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Discussion (120 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews
Grateful we're moving forward on so many fronts in the world.
We came up with the idea of having a place where nerds could come together to hang out and learn from each other and we decided to call the concept "Hacker Dojo". I had a sign laser engraved in 2002 at a state fair to memorialize the idea but we didn't actually get to open a Hacker Dojo until 2009.
There's a conference room in it called Kaminsky.
Dan was not a very good roommate but man, his brain worked in weird and wonderful ways, and it was inspiring how he could just rabbit-hole on stuff other people didn't find interesting until he MADE it interesting and found things nobody else had.
I miss him too. What a gift he was to the world.
What areas do you have in mind outside of diabetes management?
Maintaining consistent glucose levels improves mental health, weight management, sleep quality, muscle recovery, systemic inflammation, cardiovascular health, and may even slow aging. There isn't much clinical data at the moment on how to use blood glucose measurements to control glucose levels outside of people with diabetes (there are lots of things that impact it besides just sugar intake), but there are definitely major theoretical benefits if it can be worked out.
Also, just reducing the incidence of diabetes would be no small accomplishment. About 3.5% of global disability adjusted life-years (DALYs) are due to diabetes. As of 2021 it was the 7th largest contributor of global DALYs.
The presence or absence of ketones in your blood can tell you whether or not (say) that coffee you just drank took you out of the fasted state (that you were in for not eating overnight).
Whether or not you are in a fasted state matters not just for weight loss, but also for things like longevity (when you are in a fasted state your body cleans up dead cells that contribute to things like cancer, whereas in a non-fasted state it leaves them lying around).
The continuous monitor should help until you get the hang of the diet, it's a bit hard to maintain, but if it works, worth it.
Early diagnosis would save a lot of pain and suffering... and money.
I worked with an older T1 and apparently a bit less than half of kids diagnosed with T1 are diagnosed unconscious during a DKA event in the ER. "Treatment" cost, or at least requested revenue LOL, is at least $30K for an ER visit like that, and it also costs at least some months (years?) off their expected lifespan.
Figure about 0.5% of the population in the USA is T1, you read stuff like "about two million T1 diabetics" in the USA. So early T1 diagnosis would save the country overall about $30B just in DKA treatment alone at time of initial diagnosis.
If you could screen an entire population for less than $30B total lifetime cost, it would be financially rational to prescreen for T1 rather than waiting for ambulances to present incredibly sick kids. And potentially profitable.
Prescreening the entire population for metabolic disorders is quite plausible as a "tech startup idea" as the alternative is waiting for them to arrive in an ambulance while extremely sick/nearly dead. Lets say it could be done for $10B, leaving $10B for startup profit (charge insurance companies $20B which is not bad....) and $10B in lowered health care costs for the country in general, not to mention less suffering in the population. A win-win scenario.
IF blood sugar related disorders could be pre-screened for less than $10B total cost. A solid "maybe"? Plausibly a startup doing blood sugar prescreening would be a "multibillion dollar company" although not a trillion dollar unicorn. Still a good idea.
It would be interesting to see this technology branch out into monitoring hormones, minerals, vitamins, etc. For all of human history, the closest we've had to realtime monitoring is just our mood. It would be life changing for anyone to have this feedback.
The problems for these non-invasive options so far is they either too easily fail to work, are bulky/expensive, give very ballpark accuracies, or some combination thereof.
Sounds bloody useful to me.
I think it's huge for diabetics. It's a mental toll for them. They hate having to constantly prick themselves to take readings. It's awkward, inconvenient and you have to do it multiple times to be sure you got a good reading. And worse of all, it's possible to forget to take a reading when you need to.
This already happens with CGMs. The bulk of the sales is with people who want them for lifestyle monitoring even though they're only medically cleared for diabetes use.
https://www.stelo.com
https://www.hellolingo.com
She figured it out because she recognized the symptoms of ketoacidosis. That sent her to the hospital, which has thankfully allowed her to outlive her pancreas.
Normally it should never happen. It happens at ketones like ~10+ mmol, and it's ~impossible to go more than ~6 for a healthy human even eating 100% fat and fasting for a week+ and doing marathons or whatever all at the same time.
The keto diet, can actually help in T1D, by keeping blood sugar more stable overall, but you still need insulin, just less.
Also there wasn't really a relationship of the keto diet to the rest of my post, just using it to contextualize a technical term with one that might be more familiar.
In T1D with no insulin, muscle break down from gluconesis will increase blood sugar in the blood even more. The absence of insulin also makes ketone production unrestricted, so you end up in ketoacidosis.
Muscle is used when you don't have fat, or when you eat completely nothing (burn both fat & muscle).
Like I've gained ~10KG of muscle while on keto diet. Blood sugar at 70-100 depending on scenario. Usually on the lower end.
