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Discussion (162 Comments)Read Original on HackerNews

gps372about 3 hours ago
Most comments may have ignored this so far, but this is an interesting AI based research.

At the end of the article is this excerpt

>> Results from this research were generated using an AI computer vision model developed by the research team on Bristol’s Isambard-AI, the UK’s most powerful AI supercomputer. Isambard-AI powered the analysis of 172.6 hours of live match footage from all 104 games played between 11 June and 19 July 2026.

So, basically now merchandizers, auditors, compliance monitors, etc. have a tool using which they can quantify whether broadcaster complied with contractual requirements of showing their ads/merch/logos as per contract. And if they missed, then they can quantify the delta - to sue the broadcaster for the balance as well.

Also, it can enable many countries, where certain content is not allowed, then this tool can simply give them data points without having to employ someone, or have someone review the output of the AI tooling.

ameliusabout 2 hours ago
There's a lot of data extraction being done for every game. It already uses tons of AI, and has been using it for years. Doing it by hand would have been more surprising.
thevinterabout 3 hours ago
I'm sure this was already easily doable for years by using plain and boring computer vision
GuB-42about 2 hours ago
It was easily doable for even more years using plain and boring MK1 eyeballs and a stopwatch.

If you are spending millions on ads, you can pay a couple of guys to watch TV and take notes.

gps372about 2 hours ago
Plain and boring computer vision would have still required a team who would identify frames to sample before processing, and then annotate, generalize and classify the data.

Not an expert on this but I don't think same kind of manual effort is required anymore.

OccamsMirrorabout 2 hours ago
You probably don't even need vision. The audio on adverts is noticeably different.
vascoabout 2 hours ago
There's no audio on the adverts in question.

> The analysis counted advertising built into the match footage (e.g. on the hoardings), rather than commercials shown during advertising breaks

brookstabout 2 hours ago
This is also being done in retail, where manufacturers and/or distributors pay for preferred placement (end caps, eye level, etc), but how do you check that e.g. Safeway is really doing that across a couple of thousand stores?

You hire minimum wage people to walk around stores with cameras. This was actually done with notepads occasionally, but so much less expensive tondo with AI.

wateralienabout 3 hours ago
It's not only the World Cup, it's everything, everywhere, all the time. We are drowning in marketing messages. It's gross.
gumbyabout 3 hours ago
AR glasses with ad blocking would be a must-buy for me…though how would I learn about it?

Seems like a good feature for AirPods too, though the new CEO Ternus seems committed to the opposite.

thinkingtoiletabout 2 hours ago
At least soccer has continuous play. Watching American football is unbearable.
serial_devabout 3 hours ago
I'm actually surprised it's only that many ads? How can people even take a screenshot of the screen without a bunch of ads on it? You can't even take a look at a player, their jersey has basically ads on it, the ball, the shoes, the names of stadiums... Or do they not count the adidas/nike/reebok logos?
plucabout 3 hours ago
The jersey thing is completely insane to me. I'm from North America where jerseys are largely NBA, NHL and MLB. No ads (although, NHL has started). But the euro jersey has the biggest ad dead fucking center.

I understand the concept that the kit colours is what identifies the team, but still, I can't justify wearing a giant advertisement. If you gave it to me, I'd refuse it. Fuck you, pay me.

tialaramexabout 3 hours ago
But they are being paid, they're paid a tremendous amount of money, and advertisements are where the money comes from.
iamacyborgabout 2 hours ago
He’s referring to jerseys sold to fans, not those worn by the athletes.
plucabout 3 hours ago
I understand they're being paid to wear their sponsors logo. I am not.
etcetcetcetcetaabout 2 hours ago
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c77kvx575npo

It's common even at a local grassroots level where local businesses will feature on the kits.

dwedgeabout 3 hours ago
Not sure if there's push back or something behind this but a lot of premiership teams this season in the UK have a second kit where the sponsor is either missing or the same colour as the shirt so barely visible. Examples: https://www.safcstore.com/en/c-18416 https://www.brightonandhovealbion.com/media-article/125th-an...
plucabout 3 hours ago
The same goes for international matches, no ads on jerseys.
aczerepinskiabout 3 hours ago
NBA and MLB both have ads on the jersey (Nike and an additional per-team sponsor)
o10449366about 2 hours ago
What? Lakers are literally sponsored by Wish.
plucabout 2 hours ago
Yeah I don't watch basketball or baseball or football so I don't know. Those are US leagues for US sports for US people, with one team to pretend it isn't.
tremonabout 3 hours ago
> The analysis counted advertising built into the match footage (e.g. on the hoardings [sic?]), rather than commercials shown during advertising breaks.
invalidusernam3about 3 hours ago
Hoardings is UK English (so... English) for the advertising boards around a football pitch
onaclov2000about 1 hour ago
I've been wondering about building counter ad technology. I think we recall their being some patents I saw sometime in the last handful of years that talked about swapping items out in a live show during reruns. But like why couldn't we just do that on our side and removing the items I assume we just pipe the HDMI in run some algorithms and then pipe it out. And I know I'm saying it as if it's trivial but if someone can write an algorithm to find existing things and swap them out it's the exact same thing except you just swap them out with a patch of the original scene for the original scene without whatever product placement I suppose.
gonzogato14 minutes ago
I haven’t gotten to the “replace” bit yet, but I’m automatically muting live ads and auto skipping through recorded ones: https://github.com/michigandrew/the-clicker. Love your idea
GJim20 minutes ago
> I've been wondering about building counter ad technology.

Ah... Old school culture jamming :-)

See also, billboard hacking and Adbusters.

onaclov2000about 1 hour ago
Also just the title of this post reminds me of ready player one (I just watched again recently), we can fill 80% of their field of view with ads before inducing seizures (I forget exact quote but it's close enough)
Tychoabout 2 hours ago
It was funny a few years ago when the English Premier League was all moralistic, having players “take the knee” before matches in solidarity with social justice, meanwhile all the stadiums and team shirts and television broadcasts were abound with online gambling ads and sponsorships.
iso1631about 2 hours ago
They didn't "have" players "take the knee", they just didn't stop them. It's called freedom.
Tychoabout 2 hours ago
Freedom as long as it’s a cause officially sanctioned by the league.
boesboesabout 3 hours ago
Marketing, the great value siphon. Marketing adds NOTHING of value of the world.
snemvaltsabout 2 hours ago
The sport wouldn't be as popular or have as much funding. The reason football is where it is because of marketing.

This can be extended to all other sports. A sport needs to be easy to follow and easy to advertise with to get funding. Being able to practice it cheaply on a grass-roots level helps.

adrianNabout 3 hours ago
Product discoverability has some value, but marketing is largely a zero sum game.
mordaeabout 2 hours ago
Discoverability is trivially solvable by dedicating journalists to products. There are already events the companies use to present their products, frequented by journalists who then proceed to write periodicals with new product categories, benchmarks and comparisons.

Those do get gamed and might cheat since they'd get kickbacks, but that should result in a reputation loss as other journalists point it out. There are also various cooperative models that work here well as members can just vote kickback-taking staff out.

People used to actually subscribe to magazines (and some still do) in areas they are interested in. And they still go and visit the shops to see if anything interesting pops up and there is word of mouth.

So I believe discoverability is not really a problem. The fact is that polished advertisements take up bandwidth that would be more productively utilized by a benchmark comparison chart with a commentary on differentiators. People would get more performant and/or better fitting products and services and the overall productivity and happiness would increase.

plucabout 2 hours ago
Marketing is the art of fucking with discoverability so that your shit gets discovered instead of what is relevant.
sailfast41 minutes ago
This isn’t awesome generally but I don’t understand how this study is novel in the slightest?

Ban goods or expect advertising for them, full stop.

Seems like a perfect useless academic exercise to watch the World Cup and say you’re working.

Bonus points for judgment on the health of the goods just for giggles.

MWParkerson35 minutes ago
At least it's not like the NFL, christ the constant interruptions to the broadcast are way worse than a spot on a jersey or on a barrier
baggachipz34 minutes ago
Don't worry, "hydration breaks" will catch up to NFL levels in no time.
chistevabout 3 hours ago
And it seems the "hydration break" has been adopted by La Liga.
lbreakjaiabout 3 hours ago
A break to drink water is not a new thing in La Liag. It's however only implemented when the temperature reaches a certain threshold (I think 30 degrees but I may be wrong), which I think makes sense and is acceptable.

