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68% Positive

Analyzed from 2034 words in the discussion.

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#cancer#mrna#keytruda#group#https#week#vaccine#moderna#vaccines#news

Discussion (117 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

GenerWork•about 3 hours ago
This is great news! I think people forget how anti-skin cancer protocols even as simple as applying suntan lotion weren't as popular as recent as 50-60 years ago. Lots of "sun children" of the 50s and 60s are now feeling the repercussions of only applying baby oil and are getting hit with lots of melanoma.
Insanity•about 3 hours ago
+1. Also, just to call out, it doesn't need to be _warm_ for you to need sunblock. Even when it's cooler / cloudier out there you can still get skin damage. Look for UV rating rather than temperature. Conversely, it being hot doesn't imply high-UV either.
jjice•about 3 hours ago
I didn't know about the UV index or what it meant until like three years ago. It blows my mind I went that long without understanding. It was actually wonderful to learn that I could just see if I needed sunblock based on a 0-10 scale.

We never wore sunscreen as kids because we didn't burn. I probably have had three sunburns in my life. Learned once I became an adult that that wasn't sound logic...

amluto•about 2 hours ago
Substantially better link:

https://www.merck.com/news/merck-and-moderna-announce-phase-...

Still no actual Phase 3 data presented.

ricardobayes•about 1 hour ago
Yes, however the trial succeeded. But by "how much", is not yet released. This trial was not against placebo, but the already existing, and effective Keytruda treatment.
cogman10•37 minutes ago
I believe both were done with Keytruda. Control was Keytruda without the mRNA treatment.

So this should answer the question of "how much better is this with the best we currently have".

anotherpaul•about 1 hour ago
This content is geo/IP fenced
CamelCaseName•about 1 hour ago
Hope this helps:

https://archive.ph/SQQ97

hummuscience•20 minutes ago
My father is currently dying of malignant melanoma with brain metastasis...

I wish this treatment was available a few years ago.

consumer451•about 3 hours ago
This appears to be a potentially huge win for health. The market has Moderna up 153% at time of writing, which is some sort of validation I suppose.

Related stories:

https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/merck-and-modernas-per...

https://www.reuters.com/legal/litigation/merck-moderna-say-m...

https://www.wsj.com/health/pharma/moderna-merck-vaccine-succ...

Jyaif•about 3 hours ago
oh nice. If it goes up another 100% I may not lose money on this stock anymore.
consumer451•about 3 hours ago
I mean, this appears to be validation of mRNA in general, right?
ianlevesque•about 2 hours ago
Saving a couple million people in the pandemic wasn’t validation enough?
bpodgursky•about 3 hours ago
And if it doubles after that, I may even beat a passive S&P 500 investment.
danjl•about 1 hour ago
Will this targeted approach be beneficial to other cancer types? Is there any data or theory about this class of drugs as a more general therapy?
HedonicEscal8r•about 1 hour ago
Yes, mRNA vaccines are promising for many but not all cancer types, and there are many ongoing clinical trials. There's also a lot we yet don't know about how to design them.

Here's a great blog post on this, "How to build a cancer vaccine, and whether they will work this time": https://www.owlposting.com/p/how-to-build-a-cancer-vaccine-a...

Here's the blog post I wrote on personalized mRNA vaccines: https://hedonicescalator.substack.com/p/did-paul-conyngham-r...

HedonicEscal8r•about 1 hour ago
One of the leading problems is that we don't know how to pick the right neoantigens (mutant cancer proteins) which can trigger the optimal immune response.

Moderna used a simple heuristic, "how likely is this antigen to show up on the cell surface?" which makes sense, since an antigen has to show up on the cell surface for the immune system to see it. But there's so much missing from this model, and we just don't have enough data. Failures in clinical trials of mRNA vaccines may well be caused by this problem. (Yes, this is a good problem for AI, if we can get enough data).

paulpauper•about 1 hour ago
Individualized immune cancer therapy has been touted as the next big thing for half a century. It's nothing new, and with few exceptions, such as skin cancer, has failed to yield much. scientists, for decades, have tired to harness the immune system to attackcancer and it almost never works.
bonsai_spool•about 1 hour ago
> Individualized immune cancer therapy has been touted as the next big thing for half a century. It's nothing new, and with few exceptions, such as skin cancer, has failed to yield much. scientists, for decades, have tired to harness the immune system to attackcancer and it almost never works.

"Almost never" is doing a lot of work. You may be aware that most drugs fail over the course of development and human trials?

Anyway, checkpoint inhibitor therapy is a massive boon to oncology and was only brought into widespread use over the past 15 years.

cogman10•31 minutes ago
> and with few exceptions

Those few exceptions have been monumental in how they've changed cancer treatment. Skin cancer has been particularly well treated with immunotherapy, but other cancers have also benefited from the exact same research and drugs (as it turns out, the specific mutations the immunotherapies like Keytruda target express in other cancers). The reason skin cancer gets so much attention is because it's one of the most commonly diagnosed and treated cancers. (Colon is more common, I believe, but it often doesn't get detected. Get your colonoscopies folks).