This is not verified info, but I would assume these are either A) the exact same device, just with different marketing B) "binned" production runs that did not meet the accuracy threshold for clinical/prescribed use, but are otherwise "good enough" for someone looking to healthmaxx.
The "real" device gives you what it measures as your real highs and lows while the OTC devices won't report high highs or low lows.
I have a Stelo (I was curious and diabetes runs in my family) while my wife has the Dexcom.
It also probably gives the companies really valuable data.
https://navid200.github.io/xDrip/docs/Dexcom/G7.html
https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-clea...
All this device adds is a simultaneous ketone check, which is really only relevant to diabetics and not as much of a benefit because ketone levels are often checked with a urine test.
Was analogs in the 2010s, Obama had to pass the analog act low… now it’s back with peptides and glp 1 which aren’t scheduled but..
Yeah I guess make enough money and then lobby for the benefit of your audience base or for future proscuation
(don't have a problem with that, but it's predictable)
too bad it's not "wearable" like a watch but that might be coming eventually too since Garmin has a patent on it
* https://the5krunner.com/2026/02/06/garmin-non-invasive-blood...
(btw Fenix 9 launched today but it's same hardware as Fenix 8 and no glucose feature)
Before buying one, just know that fit cyclists will appear glucose intolerant on a CGM. See Fig. 1 at https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10933193/
Talking to ultramarathoners and cyclists, I think lactate is a biomarker that is tracked (POC blood samples) and would be more immediately useful for training/performance. AID might be construed as a form of doping, IMO.
Glucose and ketone monitoring seems a natural, more precise extension of that strategy. Isn't the point of carb-cramming to get more glucose into your blood stream, where your muscles can convert that into forward motion?
How? Like, what is the mechanism where this is useful?
More on metabolic flexibility: https://www.levels.com/blog/what-is-metabolic-flexibility-an...
Diabetics would snap up a smart watch which does accurate glucose monitoring in a heartbeat.
Ketones are rare. They can kill you, but before that happens, your blood sugar usually rises enough for you to realise you may have ketones and start using test strips to measure them. Instead of this marketing gimmick, Abbott should have focused on improving the quality of their glucose sensors which is far more important.
As an example: I was on a study that gave T1D patients Dapagliflozin (Farxiga). During the study, while on a long hike, I was hovering at low sugar and consequently insulin supply was mostly cut off for an extended period. As I started to to feel unwell, I measured ketones. I was briefed as preparation for the study to measure ketones when something seems wrong. Otherwise I wouldn't have thought of measuring ketones. Might not even have carried the kit.
On that occasion, the ketones were way above 1 mmol/l: a very high value. Protocol would have required me to call the study doctor due to the high level. Since it was a Sunday, I spared her, shot some insulin, ate a sandwich, and continued my hike. I could do that because I was not alone on that hike. I knew that if my situation deteriorated, somebody would be around to call rescue.
At the study debriefing I mentioned the incident and they said that adding to the effect of the Dapa, I was probably dehydrated, which led to the rare situation of both low sugar and high ketones.
All in all I think that if the sensor makers exhaust possible improvements for the glucose, it can make sense to add the ketone measurement as a safeguard. Having high sugar can have many reasons, and it often takes me a while to get to measuring ketones. Getting the signal of rising ketones, I would react faster a few times a year in situations where my insulin supply is broken.
Maybe this is more for Type 2 or other diabetes, or for people prone to DKA. Or it is for people with a working pancreas who think looking at their blood sugars (and now keytones) tells them something like soothsayers reading tea leaves
[0] https://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/about/diabetic-ketoacidosis.htm...
For example, about 20% of that number is because someone is finding out for the first time they have T1D [1].
Insulin costs and monitoring costs are also going to be a pretty big contributing factor. CGMs and finger sticks aren't cheap.
IDK how often it happens that ketoacidosis happens when glucose appears to be fine, I assume it's pretty rare.
[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016882272...
For anyone who doesn't get it: glucose is checked every five minutes because it changes very often, jumping or falling dangerously. It's a nightmare. Checking glucose is 1000 times more important than ketones which are almost never a problem. If you get accurate glucose readings you are highly unlikely to ever experience ketoacidosis in the first place. Before ketones become a problem, glucose has to stay high for hours. Abbott is pulling this marketing trick instead of improving the quality of their sensors. Libre 2 is absolute crap. Libre 3 is somewhat okay and sometimes even mediocre - which is still a pretty bad situation. Bad glucose sensor is a nightmare and it can kill a person or a child much likely than ketoacidosis. It will actually lead to ketoacidosis by showing incorrect glucose readings. Now I wonder whether they added a ketone sensor as a failsafe for their low quality glucose sensors.
No one asked them to add a ketone sensor as an add-on to their glucose sensor, except maybe their marketing department. People want higher quality glucose sensors that fail less often and are more accurate. Glucose sensors, not ketones!