Florida revokes permits for license plate readers on state highways

iilamont 3 days ago 26 commentsRead Article on wusf.org

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nashashmi•5 minutes ago

[delayed]

asploder•7 minutes ago

Has there been any reporting into whether Florida’s Turnpike Enterprise has adequate data access controls around SunPass? They have ALPRs to operate the toll-by-plate system on bridges and toll roads across the state.

In my view, that’s one of the better reasons to have ALPRs at all, but you do need strict controls to prevent misuse.

justanother•25 minutes ago

This refers only to Flock cameras. In Pinellas and Hillsborough counties (probably others or even most, but I cannot personally verify), there are non-Flock ALPR cameras on every major intersection stoplight gantry, feeding license plate and vehicular-fingerprint data to regional LE "Fusion Centers," where Palantir's Gotham product absolutely is in use. This is of course in addition to FDOT's PTZ cameras also. Forgive a cynic for telling you that banning Flock on state highways is purely performative in such light.

chuckadams•19 minutes ago

The memo refers to all ALPR systems, and does not mention Flock at all.

It's one page: https://fdotwww.blob.core.windows.net/sitefinity/docs/defaul...

asploder•6 minutes ago

I’m sure they’ll clarify this, but wouldn’t that include SunPass toll-by-plate facilities?

justanother•10 minutes ago

In that case, marvelous. Here's hoping it's actually executed.

chuckadams•4 minutes ago

This has the backing of the governor of the state, who I trust not one bit. But the removal is happening within 30 days, which gives him basically no wiggle room to undo it in a backroom deal.

nashashmi•3 minutes ago

[delayed]

spogbiper•7 minutes ago

"On Monday, Aug. 31, the Florida Department of Transportation (FDOT) issued a memorandum revoking existing permits for automated license plate recognition (ALPR) systems, commonly referred to by the brand name "Flock cameras," that are installed within the right of way of roads on the State Highway System."

Very first paragraph. "Flock" is basically being used like "Kleenex" here

thataccount•about 1 hour ago

Florida is leading the nation on wise legislation where surveillance is involved in this example. It isn't doing too bad on income tax and other pain points either.

CSMastermind•about 1 hour ago

Moving here after living in NYC for a decade was a breath of fresh air. I had forgotten that competent governments exist.

cucumber3732842•18 minutes ago

The local code enforcement situation is not great compared to a lot of other states due to how funding works (causes incentive to be predatory) but you probably won't notice coming from NYC.

thataccount•33 minutes ago

>Moving here after living in NYC for a decade was a breath of fresh air. I had forgotten that competent governments exist.

Kinda sad since even though NYC was always iffy, it was never flat out as useless as it is now.

jmclnx•36 minutes ago

I cannot help to think 1 or more politician or their children was caught breaking a serious law that they would have avoided if the camera was not there. So the fix is to ban the cameras.

cucumber3732842•15 minutes ago

Doubtful. Look at the Kennedys. The political class was never in serious danger. Worst case they have to do a favor for the department that has dirt on them.

mc32•about 1 hour ago

This is definitely a good step, however, ALPRs are not going away unfortunately. They have and are and will keep getting deployed by private businesses. They are too valuable for them at this time. The likes of Wal-Mart, etc., will potentially sell information to brokers and so on and some aggregator will resell the data to whomever wants to use the data.

paimapi•35 minutes ago

I once interviewed for a trucking logistics SAAS vendor who installed cameras every X number of miles to track shipments of freight. their moat was that physical surveillance network that they had already installed, cameras which scanned (like Flock) not just license plates but decals, looked for signals for driver awareness, collected EMF emissions to see if certain safety and satellite features were on, etc

now they said they didn't sell their data to LEOs but their founders also literally used to work for the CIA (it was bragged about in the initial interviews)

I wouldn't be surprised if companies of that kind are a dime-a-dozen

techdmn•about 1 hour ago

Any business that puts an ALPR in their parking lot is a business I do not visit.

alexpotato•about 1 hour ago

How would you know if it's there?

I ask rhetorically but I also imagine that at some point there will be an app that tells you and then people will vote with their dollars to the places that don't have them.

yesfitz•about 1 hour ago

DeFlock already tracks ALPRs in private businesses' parking lots. https://maps.deflock.org/

mc32•40 minutes ago

It won’t matter. Slow encroachment. Everyone has learned from Google that slow encroachment gets what you want.

Price sensitive folks going to dollar general, wal-mart, etc., are not going to go shop at whole foods (assuming they even differentiate), and for people who go to ikea or Lowe’s for home goods, it’s not like they’re going to drive 30 miles out of their way to avoid ALPRs.

We can get pols to not deploy them with public monies, but I think that’s all we can do.

izacus•19 minutes ago

Where are you gonna go when everyone has them?

josefritzishere•about 1 hour ago

This is the wrong thing to do, but we need more. Mass surveillance is a crime against humanity.

stetrain•about 1 hour ago

Fundamentally we need controls on how both the state and private industry can store, use, and share such data.

Playing whack-a-mole with each specific type of surveillance and company involved isn't really fixing the issue.

Lord_Zero•about 1 hour ago

What is the wrong thing to do?

kspacewalk2•about 1 hour ago

Whatever it is, we need more.

shevy-java•34 minutes ago

It's almost like in the movie Minority Report. The state knows where you are at all times (well, not entirely true right now, but to a high extent true now, at the least for car drivers).