It has moved fast enough that I've heard from multiple oncologists that the all 5 year survivability numbers are dated because the treatments are newer than the studies.

We've come a LONG way in a very short period in terms of cancer treatment. It still sucks, but not as much as it once did.

HedonicEscal8r•about 1 hour ago
Personalized mRNA vaccines are in fact, extremely new, and only made possible by recent advances across multiple fields. This comment reveals a total lack of basic understanding on this topic.
cogman10•29 minutes ago
I believe the comment was talking specifically about immunotherapy rather than personalized mRNA. But I'd agree it's still misinformed as immunotherapy has been a game changer across multiple cancers.
nearbyyak•about 3 hours ago
Huge, uplifting, news, hope the study will bear further fruit. Considering that 90% of all clinical trials fail, it's good to read about a truly promising one for once.
MartinMond•about 3 hours ago
I listened to a great podcast on this just a month ago - too bad that I thought all of this would obviously be priced in already… https://virological.podigee.io/51-21-cancer-vaccines-how-the...
epistasis•about 2 hours ago
I think the "expected value" was priced in, but regardless of the result, this trial would move the stock price towards that direction.

Biotech is one of the very very very few areas of the stockmarket where specialist knowledge generates alpha.

Trolling through random biotechs, learning about their tech, and investing in the most promising applications of that tech in the most impactful areas is something that happens somewhat on publicly traded markets. With tech, most of that happens pre-IPO.

henry2023•about 3 hours ago
Even if you were to optimally price in all available information you still have uncertainty of what will actually happen. i.e. A 1 dollar coin flip has an expected value of 50c before it’s thrown and it will collapse either to zero or to one after the uncertainty is resolved.
mapipolo•about 2 hours ago
Hard to price in the political factors now involved in Moderna's success or lack of success.
bluGill•about 3 hours ago
I don't believe the efficient market hypothesis. However even if you do, new information has arrived and that will affect the price.
epistasis•about 3 hours ago
Ever since I first heard of them a decade ago, it seemed that mRNA therapeutic vaccines were going to be the next wave of massive improvements in care. It's taken a bit longer than I had expected, and it's not that mRNA is the only way to make these sorts of vaccines, it's just so much better than the alternatives.

I'm very very excited to see what comes next.

ricardobayes•about 2 hours ago
According to Gemini, Moderna uses machine learning to speed up sequence selection and mRNA optimization. After all, this is not a mass-produced vaccine, but a personalized one.
Noaidi•about 2 hours ago
I for one would like to see the data rather than a press release. Is this even serious? A press release with no link to outside twitter?

I feel like everything companies, and presidents, say now is directly geared to triggering AI trades.

The only thing they are looking at with this drug is people living one more month over existing drugs.

THIS IS NOTHING.

"The median PFS (progression-free survival) for KEYTRUDA was 5.5 months (2-week group) and 4.1 months (3-week group) compared to 2.8 months for ipilimumab (HR 0.58, P<0.00001 for the KEYTRUDA groups vs. ipilimumab,"

https://www.merck.com/news/keytruda-pembrolizumab-mercks-ant...

The median PFS (progression-free survival) for KEYTRUDA was 5.5 months (2-week group) and 4.1 months (3-week group) compared to 2.8 months for ipilimumab (HR 0.58, P<0.00001 for the KEYTRUDA groups vs. ipilimumab, 95% CI, 0.46-0.72 for 2-week group and 0.47-0.72 for 3-week group, respectively). The estimated 6-month PFS rates for the KEYTRUDA and ipilimumab arms were 47.3 percent, 46.4 percent and 26.5 percent, respectively. One-year OS for KEYTRUDA was 74.1 percent (2-week group) and 68.4 percent (3-week group) compared to 58.2 percent for ipilimumab (HR 0.63 [95% CI, 0.47-0.83, P=0.00052] for the 2-week group and HR 0.69 [95% CI, 0.52-0.90, P=0.00358] for the 3-week group). At the time of analysis, median overall survival was not reached in any treatment group.

calebkaiser•about 2 hours ago
1. That's not what progression-free survival means.

2. I don't think AI was mentioned once in this press release.

3. This drug was approved for trial in 2014, so if it had something to do with deep learning, that would actually be a massive announcement.

4. The paragraph immediately following the one you clipped talks about Overall Response Rate (ORR) and throughout the release they discuss Overall Survival (OS).

