Why Arab armies don't win wars

mamonster•about 2 hours ago

It's all very simple. Islam is a unique religion in that its main prophet had military chops and there are specific surahs that suggest that fighting well gives you a reward and is a sign of being righteous.

So any competent general has de-facto political legitimacy and is a de-facto threat to whatever government is in place. Most of the leaders in the region know this and as a result armies are staffed with insiders (which the article notes).

Saudi airforce is basically a jobs programme for elite families.

dragontamer•about 1 hour ago

That's mostly a feature of monarchies. Even in European settings, monarchs claimed divine right to rule.

That's why ex: El Cid (a great knight/military commander in Spain) was a threat to King Alfonso. (Doubly so because El Cid is a local hero who could raise a combined Muslim+Catholic Army, while King Alfonso was Catholic only. El Cid actually comes from Al-Sayyid, the nickname the Muslim locals gave to El Cid )

This happened enough in the Catholic monarchies that I have to believe it's really just the shape of Monarchies. Like the King of the Franks King Charlemagne the Great is basically known for his military exploits, with Paladins (his royal guard) forever influencing future Europeans and creating the image of an ideal Holy Warrior.

Did I say military exploits? I mean spreading Catholicism to the pagan Saxons. By conquest. During the Dark and Middle Ages, they spread Catholicism the old fashioned way, with the sword.

I do believe that Kim Jong Um military Uncle was put to death as well, likely as court intrigue and a preventative measure to prevent a powerful well respected General from overstepping his king.

Kings are always worried about their generals. Or better yet, Kings are themselves a general to prove their divine authority.

throwaway059234•16 minutes ago

> This happened enough in the Catholic monarchies that I have to believe it's really just the shape of Monarchies.

There are still 12 monarchies in Europe, some of them Catholic, some Protestant. Your theory does not work there. The monarchies and Catholicism itself evolved (to a great degree, courtesy of the French Revolution), while Islam seems to have stalled.

dragontamer•6 minutes ago

The King of England isn't in charge of the UK though. The power largely rests in Andy Burnham.

The job of the monarchy today is largely traditional. They pass and bless today's (better) government systems.

> The monarchies and Catholicism itself evolved, while Islam seems to have stalled.

Do you know the story of Iranian Democracy from 1960s?

There are... complications... to democracies in the middle east.

cucumber3732842•about 1 hour ago

So then why did damn near every European royal family make a habit of giving every prince and bastard son, including ones not in line for the throne, armies to go play around with?

If you're a crappy king the last thing you want is someone with a "legitimate claim" to the throne with an army to back them up instigating your court to depose you.

dragontamer•44 minutes ago

Good question.

Followup question: do you know the story of how the Frankish Kingdom of Charlemagne the Great got split up into Lombards, France and HRE (basically modern Germany) ??

Kings juggled the conflicting tasks of choosing an inheritor, as well as preventing their sons from rising up and... let's just say "William the Bastard-ing" everyone.

Yes, on occasion a random bastard son will take over all of Normandy and Briton.

So I don't really know what your question is. That happened, constantly. Brothers killed each other, and sometimes their fathers, in a mad game of power for damn near a thousand years.

But clearly the kings of the time thought the risks were worth the reward. A hereditary title of king means that your followers know who is charge if you died in battle. The risk of your sons deposing you was accepted, because the risks of dying for other reasons (disease, famine, war...) was greater.

Someone•about 1 hour ago

Basically the same arguments, in a longer story: https://www.meforum.org/middle-east-quarterly/why-arabs-lose...

mainecoder•about 1 hour ago

it also has to do with military power if I high ranking officer disciplines an officer of lower rank but that lower rank officer is the cousin of so and so, then there is a problem for the high ranking officer, thus a lack of discipline pervades

xhkkffbf•about 1 hour ago

I've heard that in some recent battles, the units turned out to have many fewer soldiers than the payroll might suggest. Why? Commanders were registering fake names and pocketing the salaries.

Why Arab armies don't win wars

⚡ Community Insights

Discussion (9 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews