 1 hour ago
Is pricing spot-only or do you support forward commitments? GPU supply deals seem to want term structure - a lab locking capacity for 6 months cares about a very different price than burst spot. Curious how you handle default risk on the longer terms.
erenberkeabout 1 hour ago
We do both! Solving for the forward curve has very interesting applications in the GPU market, as depreciation is a big factor.

We have credit limits/margins in place to be posted for any forward trades which helps with the default risk, similar to other commodity markets. Users can enter the delivery timing details as they create a request, and dealers will price accordingly.

Most of the hardware has super long wait times right now (16-24 weeks), and there is no market structure today that allows to price the differential between a spot, immediately available B300 server vs one with 16-24 week lead time. Our marketplace allows to observe that.

plainviewinstruabout 1 hour ago
this is sick — how does price discovery work? RFQ/orderbook?

also how are you dealing with fraud/recourse?

erenberkeabout 1 hour ago
glad you like it! we aggregate de-identified pricing from transactions we observe, and whenever you create a quote, you will see an indicative range of what we think your config is worth. This can deviate from the price you get based on the liquidity in the market, but from our experience, it has been super helpful especially for end users.

Anyone we onboard to the marketplace goes through strict know-your-business checks. We never release any payment to the sellers before a transaction is inspected and verified by the buyer, essentially like an escrow service but for free (instead of around 7% at escrow.com).

htrpabout 2 hours ago
hows this different from vast ? or some of the other players inn the space?
erenberkeabout 1 hour ago
Our primary focus is on trading the physical hardware, most of the marketplaces we see are rental focused. Our thesis is as open source models become stronger and stronger, owning your own hardware will become more prevalent
stevefan199931 minutes ago
vast.ai rents. this one sells