5. This is not "NOTHING" in statistical terms, but even more so to people with melanoma.

HedonicEscal8r•about 1 hour ago
Interjecting with a fact. Moderna described the neoantigen immunogenicity prediction algorithm they used to design the vaccines as “a deterministic machine learning (ML) algorithm,” so it may be a small neural network or more traditional algorithm, probably not deep learning.
hyperhello•about 2 hours ago
No it isn’t. They did a test with great specificity and got undeniable P values. Now they can refine the action and start saving people. This is a huge, huge win.
lakhim•about 1 hour ago
you're also looking at a different, older study. Keytruda is a little strange in that it has a very long tail in survivorship, works best in certain cases, and median PFS isn't a really great metric.
reenorap•about 3 hours ago
I have 1000 shares of mRNA woohoo! For all the hate I have for the COVID vaccine, I still believe in the underlying technology and I put my money where my mouth was and bought around $20. I think this is just the first of many cancer treatments mRNA will bring and I’m very excited for the future of the technology.
Someone1234•about 3 hours ago
> For all the hate I have for the COVID vaccine

Can you clarify that? It saved 100K+ lives even by incredibly conservative estimates, and allowed life to returned to normal at least a year earlier than otherwise.

declan_roberts•about 3 hours ago
I can't speak for other people but I was upset to enter a medical era where bureaucrats were forcing medical decisions on me. I was forced to get it or lose my job despite 1) working remotely, 2) having already had Covid and 3) being healthy and not at risk of Covid death but being the largest risk for myocarditis.
Arkhaine_kupo•about 2 hours ago
> I was upset to enter a medical era

Did we enter a new era or where you not paying attention or affecting you before?

Reminds me of the old adage of:

Q: "Why is no one speaking about this?"

R: "Is no one talking about this, or are you just 20 and its the first time you are hearing about it?"

hdhdhsjsbdh•about 2 hours ago
Americans are so silly. Resentful of being told to do anything for their own good or the good of others because of “individual liberty”, yet so willing to lick the boot of the police state and corrupt crony capitalists. Good news for you is that Elon went in and set the bureaucrats straight, so enjoy your diarrhea and glass in your food.
searine•about 2 hours ago
Because, it is always all about you...
martythemaniak•about 2 hours ago
Is that when you entered that era? Or did you enter it when you were a newborn in the hospital, or a kid entering school?
bhaak•about 3 hours ago
What are the reasons for the hate of the COVID vaccine?
tasty_freeze•about 2 hours ago
There is a legitimate discussion of what can be mandated you do to your body.

However, that discussion was largely side-tracked by the massive amount of disinformation (eg, "Plandemic") that circulated online. There are people who to this day swear that COVID-19 was just like the flu and simultaneously claim that the vaccine spike proteins have killed around 20M people. Not just crackpots, but people with reach, like Brett Weinstein on Joe Rogan's podcast.

Arkhaine_kupo•about 2 hours ago
> There is a legitimate discussion of what can be mandated you do to your body.

But we have already protocols and frameworks on public health.

Also plenty of other medical choices are taken with way less input of experts (see abortion discussions for example)

Not sure, the midst of a global crisis, with almost universal scientific approval is the time to have a long discussion on bodily autonomy on countries like america where 50% of people cant read at a 6th grade level.

SideburnsOfDoom•about 2 hours ago
> There is a legitimate discussion of what can be mandated you do to your body.

There is a legitimate discussion (dating back at least to Typhoid Mary (1) ) on excluding people from public spaces when they refuse to take basic public health measures. Taking a vaccine for a spreading deadly pandemic is one of those measures.

Doing something so violently anti-social is not simply a "bodily autonomy" issue, and framing it only as such is deeply misguided in a way that seems particular to some USA norms.

1) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Mallon

> In 1907, she was forcibly quarantined at the Riverside Hospital

declan_roberts•about 3 hours ago
Probably one of the most polarizing issues of the last 5 years.
epistasis•about 2 hours ago
"Polarizing" is a word that kind of applies, especially if one is trying to be polite, but really it's one of the most politically disinformed issues in a long long time.

A bunch of grifters pushed fear, uncertainty, and doubt for personal gain, at the expense of the health of the nation. I try not to blame people who got tricked, but at some point we need to treat people like adults who are responsible for their own actions, and hold them accountable for the harm they perpetuate by believing BS and acting on it.

A democracy cannot function when its members are low-functioning, and when bad information dominates. Those who spread disinformation, relish the conspiracy and disinformation because it makes them feel special emotionally, and wallow in the mess of it, are hurting us all.

Insanity•about 3 hours ago
I don't recall it being as polarizing outside of the US, where there was a larger group of anti-vaxxers to begin with. But that might be my "outside US" bubble.
alexlesuper•about 3 hours ago
Probably disinformation.
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attila-lendvai•about 1 hour ago
/me shakes head in disbelief and closes the tab
hungryhobbit•about 1 hour ago
There are a zillion news sources for this: OP what would possess you to pick the (largely dead) right wing Musk-owned Twitter ("X" )?
grokcodec•about 2 hours ago
In other news, your barber thinks you need a haircut. Until there is a proven net overall health benefit to this therapy, I wouldn't waste much ink on it. Also, can someone please tell me how one controls the dose for an mRNA therapy ?
rob74•about 1 hour ago
If you actually had melanoma (a very aggressive type of skin cancer) you would be glad for one more chance of maybe still being alive a few years from now.
grokcodec•about 1 hour ago
not if you dropped dead from a heart attack after your therapy. Are you familiar with vioxx ? https://www.npr.org/2007/11/10/5470430/timeline-the-rise-and...
Taikhoom10•about 1 hour ago
Yeah while a positive step, I do not understand a 90% stock increase.
andxor•about 1 hour ago
Oh yeah? Show me your discounted cash flow analysis.