As A.I. makes law firms more efficient, clients ask: 'Where's my discount?'

mmooreds about 3 hours ago 38 commentsRead Article on nytimes.com

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dabinat•about 1 hour ago

My experience with lawyers is that if you need a legal document, they often have templates ready to go and will take 10 seconds to find & replace your company name into the document. I know this because they often don’t proofread it afterwards. They then charge you $1000 for that 10 seconds of work. Given that I have felt ripped off by many lawyers, I’m totally fine with that industry getting disrupted.

lizknope•about 1 hour ago

I know almost nothing about law firms. But for some other industry if you have 1000 competitors making similar products then companies will compete on price. If you reduce your prices then you will probably get more customers.

If you want to buy a new PC would you rather just have IBM making PCs and setting the price to whatever they want or a thousand different clone companies all competing on price, features, support, etc?

So some new law firm may want to disrupt the industry with a new model

mikert89•about 1 hour ago

Spoke with a banker at a well known investment bank in NYC last week. They told the law firm they want the fees cut in half or they walk. This is to a top 5 law firm. Lawyers are trying to charge the same prices, when both sides know they are working half the hours. This is even at the most premium top end, where an engagement bill can run up to 30 million.

lurk2•35 minutes ago

> Lawyers are trying to charge the same prices, when both sides know they are working half the hours.

An absurd claim presented without evidence.

nomilk•about 1 hour ago

I feel this is the case for a lot of industries (and even a lot of productivity-enhancers, beyond AI).

I remember a much slower change where software slowly ate away the work of property managers. Especially convenient was the ability for the tenant to perform the 6-monthly inspection remotely by uploading a half-dozen photos per room, taking just 15 minutes or so rather than waiting around for several hours for a physical meet up with the property manager. Software also allowed rent payments to be easily automated, collated and monitored.

But I don't think the number of property managers decreased, nor the price that landlords paid for their services.

edoceo•40 minutes ago

One thing you get from legal council is they'll be ready to defend and contracts or agreements they've made for you. Might be hard to find defense or offense on AI slop contracts. We've seen how AI does code, imagine that inconsistency in legal docs.

throwaway89864•about 1 hour ago

The issue is that communications with A.I. are not privileged like client-attorney. There was some judge that made that ruling.

Feels like a conflict of interests to me, I'd guess friends, neighbors, children and nieces of that judge enjoying their livelihood by charging for legal services. While legal services are now available under substantially lower rates and with a lot fewer conflicts of interests from A.I. providers...

true_religion•about 1 hour ago

They ruled that it's like a journal, or a tool like a search engine. This seems fair.

judge2020•about 1 hour ago

But, if you were to represent yourself, are your journal entries about said case privileged? Can the opposition call into evidence a binder of legal strategies you created that morning before court?

At what point does it become a 5th amendment issue? Maybe when we get AI in our corneas a la Black Mirror's The Entire History of You?

neya•about 1 hour ago

AI is just a tool like everything else. Are you also going to ask me for a discount because I used a powered screw driver?

mpalmer•about 1 hour ago

Yes, because I'm expecting you to compete.

Skyy93•about 2 hours ago

It's even worse with some physicians. When I got an MRI a year or two ago, getting an AI diagnosis cost extra. I am very positive about AI, but I can understand why people would be hesitant to pay extra when they hear about false positives and the unreliability of AI.

elicash•about 2 hours ago

Additionally, BCBS reports that hospitals are using AI to find ways to charge more money: https://www.bcbs.com/about-us/association-news/bcbsa-analysi...

> New analysis from the Blue Cross Blue Shield Association (BCBSA) finds that hospital systems are increasingly billing patient hospital stays as more medically complex, driving nearly $1 billion in additional healthcare costs in just two years. [...]

> More than 60% of hospital systems are now using AI-enabled technologies that can scan lab results and electronic records to identify secondary diagnoses, which could move a patient into a higher-severity, higher-reimbursement billing category.

hammock•about 1 hour ago

That…doesn’t sound like a bad thing for patients? That sounds like an increase in the standard of care. I’m not surprised a health insurer is mad about it though

mcoliver•about 2 hours ago

Always ask for your imaging data. I have never been denied it. Then take that and run it through your own analysis. Years ago I had some lab work done looking for a specific genetic marker that could explain something. While that was running I took my 23andme genome and cross referenced it with snpedia and had my answer (didn't have the marker) before my doctor did. She was blown away. This was 10 years ago. I'm guessing things have improved quite a bit.

fluidcruft•about 2 hours ago

Are there even any FDA labeled AI diagnostics for MRI? Just about everything I've seen is more things that are meant to help radiologists do things faster (and it's rather debatable whether they ultimately achieve that). The things I've seen gaining traction are very specific measurements (that are not themselves diagnostic) or things that improve workflow.

youniverse•about 2 hours ago

Yep one imaging center in LA is charging $45 out of pocket for the AI diagnosis.

dfxm12•about 2 hours ago

Setting aside the unreliability of AI, healthcare is already expensive and confusing. It's hard to know what's covered or not ahead of time and it sucks to feel nickel and dimed on something that is already so expensive, especially when you consider we are not trained medical professionals, so we can't really have an informed opinion on what this is really worth...

pkaye•about 2 hours ago

can you say no to an AI diagnosis in that case?

Skyy93•about 2 hours ago

Yes, sorry should have mentioned that. Of course the easy solution is then to simply decline.

Animats•about 1 hour ago

Law firms are going to be rolled over by AI. The inefficient law firms will be replaced. Like Expedia, etc. did to travel agents.

besterman23•about 1 hour ago

So… if AI is reducing time taken for billable actions, then that reduces the cost no? Unless it’s not actually reducing the time spent on said actions.

edg5000•about 2 hours ago

https://archive.is/dmUuD

mullingitover•about 2 hours ago

I’m just waiting for the AI judgments, followed by the flash trials, followed by the flash litigation DDOS attacks.

RachelF•about 1 hour ago

Australia already has AI tax judgements:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robodebt_scheme

disantlor•about 2 hours ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL2RLTmqG4w

gedy•about 1 hour ago

That's basically like devs being 10x with AI - they ain't getting a raise for that..

LastTrain•about 2 hours ago

Well we’ve spent over a trillion on infrastructure and we’re only just getting started so good luck getting your fucking discount

ktallett•about 2 hours ago

I'm sure many law companies have a trillion spare to invest in data centres. I don't think anyone would be upset if AI broke the standard charges for lawyer fees.