The World Cup turned it into a farce by making it mandatory even during a rainy 19 degrees weather, or inside climate controlled stadiums.

It's still close to 40 degrees in Sevilla these days.

originalvichyabout 3 hours ago
It was only mandatory so that teams wouldn’t feel like they were disadvantaged if a rival got breaks during games that crossed a set temperature limit and they did not. League game fixtures are so random that this would not be an advantage, but for a short cup tournament like this it could be a big tactical/performance advantage, especially in the knockout phase.
lbreakjaiabout 2 hours ago
Yes that was the reason put forward, which is absolutely ridiculous if you think about it.

Some teams within the same group had to travel far more than others. Some played at noon in a California stadium shaped like a oven while others played later in cooler climates or in climate controlled stadiums. Some games had to be interrupted because of thunderstorms.

Yet the only measure they took for "fairness" happened to be the one that incidentally allowed them to make more money. Let's be honest for a second, a three minutes break amounts to a somewhat lengthy VAR or offside check, a slow corner kick, or an injured player getting escorted off the field.

If anything, it makes it _more_ unfair to make it mandatory everywhere. It's not an advantage, it's supposed to make up for a particularly hot/humid weather. Now your next opponent will have had the benefit of an extra 6 minutes break, without the disadvantage of having exerted themselves in a very hot weather.

Any talk of fairness when out of the window when FIFA decided to put their thumb on the scale and rescind Balogun's red card anyway.

tremonabout 2 hours ago
That was merely the excuse given. Teams are already hugely disadvantaged by having to play in 30+°C when a rival gets to play in 20°C instead. Giving the team playing in better conditions a commercial break as well only adds to that unfairness.
H4cks0r1337about 3 hours ago
Yes, the important hydration break. Because players didn't have ample time to drink something up until now before free kicks, corner kicks etc and during VAR checks every ~ 10 minutes. Glad I stopped watching more than 10 years ago.
bdavbdavabout 3 hours ago
Yep. US World Cup ruined it for the rest of us :(
rbarrosoPTabout 3 hours ago
Each year, I watch less and less football. In Portugal you have to subscribe 2 or 3 streaming platforms if want to follow the Portuguese League, the Champions League, and eventually other country leagues (like Premier League and La Liga).

Now, we see huge panels (double the height) for ads in stadiums which become very intrusive when watching on TV (20–30% of the screen ends up being used for ads). Added the hydratation->ADs breaks, and increased World Cup tickets insanely.

Football used to be for everyone, now they're are killing it for almost everyone.

zimpenfishabout 3 hours ago
> In Portugal you have to subscribe 2 or 3 streaming platforms

Same in the UK (Sky for EPL+EFL Cup, HBO for EPL+UCL, Amazon Prime for Christmas EPL + occasional cup games) + a TV licence (for the occasional cup game / tournaments.)

If you don't pay for anything, you can watch about 10? cup games a season on ITV. Or go to a pub, obviously (but then you'll be forced to buy drinks.)

You can usually listen to a bunch of games per week via BBC Radio (I think it requires a TV licence if you use streaming but you can still get 5Live on AM radio AFAIK) and TalkSport (also on AM radio.)

VulgarExigencyabout 2 hours ago
My solution for this is to just subscribe to an entirely legitimate IPTV service which costs about as much for a year as one month of Sport TV costs.
stockresearcherabout 3 hours ago
Are you going to be leading the campaign to get your national FA to return all of the money it received from the highest-revenue-sharing-ever US World Cup?
kryptisktabout 2 hours ago
Sweden cleared $2.5M in profit from their participation, about the same as the previous edition, all the increase was eaten up by the US taxing the teams and higher costs. That's not nearly enough money to sell out for.
windwardabout 3 hours ago
Football fans have shown they're quite eager to tell Infantino where to stick his revenue sharing.
watwutabout 3 hours ago
It earned the most money, but was it the most sharing? The hosting cities were taken advantage of and clubs are in fact rebelling against fifa now.
dzongaabout 3 hours ago
and the Italian league.

honestly I think it's not a bad move - as it allows for tactical flexibility.

serial_devabout 3 hours ago
It's just an ad break, and now that it has been normalized, probably everyone will do it. They should just say directly we have quarters from now on because we want to show you more ads, the most annoying part is this gaslighting, pretending it is for hydration.
Muhammad523about 3 hours ago
I think people simply ignore the banners and logos all around so its not that much of a problem
bdavbdavabout 3 hours ago
Not at all true. There’s a whole industry around measuring this (e.g. https://www.edo.com). A massive amount of money is spent on advertising for large companies. McD spend ballpark $3bn across the parent and franchisees, they want to make sure they get value.
totetsuabout 3 hours ago
You can ignore something actively but you are a still picking up on the message of it’s ubiquitousness. I think we have all had the experience of considering buying a {redacted} or something sometime after seeing and ignoring an add for one.
bayindirhabout 3 hours ago
The worst part is, the value they get (monies) is not the same value you get (worse health all over).
xnorswapabout 3 hours ago
They clearly don't, otherwise it wouldn't generate so much advertising revenue.
DaiPlusPlusabout 3 hours ago
On the contrary: it's because people ignore them so much that motivates those very same brands to constantly push harder, and more obnoxiously, each time major sporting events are on.

Like, what-on-earth was Visa thinking when their sponsorship of the Olympics had all the food-vendors and merch sellers boasting how they were "Proud" to decline payments from customers unless they're using Visa-networked cards[1] - which demonstrates they just can't exercise restraint.

[1]: https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Journal/Issues/2012/07... - Visa's official slogan really was “We are proud to accept only Visa.”

mrweaselabout 3 hours ago
The problem is that you have no idea if those ads are working, not really.

Do I go to McDonalds because I saw an ad, or because it 3 minutes away and the kid wants nuggets? Do I shop at my local supermarket because they buy every third ad on YouTube, or because it's the closest? There are a ton of details that influence our daily choices, and I'm not suggesting that ads aren't one of them, but I'm starting to doubt that it's the defining one. When I look at what I buy it's: availability, cost, and specification. There's not a hold lot advertising can do about any of those three.

If we could truly measure which ads works and which doesn't the entire ad based economy would crash over night.

devsdaabout 3 hours ago
Ads don't have to be the primary deciding factor but it does make the rest of the process in the sales pipeline easy.

Whether we realize or not subconsciously our minds will associate the product and ad. When that association is reinforced by the salesman, a strategic placement on the shelf, or discount offers it is easier to convert it to sale.

onion2kabout 3 hours ago
That assumes advertisers are correctly measuring the impact of their ads. They could just be wrong.
xeyowntabout 3 hours ago
If you invest millions, you make sure that being wrong is a very tiny probability.
xnorswapabout 3 hours ago
Yes, it could be a mass-delusion drive ad-spend, but I think you're vastly underestimating how much these logos actually go in to "brand recognition".

Next time you walk into your local electronics retailer and look at TVs, you might see a Samsung, LG, HiSense.

Chances are, if not for massive amounts spent on advertising sports, you'd overlook some of these brands in favour of the ones you recognise.

It won't be a conscious, "I saw this during the north London derby so I'll buy it", but subconscious name recognition will have a huge impact on willingness to buy.

inexcfabout 2 hours ago
And homeopathy works because people pay for it.
EDEdDNEdDYFaNabout 3 hours ago
I am sure you are aware that on a subconscious level the ads have an impact on you, even if you think you are actively “ignoring” them
inexcfabout 2 hours ago
I specifically avoid products i see ads for, cause the product can't be that great if it needs obnoxious advertisements, so the effect is more than subconscious. Now, i don't see many ads cause i block all of them where i can and roadside advertisements are not allowed here in Germany, but even if i was, i am of the opinion that the effect of this subliminal manipulation is severely overstated by the people selling ad space. I think the idea that i would buy something just because a company writes their name everywhere is ridiculous and as far as i know studies show that the effect on buying decisions is basically not measurable. I think the entire value in advertisements is just more people in general knowing of a brand.
rjknightabout 3 hours ago
The gambling ads have a conscious effect for me: I think “what a terrible world this portrays, I’m glad I don’t gamble”. For me, being reminded of gambling is just a reminder of the fact that I don’t like gambling. The same is true of some other ads too, they mostly serve to remind me that I define my personality in opposition to these things.

However, I have to presume that the effect is different for at least some other people.

wateralienabout 3 hours ago
People don't ignore anything. Everything is absorbed one way or another.
dude250711about 3 hours ago
Meta/Snap should make AR-glasses that block out ads.

If only they were not glorified ad companies themselves...

sligabout 3 hours ago
Well, they can block their competitors ads...
KellyCriterionabout 4 hours ago
- 9 ads per minute

- approx. 1 logo per each 6,7 seconds

lostloginabout 2 hours ago
How can it be that little? Showing any one player would get you more than 1 advert on screen the whole time.
Advertisement
justincormackabout 3 hours ago
TIL that Fifa made a movie that had the worst US box office of an movie ever, taking $918 in its opening weekend.
lostloginabout 3 hours ago
I wouldn’t put it past FIFA to make an award ceremony like the Oscar’s so that they could win it.

Like the FIFA peace prize.

hnisjafx40about 3 hours ago
Worked on the ad insertion side for a league feed once, and hydration breaks exist because they're the only reliably schedulable stop in a 45 minute half.
ekianjoabout 1 hour ago
which brand is non harmful?
holodukeabout 3 hours ago
A bit of topic. But noaways even when having no time at all you can instruct your AI to setup DNS adguard at home and get rid of all (most) ads on any site or app. It took me literaly 10 minutes to set it up.
shevy-javaabout 3 hours ago
If I were to watch FIFA-controlled content, I would be annoyed about this.

Also, if I were not use heroic ad-blockers. But as I neither watch FIFA's money laundering scheme nor its ad-pester business (all gets blocked here without mercy), it does not affect me in the slightest. Hopefully these clowns pay proper taxes to aid everyone, but I bet they park their money in offshore areas anway.

rob74about 3 hours ago
> Our findings reveal the sheer scale of branding embedded throughout tournament broadcasts, making exposure to unhealthy food, alcohol and gambling brands both omnipresent and unavoidable for viewers.

Do we really need an academic study to tell us that yes, there were ads on the sides of the football pitch at the World Cup, and that FIFA's choice of sponsors is questionable (but hey, questionable sponsors pay better than less questionable ones)?

probably_wrongabout 3 hours ago
To quote one of my teachers, "you may read the Constitution and think it's all obvious, that it's like writing a law that says people need air to live. The problem is, if you don't explicitly write it down someone may actually try to steal the air".

I didn't need someone to tell me that FIFA is full of ads. But studies like this provide a precise, measurable target to work with.

mitxelaabout 3 hours ago
also in the thread about OONI censorship measuring program people said they don't need a study to know China censors the internet
diego_moitaabout 2 hours ago
So what? Did anyone expect it to be different?

There is no "beautiful game". This show is only about manipulating people by exploiting their most basic and stupid instincts: aggression, tribalism, etc.

Sports entertainment has always been like that since the Coliseum and Circus Maximus were the main attractions in town.

The very expression "beautiful game" was born out of it. From the late 60s to the 70s, Brazil was one of the strongest contenders in the World Cup. They achieved that because they were able to select a roster of very skilled athletes among an huge national league. Because the country was ruled by an extremely nationalist military dictatorship, the government fully supported and promoted wrapping the country around the national team. Then the subservient sports press invented the name "jogo bonito" (beautiful game) to typify this game based on individual skills. From there, the propaganda term caught on. A similar thing happened in other countries ruled by dictatorships by then: Argentina, Chile, Portugal, Greece, Turkey,...

My point is that football's tribalism (like the Roman circus) was always at the service of some power. Before, it was autocratic nationalism in dictatorships. Now, it is just bets, alcohol and junk food.

expedition32about 2 hours ago
The 1978 world cup finale in Argentina was held right next to the torture center.

To put things into perspective when people whine about the American held world cup: nobody was thrown out of an airplane.

brendanfinanabout 3 hours ago
For many this was their first opportunity to invest in binary event contracts, so this is a win for financial liferacy
ricardobeatabout 3 hours ago
*literacy?

this is funny on multiple levels.